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OfflineKulkulcan
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Registered: 05/04/16
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Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it?
    #23496772 - 07/31/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Here's a hypothetical PF scenario for you:

Let's say you followed recommended procedures assiduously with the following parameters:

Mix up a medium in the following proportions, even though it seemed like the medium was just a tad dry as a result:
• 1 cup brown rice flour
• 2 cup vermiculite
• 1 tbsp gypsum
• 1 cup water

Put the medium in half-pint wide-mouth and 4-ounce regular-mouth canning jars with proper lids and rings and appropriately-sized synthetic filter discs. (Each lid had four 1/8" inoculation holes evenly spaced around the circumference of the lid, about halfway between the center and rim, as well as one 1/4" to 3/8" ventilation hole in the center of each lid.) Screw the lids on tightly.

Autoclave the jars for an hour and let cool.

Inoculate the jars heavily (well over 1 cc per half pint jar) with B+ from a reputable source (although the spores tended to clump together in the syringes, which had to be shaken VERY hard to disperse them before injecting).

Store jars in a terrarium in the dark at a constant 34°C (86°F).

Now let's say that, after SEVEN WEEKS, colonization of the jars varies from only 40% to 80%. No apparent contamination, except for one 4-ounce UN-inoculated jar (used as a control) which presented gray mold and was subsequently discarded.

I have two questions:

• Why is colonization taking so long? (Was the medium too dry? Should the humidity in the terrarium have been held at 90%, despite the medium being in sealed jars?)
• Would it be a good idea to keep waiting for full colonization? Or would it be better to multiply to spawn bags soon, before contamination DOES occur?

Just wondering.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #23496810 - 07/31/16 07:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Spores could be dead. Never expand anything that hasn't fully colonized, there could be a good reason it didn't colonize (or germinate). Should use as little spores as possible, a few drops is enough. That cuts down on contamination and stretches the syringe.


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Offlinemindbentempire
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23496879 - 07/31/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Doesn't mycelium growth slow down dramatically at such a high temperature? (86F)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: mindbentempire]
    #23496902 - 07/31/16 08:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It does. But the real problem is that bacteria speeds up at those temps.


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23497193 - 07/31/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Op you have been reading old info. get a new syringe from a good source, make new jars. Mix water with the verm first then add the brf, no more than .25 cc in each hole and flame between each jar do not wipe with alcohol after flaming. Store jars on a shelf in your house at room temp.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


Edited by NDStepp84 (07/31/16 10:13 PM)


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OfflineKulkulcan
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23497200 - 07/31/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

• So what is the correct temperature?

• Is humidity in the terrarium an issue, with the medium being in jars?

• If growth is slow and there's no apparent contamination, wouldn't it be indicated to just continue, but at a lower, correct temperature?


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23497218 - 07/31/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)


Mid to low 70f, if the jars are at a constant 86f then expect the internal temps of them to be pushing near 90f during colonization. You do not need to worry about humidity levels while they are colonizing in a sterile container.

Transferring uncolonized PF jars to a spawn bag? Never heard of such, but that's not a good idea to keep it short. :facepalm3:


--------------------
"Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #23497219 - 07/31/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Best all around temp is room temp. 70-80 is pretty standard tho as cool as 60 can work, it's just slower. Surface humidity of the substrate is what's important. Think microclimate. Slow or stalled growth can be for a few different reasons. Higher temps encourage bacteria which can stall a jar. If the bacteria is started you won't see an improvement just by lowering the temp. Post a pic if your worried.


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OfflineKulkulcan
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23497252 - 07/31/16 10:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Sounds like you can both agree on 70°F to say 77°F. Can't see how it would hurt to stay the course; maybe things would speed up.


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #23497263 - 07/31/16 10:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes on the temp range, no on keeping them at that constant temp of 80+. Natural temp variance is better. Would you want to sit in a room at 86f for week's?  Incubators or anything that controls higher than normal room temp is not needed.


--------------------
"Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."


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OfflineKulkulcan
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23497636 - 08/01/16 05:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So do you think that varying the temperature between 70°F and 77°F would be better than a constant temperature somewhere in that range?


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Offlinemindbentempire
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #23497639 - 08/01/16 05:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If I were you. I would stop stressing about this and just let the cakes sit in room temperature.
Yes, its hard to just let go.  But have some patience.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: mindbentempire]
    #23497740 - 08/01/16 07:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

68F is perfect :shrug:


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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23497762 - 08/01/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i both colonize and fruit at 68F.. my house stays around 68F, always. and mine do just fine.


--------------------
-The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.


-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.


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Offlinefungi-funguy
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: mupetmower]
    #23545526 - 08/15/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ah that makes sense i just started growing a mushroom and it is growing slower than the other mushrooms I grow. That helps!


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OfflineKulkulcan
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: fungi-funguy]
    #23608658 - 09/03/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

After dropping the temperature from 85-86° to 68-73°F, some jars developed a little faster than before, but still quite slowly. Now after TWELVE WEEKS, most seem to have halted completely (but most are at least not visibly contaminated).

Is it possible that some permanent harm had been done by the high temperature, and that starting over with the correct temperature range from the outset would produce far better results?

Also, I seem to remember from years ago that using a different medium, namely quinoa and coir (with one or two supplements, I think maybe maltose, if that's possible, and maybe a pH adjuster), produced excellent results EXCEEDINGLY quickly, like in maybe a week or 2, I think.

Comments?


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Why so long to colonize PF jars, and what to do about it? [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #23608683 - 09/03/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Colonizing that high increases the chance for anaerobic bacteria to form.  If it has, it would explain why your jars have stalled.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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