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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: not long term material [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23870828 - 11/26/16 11:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

See I don't even think said "personality disorder" is even really a disorder. Just another personality type that is poorly understood. In western zodiac I am a cusp of Libra and Scorpio. They are conflicting personalities in some aspects. And Scorpio is sometimes considered to be a two sided coin on its own.

Feels a bit... Assholish to say... But I don't feel like it's me but everyone else. I've taken to camping by myself the last few years and the difference to my personality while I'm away is incredible. But within a few days when I come back my thoughts and mainframe shifts. Its more than emotion, it is my entire perspective. And I've manipulated that a variety of times but it seems that, so long as I am actively participating as a normal person within society I revert into... Something I don't like all that much. Something that doesn't function very well.

I don't know how to explain it.
No amount of positive thinking changes it.
I just feel like life is wrong. People are wrong. Society is wrong. And it drives me nuts.

2016 has been a particularly rough year. There was alot of family issues and while I think I've dealt with it fairly well it triggered some things in my head that go back to an abusive relationship I'd once had. It's so hard to tell how much that is influencing my perspective.


There's a native American story I like alot. I'll post it here when I get on my computer. But the short version is within everyone there is two wolves. One good and one bad. Whichever one wins is the one that gets fed.
Life has helped feed the bad wolf more than the good. My personality is not bad, but the bad traits that come with it are exacerbated by the strain of my environment. I've never felt free to really just be me. People and their expectations and what I feel they deserve and think, constantly having to attune myself to others while also trying to be myself is... I know most everyone does this but it's fucking stupid and it drives me nuts. I barely feel like my thoughts are my own. That I'm constantly being manipulated by others. Unconsciously but its true. I'm so sensitive. That's why I've wanted to be alone as often as not. I don't feel like myself. I'm never myself. And it sucks.

No one seems to understand that I can't be myself and be accepted. I work full time and having to repress my personality 8+ hours every day manipulates my perspective. People seem to think you can just switch off everything when you get home. I've never been able to do this. I just feel trapped by life right now. And I have for most of my life.


To me it seems pretty obvious that in order for things to get better in my head I need to feed the good wolf. And it can't live off hollow fillers, it needs something real and substantial.. My whole life needs an overhaul. I need to be free. I need a new job and a new place to live. I need new friends too. A new girlfriend? I don't know. I've left everything in life behind before and ended up in a worse situation.

Point is what is inside feels wrong because the outside feels wrong.

I don't want to leave her because my thinking is skewed. I don't want to stay with her if I really do need to move on.


Meh. We've been together for about a year and a half. We're 'friends' for 2 years before. We share alot of interests but in some ways it's night and day. It seems that our conflicting parts seem more stark to me now than earlier in our relationship. We both have a hard time communicating. And we've worked hard on it. But it's still probably our biggest problem. I feel like there are things I cant say to her. And I'm certain there is much she doesn't tell me.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23870984 - 11/27/16 01:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, this world sucks, thats what i was saying earlier about psychological disorders.

Do not bow down


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23872718 - 11/27/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
See I don't even think said "personality disorder" is even really a disorder. Just another personality type that is poorly understood.



I do agree, but seeing that the love of my life was a classic borderline, which I've gone to massive lengths to verify, it is certainly a state of being that is definable and verifiable by a great many traits.

Apologies if I'm way off the main topic, but I've been out of the loop most of the week with illness, and have had several emotional and situational bombshells dropped on me since, so haven't had the the time to properly catch up on the threads here.

FWIW, one of my wisest friends who is an expert in developmental psychology recently told me that any kind of childhood abuse is almost certain to lead to a 'personality disorder'. Apparently there are four main archetypes, but borderline is the only one I have yet studied in depth.

I'll add more once I get the time to read through this thread properly.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: not long term material [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #23873221 - 11/27/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It was a side note by mentioning that the BPD classification will burden a person with a type of complex which exasperates the condition, IMO. I feel that the diagnosis is worse than the disease, awareness being a great treatment. 

There certainly are patterns of thought and an inability to regulate emotion, tendencies to self sabotage by ineffective coping mechanisms.  Recently it has been decided that with self work, this condition can be cured.

Absolutely it will impact the qualities and conditions of a relationship.  But the best thing someone who has recieved this title can do is not buy into the details.


Ms. Crumbs,
It sounds like you've already come to terms with the reality of the situation.  Don't second-guess your gut feeling.  But if there is a possibility that your mentality is what is sealing the deal, perhaps that is something to mull over.

My belief is that our perceptions will paraphrase the true story.  An unconscious bias.  If possible, try to objectively view as if a third party on the outside looking in. 


I have a rendition of this on the side of my frig:


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: not long term material [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23873248 - 11/27/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I like that quote, I have it with a little more setting. Hits harder this way for me:

Quote:

An old man and his grandson are sitting by the fire outside the tepee, wrapped in furs and gazing into the leaping flames. High on a snowy ridge, a wolf howls at the moon and another answers from far away. Soon after, the old man removes the pipe from his mouth.
‘Grandson,’ he says. ‘There are two wolves inside you. One is white and the other is black.’
‘What are they doing there, Grandfather?’ asks the wide-eyed boy.
‘They are fighting each other,’ says the old man.
The boy considers this, then asks, ‘Why are they white and black?’
‘The white one is your love, your peace and your truth. The black one is your fear, your anger and your lies.’
The fire crackles and sparks flare in the night. The wolf on the ridge howls again and the old man puffs contentedly on his pipe. Finally, the boy says, ‘Which one will win, Grandfather?’
‘Ah,’ says the old man, removing the pipe once more. ‘The one that wins is the one that you feed.’





--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: not long term material [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23873312 - 11/27/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yes that's the one I have, couldn't find the full version.  Not sure why anyone would condense it :um:


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: not long term material [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #24412106 - 06/17/17 08:44 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

My entire family, at least on my mom's side, is streaked with mental illness. Much of it undiagnosed and untreated.


More when I can talk about heavy shit without throwing up.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24412306 - 06/17/17 10:37 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Tell me about it.  Whenever you're ready:sun:


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24413430 - 06/17/17 07:48 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
My entire family, at least on my mom's side, is streaked with mental illness. Much of it undiagnosed and untreated.


More when I can talk about heavy shit without throwing up.







that's how my father's side is.  one of his aunts was forcibly committed and held for years, undergoing lots of electroshock, couple of others that should've had some form of outside help.  father himself was very manic, and an alcoholic to boot. 

officially diagnosed bi-polar (manic) through blood-work, but thankfully my doctor didn't put it in my medical history, as i was young at the time.  i've refused meds and done fairly well, but i have moments i feel like i'm going to burst or rip in two from it.  cannabis helped a lot, but even the last few years it wasn't working well, despite diet being well tuned in.  now i'm off the cannabis and noticing more manic thought-processes coupled with growing depression.  being physically active has so far proven to be the best thing for it, as it occupies my mind, helps dopamine production, and tires me


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: not long term material [Re: demiu5]
    #24414791 - 06/18/17 10:49 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah considering the shit they used to fo to the mentally ill it may be for the best they haven't been treated.

But as I've grown to have an understanding of psychology and human relations (ahahaha the irony in this) I've noticed that everyone in my mom's side of the family consistently has trouble expressing their emotions. Everyone in my immediate family, my brothers and my father, has trouble with expressing their feelings.

I believe part of this is inborn, because of the complexity of said feelings (I'll get into this in a moment), but part of it definitely comes from being raised by people who not only refuse to express deep personal pain or deep intimate love but also refuse to accept and acknowledge this in others. To them it is as if doing such things... Well THAT person is crazy.


Growing up in an environment that is fueled by few emotions aside from anger and spite... I know all to well how much that can fuck you up. My mom has always been VERY spiteful to her parents for how they treated her. And now, now that grandma has had strokes and can no longer care for herself, and grandpa is literally on his deathbed (they doubt he'll make it through the night) she feels like a huge piece of shit for all the shit she's talked about them. She seems incapable of understanding the concept of karma. In a matter of days I've watched her from being suicidal with self hatred to resentful to my god mom (grandpa's gf) who has been bed ridden for 5 years. She blames her now.

There seems to not only be a repression but a consistent evasion of empathy and personal responsibility. Not unknown up to this time, my mom cannot take being wrong, she can barely take thinking you're implying she is wrong. My grandma, my mom's mom, well she's calmed down alot in age (not that my mom recognised this until the strokes) but I remember how she'd cut into my uncle and my mom. She has a very backhanded way of offering criticism. Almost like she doesn't even mean to say it. In a way, I understand, that is more infuriating than a straight up insult.

I've seen the things that happens if you go against the grain or if you follow it too closely. Learning to tip toe around my family has made me unusually good at getting to the heart of matters and saying what needs to be said without implying offense. Though in recent years I've lost alot of my patience and instead present alot of the bite that is unfortunately characteristic of my family.


My grandpa is well-known for this bite. I have had an odd affinity for him largely because of this. He is a hard man, but a good man. And a heavy alcoholic and 2 pack a day smoker for 40 years. As a child I first figured out that Santa wasn't real because Santa Claus had a suspiciously red face, just like grandpa did. He would dress up every Christmas with a sack of presents and come through the door with a big loud HO HO HO when we were little. Here's where I need to fight not to cry and keep writing. ...He never saved his language for us, except as Santa, and I'm pretty sure I've developed my sailors mouth from him. But he was always good to me and my brothers. Hard, and firm, but good.

His own kids? well I could go on about the divorce between my grandparents and how many times my grandpa's alcoholism almost killed him. But he left shortly after my mom was born, and was out of the picture for 10 years. Being raised exclusively by my bitter resentful bottled grandmother and no father, I think, is what screwed my mom and uncle up more than anything. My aunt was born late to another man that stuck around until his death. Though she has had physical problems from being born to a woman in her late 40s and a man in his late 50s... She is the most rational and empathetic person on that side of my family.



Even if old school treatments weren't so fucked up I don't think any of my family would have gotten them. Because they do not ask for help when they really need it. They'll ask for stupid little favors and borrow money when they don't need it... My grandpa got cancer a year ago, if not more, and did not go to the doctor until he had lost most of his weight and could barely even walk anymore, could not care for my god mom anymore. He still tried. My uncle saw him deteriorate and said nothing, did nothing, and I think it's because he's deluded himself. He insisted up until a few days ago when they confirmed it as advanced metastatic lung cancer that it was probably pneumonia. You can literally see one of the tumors that grew up out of his lung and around his collar bone.

My uncle only got on medication for his anger issues when he almost lost his job. After he lost his wife and home and became tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Same with my mom. They'll never pay off their debt. I will inherit this to. I myself was forced to choose between the years of medication and therapy or the psych ward after my parents found I've been slicing myself up. My brothers only after their drug habits got completely out of control.

There is not only this irrational denial of help, one I have inherited, but there is also a denial of reality. It goes beyond not wanting to listen, and not wanting to see, it often goes into being unable to see. I think that's why there is so much drug and alcohol use in the family. Because it's easier to convince yourself of the reality you want and to ignore the reality you don't want to see.

And it is also an attempt to hide much of reality to others. It is not until recent years, that my mom's alcoholism has gotten out of control, that I've begun to understand most of this, of the how and the why. No one told me these things. Even when I asked. I'm not sure why. I wonder sometimes if I do the same, with how hard I hold the secrets of others as well as my own.

Doing this alone could be considered a mental illness. I don't think in and of itself it is.. I think the mental illness manifests after years upon years of doing this. I wish I had realized much of this before I lost my patience with people. Before the anger, the bite, bubbles up. But, as much as I want and have wanted to help, I don't think I could have done anything. Attempting to console my mother all of this, sacrificing bits of my own emotional and physical health only to see few results. No the only thing that brought her from the brink was the church and being reunited with an old pastor. Whom she thinks is leading the world to the 2nd coming or something.

My mom and my grandma both tend to think the world is full of evil people. Yet there are a few people that they think are angels in flesh. At times at least. Nothing keeps them from falling in their eyes and becoming one of these people they resent. And it's not often reasonable things that cause this.


This is a trademark symptom of what they call borderline personality disorder. My mom and aunt believe my grandma and uncle are bipolar. And they might be. But the more I look the more I see. Traits of narcissism, traits of bipolar, traits of borderline, traits of any of the delusional disorders.



One of my worst fears is growing up to be like them. I've inherited my father's severe anxiety. I've inherited my mother's extreme feelings and a flip-flop ove them. I've inherited both of their inability to properly accept and express their feelings.
I try not to resent my mother, as she has resented hers, but it is hard. I understand. I sympathize.. I empathize. But she is one of the most frustrating people I have ever had to deal with. She cannot be wrong but she will imply any number of things you're doing is wrong. I know, too, I have inherited this strong sense of right and wrong. I forgave much more easily in years past though. I accepted that others might be right when I am not. But... More and more I feel like I am slowly becoming like my mom and my grandma. Maybe my uncle. I dunno. I've generally tried to avoid that bastard.


Years of feeling love and being unable to express it... I get snapped at one time by my romantic partner and I immediately start to close up. I was trying to work through that with my current partner but... I suppose I'm as much a frustrating person to deal with as my mother is. I've been snapped at alot. And not necessarily without reason. It is that difficulty in expressing feeling and keeping thoughts and opinions rational. Reasonable. Logical.



How does one have both feeling and logic?
I think my family has spent generations trying to figure out this balance. And generally failing.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24415323 - 06/18/17 02:52 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

The other night I was trying to console my mom and it's a good example of... Well all of our problems. Of projection and misinterpretation.


A little back story, my dad was caught having an affair about 2 years ago. I don't blame him. My mom largely neglected him. They fought often. And by fight I mean my mom blaming and accusing him of not doing good enough. With us, with her, with the cleaning, whatever. And him simply trying to defend himself. My mom wasn't drinking much then. She has been on alot of medication though. For years she would get off work, eat something, over eating usually, and go to bed. She never went out. She never did anything.

And there's a whole lot of shit to that but both my parents were depressed and repressing it as much as they could. And it came to a rather violent head. After 25 years.


Anyway, the other night she tells my older brother "the last 2 months have been hard." (with my grandma and grandpa, her parents, being ill.) and he said "I know. The last 6 months have been hard for us." us being his wife and him. She told me it as he had said "well the last 6 months have been hard for us." in a scoffing tone. And proceeded to tell me that is the words of someone who hasn't known loss.

She said that if my brother keeps going down this path he will lose her. I don't know why but she believes my brothers' partners to be these angels in flesh.


My brother has been working himself to death. Getting 5 hours of sleep trying to renovate a house. And I'm sure fighting with his wife often. She wants him to take a break when he feels he can't but she also wants him to do more work.


This is what I mean. When you try to remind her she's not alone, that you're struggling too, she thinks you're trying to downplay her pain. I think in part it's the repression and in part it's because her parents did the same thing to her. I feel it is a long fucked up cycle.


And this in particular I think is a projection of what her father has done and in large part how she reacted to my father's affair is a prokection of that. She feels that my dad neglected her and denied her affection when it was largely she that pushed him away. They never slept in the same bed and she claims it's because my dad would kick her in his sleep. I have no idea if this is the truth but either way I think it was her that pushed him away. Especially with how she talks about my dad when they were young.


I am terrified of being like this. I've known other people that do this. That push people away with their actions and then believe that they are the ones that did wrong. I fear being blind to that reality. To the point that I did not doubt people at all. I thought the best of everyone and blamed myself if anything bad happened. Which lead me to being raped and abused and taken advantage of many times.


I don't feel any of us are bitter without reason. I am not distrustful without reason. I have not lost my patience with people without reason. I have been tried again and again and again. And now I know it's not worth it to take people's shit. I know that I cannot take all the fault. But... I am more than a little afraid about what is happening to my mind.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24416974 - 06/19/17 06:42 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I slept in, so only got through half of the first post you made. Will respond further after work.

First off, I'm very sorry about your grandpa.

Ironically, my mom is loosing her cousin to cancer (surprisingly made it through the night but not much longer). I've been shacking up here, I'm semi-certain she's loosing it. There's malpractice involved and the pattern I see that pertains to your situation is the desperation to blame.  That's a part of grief, just the beginning but the most volatile. Sounds like this is happening with your mom?

Another thing I feel the need to comment on, is the aspect of codependent relationships. I also grew up in a fairly hostile environment, and can relate to inheriting the 'bite' that results from this.  My family does not know how to communicate their upsets, which has always led to bottled resentment and the explosion of anger I frequently witnessed or fell victim to, and would later in life repeat. The tip toeing that you speak of is all too familiar. Those eggshells formulate resentment by theirselves. But what resulted for myself was codependency- absorbing my mother's projections and feeling responsible for her emotions.  Case in point, the last couple days.. I've only seen her this bad when her mother died, also due to malpractice.  The screaming at the top of the lungs, falling asleep and waking up wailing, hitting/breaking things, I claim it as my own, and due to my empathy, have been breaking down, too.

Is it possible that the dynamics between your mother and you might be playing into all of this?
One of the most liberating things for me was moving out, reprogramming my mind. It's easy, once you're removed from the environment, to notice what is HER shit and what is your own, and separate accordingly. It's nothing short of conditioning, and its toxic. 

I suspect things will settle down tremendously for you once you move out.  In the meantime, it might be helpful to recognize her ills from yours... and its almost seamless.  The past couple of days have been exhausting for me, there's a fine line to walk in comforting a grieving mother. Of course you would do anything to take that pain away, but surrendering to it won't help anyone.

I'm sorry if I'm off base with anything.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: not long term material [Re: birdeatingspider] * 2
    #24418772 - 06/19/17 07:09 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

There's a lot of dynamics at play here. Tbh this sounds like a highly detrimental place to be living, let alone grow up within.  Hearing some of the backstory, I can totally relate, almost word for word. Its all connected.. the situation you're in is a culmination of all that has transpired. Sadly this hand you've been dealt seems to of happened to you, not by you.

To a degree, genetics, epigenetics, and early childhood setting will factor into the person we become, right? It would make sense though, that an unintended outcome can be procured from this: Becoming the exact opposite of the parent with behaviour you despise. Case and point: When one of my mother's traits is brought to my attention as my own, you'll be certain I shut up and listen.  Because at the end of the day, I'm petrified that I will be her before I know. There's a lot of her ugly that I absorbed before knowing what projection was, before I knew that being tangled up was dysfunctional and unhealthy.

From how you describe, it sounds as though you've taken a similar approach. It hard to be patient when an all or nothing, my way or the highway, raging bull is in control.
Still, it's something to strive for. As Winnie the Pooh said: “If the person you are talking to doesn’t appear to be listening, be patient. It may simply be that he has a small piece of fluff in his ear.”

You're a smart Cookie. As an observation, you seen not only intelligent but mindful and diplomatic in approach. Is it a possibility that a. You're over thinking it or b.your hostility is a by product of your environment that will greatky improve/resolve once you move out?

I know my mas and I have a much better relationship when I'm not living there as we simply arent as enmeshed.  It took a great deal of effort to eradicate the majority of her wretchedness.  If I am not extremely mindful (hey youre starting to loose your temper, take a deep breath and be aware) that same nastiness ensues from me.

Tl;dr
Practice patience
Hold your family and yourself accountable
Be responsible for yourself and only self.
You're not alone


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24419130 - 06/19/17 10:00 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
The other night I was trying to console my mom and it's a good example of... Well all of our problems. Of projection and misinterpretation.


A little back story, my dad was caught having an affair about 2 years ago. I don't blame him. My mom largely neglected him. They fought often. And by fight I mean my mom blaming and accusing him of not doing good enough. With us, with her, with the cleaning, whatever. And him simply trying to defend himself. My mom wasn't drinking much then. She has been on alot of medication though. For years she would get off work, eat something, over eating usually, and go to bed. She never went out. She never did anything.

And there's a whole lot of shit to that but both my parents were depressed and repressing it as much as they could. And it came to a rather violent head. After 25 years.


Anyway, the other night she tells my older brother "the last 2 months have been hard." (with my grandma and grandpa, her parents, being ill.) and he said "I know. The last 6 months have been hard for us." us being his wife and him. She told me it as he had said "well the last 6 months have been hard for us." in a scoffing tone. And proceeded to tell me that is the words of someone who hasn't known loss.

She said that if my brother keeps going down this path he will lose her. I don't know why but she believes my brothers' partners to be these angels in flesh.


My brother has been working himself to death. Getting 5 hours of sleep trying to renovate a house. And I'm sure fighting with his wife often. She wants him to take a break when he feels he can't but she also wants him to do more work.


This is what I mean. When you try to remind her she's not alone, that you're struggling too, she thinks you're trying to downplay her pain. I think in part it's the repression and in part it's because her parents did the same thing to her. I feel it is a long fucked up cycle.


And this in particular I think is a projection of what her father has done and in large part how she reacted to my father's affair is a prokection of that. She feels that my dad neglected her and denied her affection when it was largely she that pushed him away. They never slept in the same bed and she claims it's because my dad would kick her in his sleep. I have no idea if this is the truth but either way I think it was her that pushed him away. Especially with how she talks about my dad when they were young.


I am terrified of being like this. I've known other people that do this. That push people away with their actions and then believe that they are the ones that did wrong. I fear being blind to that reality. To the point that I did not doubt people at all. I thought the best of everyone and blamed myself if anything bad happened. Which lead me to being raped and abused and taken advantage of many times.


I don't feel any of us are bitter without reason. I am not distrustful without reason. I have not lost my patience with people without reason. I have been tried again and again and again. And now I know it's not worth it to take people's shit. I know that I cannot take all the fault. But... I am more than a little afraid about what is happening to my mind.






i'm not saying this is any kind of a "solution", but sometimes one simply has to say "fuck you" to their [dysfunctional] family [members] and cut all ties.  your health probably complicates that situation.  and it's certainly never an easy thing to do, as love (but not like) complicates the situation even further. 


all i know is people are shitty, selfish and shitty, myself included.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: not long term material [Re: demiu5] * 1
    #24419192 - 06/19/17 10:33 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

It's been a very long night and I'm very sore so I'll try to make this short.

First, thank you for sharing Spider. I think you are a rather intelligent person yourself. I've felt a relation to you for a while, perhaps because of our shared bits of personality and experience. It is rare I don't find myself agreeing with you. And even more rare that your posts don't invoke some thought. So thank you for sharing much.
I am also sorry to hear about your cousin and that malpractice iis involved. For a 2nd time at that. :hug: I'm sorry


I think I had the right idea to gtfo as soon as I legally could. I tried to get emancipated but I couldn't. On the day after my 18th birthday I moved out and in with my ex fiance. Well I... Learned alot from the experience. Mostly because I fucked it up so much.

I told my family that if they tried to contact me I would ignore it, if they tried to come to me I would call the police, I told them I never wanted to see them again. It hurt alot to go and do that but I hoped I would be happier. I was not. My drug use was out of control, I didn't have work, I dealed a little bit, I got involved with gang shit, I robbed people out of desperation, I set others up to get gang banged, I went without food more often than not, the money I got often went to more drugs, often more for my fiance than myself, I had a loaded gun held to my head and kicked out of my own home. I attempted suicide a little under 2 years after I moved out. Largely out of guilt, and largely because I abandoned my family and, more importantly, myself. I realized how incredibly badly I fucked up. I left my ex and her fuck buddy (our roommate, long story) and was homeless for a little while. My older brother, in large part, is the reason I got back in touch with my family. He is a good man and I look up to him. No matter what he did when we were kids. My parents took me back in.


The two biggest things I learned was I cannot leave a bad situation just to run off to another bad situation.
And I cannot go against who I am. And I am loyal to a fault. My family, fucked up as they are, deserves some degree of my loyalty. Despite everything they have done alot for me and they love me.

Cutting them off will not leave them any less fucked up. And I will be fucked up regardless. Besides that, the guilt would eat me alive.



I did buy a house, back in April. A small old farmhouse that needs alot of work. It is not in living condition right now. But I have an acre of land and many acres more of uninhabited woodland surrounding it. I cannot wait to move. But I must. My brother assured me he would help me fix up a shitty old home so I bought a shitty old home. But like I said he's been working himself to death at his daytime job. He too can be kind to a fault and got completely fucked over by his workers.
So... I'm giving him time. I've offered to help but sadly there's not alot I can do and honestly I've had my hands full trying to make home feel okay. Trying not to lose my mom. Trying not to lose my partner and my mind.


I am saving up. If big bro can't get started near the end of summer I'll hire someone else to start knocking shit out.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24419654 - 06/20/17 06:04 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

That made me really happy to read, ty! 
Hearing your history a bit, just know nothing you say could influence my view of you. :hug:

I also learned the hard way that you can't run from your problems- they follow. Further, I know all too well the territory of emancipation- I moved out at 17 with my abusive partner.. certainly the worst period of my life.
Like you, I have a big bro that I adore. As a matter of fact, I attribute him to raising me and teaching me right from wrong, not my father. I could gush about him all day.

Is it possible to appeal to your brother, cite the urgency of your move. Let him in on some of the current struggles with your grieving mom and health issues.  Perhaps offer to recruit workers from craigslist that he could in turn fund?

When I'm around my mom as I am now, I actively in my head discern her shit from mine. It's a skill that will lift the burden and curtain that is your mom's emotion.

Maybe focus on that place between engrossed with them and disowning them. Fam isn't so bad when held at arms length. It takes developed skill and mastery to achieve healthy boundaries, especially with blood relation.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24420864 - 06/20/17 03:23 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

My family, fucked up as they are, deserves some degree of my loyalty.







why?


love is not abusive.  do they love you (more focusing on your mom here) or do they love to use you as a reason/excuse/method to vent their dissatisfaction with their station?  love is not some thing to be held over one's head in order to get what one wants.



Quote:

How does one have both feeling and logic?





it's difficult, if not nearing impossibility.  these things come from two different places in the brain.  i favor logic over emotion, in most circumstances.  while logic may not lead to the highs that emotion does, logic tends not to deliver one into the lows that emotion-based reactions often do


some might consider me cold, verging on sociopathic (non-violent), but that's on them, not me.  i do my best to not concern myself with others, and limit [in-person] interaction as much as possible beyond what is needed [to survive]


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: not long term material [Re: demiu5]
    #24422466 - 06/20/17 11:42 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

How does one have both feeling and logic?




it's difficult, if not nearing impossibility.




For me, I think a middle way is ideal. Emotions are the main drivers of my dreams and relationships, but they must be tempered and kept under watch by logic. One without the other seems pointless and ineffective.


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Re: not long term material [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #24423278 - 06/21/17 09:22 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

"I'm gonna kill your god mom."
"why?"
"because she won't let him go. She said "I wish he weren't on so many pain meds so I could talk to him." So she wants him to be in pain and suffer. She's not his wife, he's MY daddy, I will cut her off from decisions if she doesn't stop."
"stop what?"
"she needs to tell him it's okay to go. That's the only reason he's hanging on."

And I told my mom I don't think it's really my god mom's fault. And she proceeded to tell me of all the times shes seen someone on their deathbed told it's okay to go and they pass away that night.

Nah it's not just about having someone to blame. It's 100% emotion and 0% logic. Doesn't help my mom has been getting shitfaced drunk, which is the main reason I can't begin to say anything. To her my god mom is a vile selfish woman that nagged my grandpa for 20 years and ultimately killed him. And yes she did nag him alot, they did fight alot, but I'm pretty sure age and 40 years of smoking is what killed him. He's a tough man, I think he'd hang on even if my god mom didn't need him. So I fail to see why it would be her fault he's not dead yet.



Honestly if she does follow through with her threats to cut my god mom off then I'll have to... Bust her shitty little bubble... So to speak. I won't blame her for my dad's depression, severe anxiety, high blood pressure, cholesterol, and diabetes even though the 'logic' is the same. My dad drank two liters of Coca-Cola a day for years trying to work 2 jobs at times and do things with us kids and trying to take care of the house. I know in large part he was reckless with his health because of how my mom treated him. My mom thinks my grandpa smoked so much because of how my godmother treated him.

That comparison might have her going back to being suicidal though. But I cannot let her inability to properly deal with pain to destroy what little bit my godmother has left.


People like that have a with me or against me mentality. It.... If it has to be that way because they make it that way then it has to be that way.


When my uncle killed himself last easter she accused him of being selfish. When my dad said he wished he had reached out more that he was being selfish because that kind of thinking makes it about himself (???) and it should be about his family.

When the family dog died last August all she could talk about was how she couldn't deal with anymore pain and told me she wanted to be cremated and shit.


I think it's all some kind of odd projection because she cannot face being wrong, she cannot accept that she is being selfish so she's projecting selfishness onto everyone else.



I am not abused. I have been abused by people who also completely lack the rationality of intention. People that think everything is some kind of personal affront. And use it as an excuse to mistreat you. If anyone is being abused it's my father.

My problem is being in a toxic environment that triggers the remaining demons of that abuse.


I think holding them at arms length would be best. But I will not cut them off. Much of the shit that has happened in my life is because of my decisions, not their mistreatment. I will not be my mother. I will not place blame on the shoulders it does not belong on. I will not make them out to be evil people just because they make my life a little harder. They are good people. They're just fucked up. As am I. And none is without reason.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Re: not long term material [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24423312 - 06/21/17 09:37 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Making this shit 10x harder on me though.

Which, in large part, is why I pretty much immediately called it off with my partner when she got frustrated with me and told me how hard it is to be positive when I'm "always like this."


The whole reason I have been with her is because I thought she could deal with me. I've leaned on her alot. I feel bad for that. But right now I really don't fucking need anything else to feel bad about. The last 2 years have been hard as shit. And I know it's not fair and not right to constantly be learning on someone. But if I can't then all there will be is that bite. And that will end us in an even worse way.


We talked. We made up. Kinda. But I still feel like it was the right thing to do. It was just excruciating to do it. I still hurt for having done it. On top of everything else I don't need myself being suicidal. Unlike my mother I won't wail about it and threaten it. I'll just do it.

I'm probably the worst bottler. And I've tried really hard to work on that. Which I think is why I lost all my friends last year. Told them too much. Too often. All being open seems to do is drag others down with me. And that idea has always been intolerable for me. I'd always rather be the one to suffer over someone I care about.

Been working on that too. But everyone getting fed up with me all around the same time kinda... Well it really fed that bad wolf.


I do not think my partner will be able to deal with me in the long term. And I won't be able to deal with her if I'm constantly upsetting her with my own stupid problems.

I don't really have anyone else right now though. I don't think I could take a break up right now. Unless she did it. Which would still hurt like all fucking hell. But it would at least absolve me of some guilt. And I would know, 100%, that it is the right thing.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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