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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
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Moabfighter said: Also OP, that's the best cake pinset I've ever seen. I've had kinda similar, but they grew to be quite small. Curious to see if yours get larger than a few inches before maturing.
He might need to bottom water to support the pinset. That's why most great pinsets on cakes stub out. Even totally waterlogged cakes can't support a big pinset like that. The water needs to be provided at a rate the network can handle it.
What's the best way to bottom water a cake?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Set the cake on a saucer and add a bit of water, leave it overnight. Drain off what isn't absorbed by morning and repeat in the evening.
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Nobler Hino
a dojo and a forge?!


Registered: 08/29/15
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Deep Ellum
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Wicked cake brah
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   "The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.” – Maria Sabina
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Set the cake on a saucer and add a bit of water, leave it overnight. Drain off what isn't absorbed by morning and repeat in the evening.
Thanks. I thought so. There's now a real estate crisis in the FC.
Saucers are bigger than anticipated!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Try running it with a controlled side by side. Use a clone or isolate. scale I would definitely watch that one with interest.
fixed lol
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: 3 Day Dunk Pinset [Re: cronicr]
#23495198 - 07/31/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
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Pastywhyte said: Try running it with a controlled side by side. Use a clone or isolate. scale I would definitely watch that one with interest.
fixed lol
do ya mean to just do ms, but run a huge sample then put through a t test? Cause that would work, just didn't want to assume how big of a grow he wanted to do.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Grows will always be relatively small.
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george castanza
Lord Of The Idiots!


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 8,723
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Take a good look at your cake. The cakes I have flushed like that always seem to have a few fingers of myc growing over the foil into the perlite, presumably to wick water into the cake to support such a monstrous flush.
I've run several dunking experiments way back when and I never noticed a cake absorbing any more water after the 24hr mark. After 12 hours most all cakes will have absorbed as much as they can hold.
Now you could be adding a factor with the extended dunk. The stress factor of drowning the myc. I doubt this is helpful to your yields in the long run but there is no way I could say for certain.
And btw very nice looking cake!
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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holy shit, nice pinset.
ive got some clone jars going now, with 6 i just dunked, and are fruiting, and then 6 that are going to be dunkeed today/tomorrow.
i might go ahead and dunk one or two of the cakes for 2-3 days to test this, myself, compared to how the normal dunked cake are doing now.
im with pasty, though. i not convinced it was from the dunk. could just be an amazing culture.. i would clone one of those clusters, also, like he suggested.
EDIT - thats a great point, too, about it absorbing as much as it would have at the 12ish mark. i have picked up a cake at the 14 hour mark, jsust to see how heavy it was compared to before the dunk, and then again at the end of the 24hour dunk, and it felt basically the same to me at 14 and 24hours. but i didnt put it on a scale. might do that, and weigh them at the 12, 24, 36, etc to see, if i decide to test it. kinda worried it might just ruin the cakes, though.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
Edited by mupetmower (07/31/16 02:00 PM)
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locallorax
Stranger
Registered: 07/27/12
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I use upside down jars+lids. Just waterproof it with glue (hot or super). Bam a mini saucer that takes up very limited real estate
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Really you don't want any substrate colonized or not, to be completely saturated. Most filament mycelium colonies have a limit as to how much internal pressure they can sustain. Exceed that limit and it literally will inhibit the ability for it to transport the water.
That's why we don't bottom water until the pinset is already in. You need to ensure some of the water has already been used before you add more. I think the OP just has some killer genetics which is why I thought he should clone em. Could be a bit of a shame if he didn't. Those would probably be killer in bulk.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Try running it with a controlled side by side. Use a clone or isolate. scale I would definitely watch that one with interest.
fixed lol
do ya mean to just do ms, but run a huge sample then put through a t test? Cause that would work, just didn't want to assume how big of a grow he wanted to do.
lol i was just buggin ya, but really all a dunk could do is add water so weigh one after 24 hours and after 3 days....although the one with the three day dunk could develop bacteria very easily which could effect a pinset
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: 3 Day Dunk Pinset [Re: cronicr]
#23495790 - 07/31/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Try running it with a controlled side by side. Use a clone or isolate. scale I would definitely watch that one with interest.
fixed lol
do ya mean to just do ms, but run a huge sample then put through a t test? Cause that would work, just didn't want to assume how big of a grow he wanted to do.
lol i was just buggin ya, but really all a dunk could do is add water so weigh one after 24 hours and after 3 days....although the one with the three day dunk could develop bacteria very easily which could effect a pinset
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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That's a lot of pinning going on there. Would bottom watering be a good idea to help support that set?
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
george castanza said: Take a good look at your cake. The cakes I have flushed like that always seem to have a few fingers of myc growing over the foil into the perlite, presumably to wick water into the cake to support such a monstrous flush.
I've run several dunking experiments way back when and I never noticed a cake absorbing any more water after the 24hr mark. After 12 hours most all cakes will have absorbed as much as they can hold.
Now you could be adding a factor with the extended dunk. The stress factor of drowning the myc. I doubt this is helpful to your yields in the long run but there is no way I could say for certain.
And btw very nice looking cake! 
The cake is now in a saucer, bottom watering so I can't check for the overhanging mycelium. There were however several pins reaching out beyond the foil, touching the surface of the perlite as you can see in the pic. I don't know if a fruit uptakes for itself or distributes amongst the colony?
Usually when I dunk cakes, I take them out 24 hours later and always think to myself that they are still light. These cakes seemed to have a more satisfying, expected weight to them.
I'm always curious of how much water cakes seem to usually contain and the amount of water needed by the fruits. It never seems to be enough weight wise by my judgement and I always seem to have minimal flushes with early veil breaks.
It will be interesting to see how these turn out.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Loc: Canada
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It's pretty easy actually. You take the wet weight of your fruits and subtract 10% of that total. That number is the weight of the water in them which if weighed in grams can be directly converted to ml. For a good first flush I find that number should be around 40-50% of the total water in the substrate. If it's more then it's draining the substrate dry. If you are at 40-50% but had a high abort rate, more water needed to be supplied to support the pinset. If it's less than 30% your conditions are bad and need adjusting.
This is pretty general and will not accoint for poor fruiting genetics, but it's pretty much how I look at water usage in a grow. I am always more concerned with the wet weights than the dry.
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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yeah, i dont think i am gonna test it, just because im also afraid it would make it get bacterial or something, like Cron mentioned. i bet those genetics are just really nice. hopefully they will be pretty potent, too. then you'll have a sure winner for a clone.
and yeah, i think bottom watering at this point would probably be a good idea. not for the entire time, but like a couple hours every day. but if you dont notice the cake taking in any water, i would stop doing it. for a couple days. really just depends.
and good point Pasty. i need to start weighing my stuff. i forgot to weigh my sub before the PC, so i wont be able to reliably calculate BE, which sucks. i mean, its not that huge a deal to me, at this time, but it's still cool to see what it is. You think if i weighed one to these cakes with very little in-vitro pinning, that I am just about to birth, that it would weigh similar to what it wouldve weighed when i first loaded them? or would the myc have added a significant amount of weight, to throw it off?
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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You weigh the dry material for BE. You could go weigh it right now.
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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oh! i mean, i just thought that since it had already colonized that the myc growing might have made the weight different. so, thats good to know.
or actually, im retarded.. i could just go load up a jar with the same brf:verm ratio and check that... anyways.. thanks =p
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: It's pretty easy actually. You take the wet weight of your fruits and subtract 10% of that total. That number is the weight of the water in them which if weighed in grams can be directly converted to ml. For a good first flush I find that number should be around 40-50% of the total water in the substrate. If it's more then it's draining the substrate dry. If you are at 40-50% but had a high abort rate, more water needed to be supplied to support the pinset. If it's less than 30% your conditions are bad and need adjusting.
This is pretty general and will not accoint for poor fruiting genetics, but it's pretty much how I look at water usage in a grow. I am always more concerned with the wet weights than the dry.
Thanks. I'll bear this in mind.
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