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OfflineSyzygisticSoul
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Seeking popular opinion
    #23487227 - 07/28/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I recently met someone that has been in and out of rehab several times for, get ready for it...... Shrooms and weed. He insisted that addiction is a disease cause that is what his psychiatrist and counselors have told him for better part of a year. I find it off, cause weed and shrooms are not physically addictive so I wanted the popular opinion of the wise psychedelic community. In your belief, experience or opinion, is addiction a disease? And can one truly be addicted to shrooms and weed?


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OfflineShadeOfDeepPurple
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23487257 - 07/28/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

During the time I was in and out of the psych ward my therapists kept telling me I was an addict because I spent most of my time on the desktop studying psychedelic RC's. I'm quite confidently told them they didn't know what they were talking about and that no psychedelic has ever been a problem for me to the point where I couldn't go without. In fact I'd argue psychedelics encourage you to use them less often the more you do them. I doubt very many have legitimately been addicted to psychedelics.

Weed, idk, I wouldn't say I've been addicted, but it can be hard for me to not get stoned if I have it around. I enjoy it to much. Oh course I would never say that to a therapist for obvious reasons. If I want to stop all I have to do is not buy more.


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OfflineAVShroomer
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: ShadeOfDeepPurple]
    #23487338 - 07/28/16 08:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I don't see how people can be "addicted to psychedlics I went to rehab before for heroin and psychedlics make me look at my life if a positive light and after trips id always have a better outlook on things. Psychedelics have never been a drug that I've felt the need to do every single day. Marijuana also has been a drug that has helped me not hindered me but I have seen one person that actually smoked weed like it was crack and stole money for pot and all that but that was one person out of tons of people I know to smoke. I guess it just depends on the person no matter what drug it is someone could abuse it some way  I'm sure its just very less likely that someone is apt to abuse psychedelics and good ol mary jane ;p


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'It's not a war on drugs its a war on personal freedom'
>**My Trip Journal**<


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: AVShroomer] * 1
    #23487455 - 07/28/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

To the first question: Is addiction a disease?

The issue here is our culture has not yet learned the difference between the map and the territory. The "disease model" is one way we can model or think about addiction and this model has some validity to it and isn't wrong to use this model. It has its advantages and disadvantages like any model. One advantage to looking at it as a disease is that it can help self loathing addicts with lots of guilt stop blaming themselves. A disadvantage is that it can disempower people from the fact that they actually do have the power to control their actions and change their choices.

I mainly look at addiction as an unskillful method of coping with emotional distress.

To the second question can you be addicted to shrooms and weed? Definitely. You can be addicted to tevelision, cigarettes, food, sex, just about anything psychologically rewarding can fuel addictive behavior.

Marijuana can be quite psychologically habit forming to some people and with heavy enough use a physical dependence can occur also.

Shrooms its only psychological, but there are some people who abuse psychedelics including shrooms taking them way too often, sometimes suffering bad trips and psychological consequences but continue to take them often anyway. It is much rarer than with other substances though, for reasons which I imagine are obvious to anyone experience in shrooms.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (07/28/16 09:29 PM)


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OfflineCanadian Jesus
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: AVShroomer]
    #23487507 - 07/28/16 09:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

When I was a teenager I used to be hooked on pot. I would go nights without sleep just from not having any. Me and a few people I knew and still know got the jonse pretty badly at times. We'd be hanging out and just be sitting there bummed out and not really knowing what to do because we didn't have any chop to smoke. We'd go to pretty far stretches just to score a 20 bag when we were low on cash or dry.

I know one guy who has chronic depression problems and real life issues tenfold worse than what I have ever had who cannot go a day without smoking without loosing his marbles. I help him out whenever I can because I know what he's going through.

Yes weed can be addictive, but psychs? I doubt it. I can see where people would abuse psychs badly just trying to escape from life, but IMO it would wear one out too much to be able to keep going for any real length of time. I did know a guy who was legitimately addicted to DXM, but that's a whole different boat than our beloved sacraments.

Psychological dependence can be pretty powerful for some people of certain mindsets.

I'm not 100% sure about addiction being a disease. Physical addiction, probably. That's what my doc told me when I went onto methadone treatment and I sort of believe it because opiate addiction sure felt like it. Mental addiction probably isn't a disease, it's more of a mindset and in my experience is usually temporary.

Nowadays I can start and stop using marijuana whenever I want with no real cravings, but my opiate issues probably just made me stronger in that regard.

Rehab for shrooms? That's the first I have ever heard of that but I guess anythings possible. I wouldn't really discredit it. The guy was probably going through some pretty serious life issues and legitimately needed the help.


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What's the crime if I snort a line, smoke, toke shoot it up all at the same time?



SunnyD said:
Definitely have more respect for sheekle than I do for unjust laws


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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: Canadian Jesus]
    #23487608 - 07/28/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I can tell you from experience tha video game addiction can be every bit as nasty as a drug addiction. My step son tried to kill me then himself when we took away his videogame systems temporarily because he was caught stealing money to support his online video game addiction. It wasn't pretty.

IME Weed seems weakly addictive, about on par with coffee at the worst. Seems to cause depression when you quit too. Addiction to shrooms? hell no.


--------------------
"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23487700 - 07/28/16 10:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Me ex used to fiend like a fool when she didn't have pot, never seen anyone like that in my life.


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©️


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Invisibleruaware
Registered: 06/30/16
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. [Re: Lucis]
    #23488216 - 07/29/16 04:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

.


Edited by ruaware (12/05/16 05:54 PM)


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OfflineSonicTitan
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: ruaware]
    #23488259 - 07/29/16 04:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ive never heard of addiction to psychedelics. Ive seen people just want to not come down tho and constant redose. They learn quick that its not the best decisions when they find out all their drugs were wasted trying to chase the peak they had earlier.

Weed on the other hand can totally develop a dependency. People intergrate smoking in their lifestyles so much it becomes part of what they are/do. I sometimes feel this way about my pot usage. I notice i have almost rituals like the joint in the morning one at lunch and multiple in the evening. Its like clockwork, but without it I am alright for he most part but there is always thst picking in my head thats like "a joint would be nice right now" so i totally agree weed can cause a dependency.


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"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23488781 - 07/29/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I have a guy I work with who came back from Afghanistan and was taking massive amounts of LSD and MDMA everyday. He has officially fried himself but I guess that was his way of dealing with his PTSD. He said he was addicted...

I'm just sayin psychological addiction is a different animal than physical addiction.


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you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


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OfflineMike4aco
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: dcthestar]
    #23489134 - 07/29/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Psychological addiction is where your brain says i need this even though its gonna be bad for me (loss of money, inconvenience, knowing that you shouldn't etc) physical addiction is where when you DONT get what you are addicted to your body stops functioning correctly,  lethargy, diarrhea, vomiting, blood in stool or urine, siezures


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23489206 - 07/29/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It's complete bullshit. You can get mentally addicted to weed but not shrooms.

And I know there's gonna be ignorant people coming at me saying "you can be mentally addicted to anything".....but that's only partially true.

You can get mentally addicted to anything that isn't a mental amplifier. Well LSD and mushrooms are both mental amplifiers so they would not be able to satisfy or subside psychological withdrawals.

Plus you can't even use LSD or shrooms everyday and to be an addict means you can't go a day without it. Addiction is also a step above dependence which most people don't get.


Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (07/29/16 12:41 PM)


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OfflineShadeOfDeepPurple
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23489209 - 07/29/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I just had an epiphany. You were seeking "popular" opinion. Therefor I never should have posted in this thread.


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OfflineByCoverOfNight
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23489267 - 07/29/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Never been addicted to anything but doctor prescribed Xanax for acute insomnia despite having played with Heroin for 4 months solid nearly everyday 4x per. Weed has always been a social thing. Opium I would very happily be addicted to if I had a reliable source.
Just started growing shrooms and so far I very much enjoy tripping every 3-4 days ( 7 trips total, highest dose 7g's, 5g's is my sweet spot). It's just incredibly good fun, even the 2 hideously terrible "bad" trips I've had. Like a kid who wants to go the amusement park all the time. I recover completely after 2 days. Too early to have an opinion on whether shrooms are in any way addictive but I have 8 BRF jars 2 weeks out from going in the FC so I'll be more informed later on.
I will say that I'm a successfully medicated bi-polar person and shrooms help me journey through myself and poke around those parts/spaces in my brain that don't quite function correctly, and by bringing them to the foreground of consciousness, understand them and integrate them. A year of therapy in one night is definitely true for me. Is feeling good and confident about yourself addictive? I hope so.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: ByCoverOfNight]
    #23489361 - 07/29/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Being able to use mushrooms for therapy and integration can in itself be addicting psychologically.  So can that incredible body high feeling it gives you.  But it's not physically addicting, it's more self limiting IME.  :Awemush:


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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineSonicTitan
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #23489438 - 07/29/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Im not a psychologist or neurologist so I wouldnt know for sure. I guess I can agree with you dcthestar that someone could form a psycological dependency on psychedelics but I wouldnt think it would last long considering the toll they can take on you after a while. It would be a hard one to keep up I would think haha. I do know people who take alot of psychedelics on a more than regular basis but i dont know if its dependency or just them wanting to party thier asses off. I never seen them fiend or talk about how they want it all the time or feel they need it.


--------------------
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



Edited by SonicTitan (07/29/16 02:12 PM)


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OfflineSyzygisticSoul
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23489466 - 07/29/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

But would y'all consider "addiction" a disease?


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23489787 - 07/29/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

if he needs help quitting weed that doesnt even bother me. It can make you very happy and if you spend all of your free time high then being sober gets boring so people may need to figure out strategies to releive stress or help them quit or what ever. That makes sense. But shrooms? Thats fuking ridiculous.


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OfflineSyzygisticSoul
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23489798 - 07/29/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

He said he was addicted to "salt of the earth"


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OfflineUniverse
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23489808 - 07/29/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SyzygisticSoul said:
But would y'all consider "addiction" a disease?




Webster says this:

Quote:

Simple Definition of disease
: an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally
: a problem that a person, group, organization, or society has and cannot stop





For the first one, no. For the second one yes.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: Universe]
    #23489822 - 07/29/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Addiction prevents the mind from working normally. And in the case of benzo, alchohol, opioid, ect addiction it prevents the body from working normally too so i would say that addiction fits within the first definition aswell as the second.


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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23490003 - 07/29/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Addiction is not a disease, that's bullshit. That takes all the responsibility off of the individual. I believe it rewires your brain but it's not a true disease.

I had to go to rehab for opiates and benzos and they force feed you that disease stuff. It makes people weak I feel... and don't get me started on NA or AA and their whole Kool aid. Whatever helps people get better and live productively though. Religion, AA, disease definitions.. whatever helps people.

Edited for tablet using autocorrect like I'm writing on a potato.


--------------------
you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


Edited by dcthestar (07/29/16 06:03 PM)


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OfflineSyzygisticSoul
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: dcthestar]
    #23490033 - 07/29/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dcthestar said:


Edited for tablet using autocorrect like I'm writing on a potato.




Da fuck!!! I fucking died laughing. Of all shit a potato comes to mind?


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: Universe]
    #23490043 - 07/29/16 06:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Universe said:
Webster says this:

Quote:

Simple Definition of disease
: an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally
: a problem that a person, group, organization, or society has and cannot stop





For the first one, no. For the second one yes.




What? How is it not the first one?


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: dcthestar]
    #23490051 - 07/29/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dcthestar said:
Addiction is not a disease, that's bullshit. That takes all the responsibility off of the individual. I believe it rewires your brain but it's not a true disease.

I had to go to rehab for opiates and benzos and they force feed you that disease stuff. It makes people weak I feel... and don't get me started on NA or AA and their whole Kool aid. Whatever helps people get better and live productively though. Religion, AA, disease definitions.. whatever helps people.

Edited for tablet using autocorrect like I'm writing on a potato.




This makes almost no sense.

Also an addiction is completely out of control of the individual so how is it taking away the responsibility of the person?


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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23490082 - 07/29/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:

dcthestar said:
Addiction is not a disease, that's bullshit. That takes all the responsibility off of the individual. I believe it rewires your brain but it's not a true disease.

I had to go to rehab for opiates and benzos and they force feed you that disease stuff. It makes people weak I feel... and don't get me started on NA or AA and their whole Kool aid. Whatever helps people get better and live productively though. Religion, AA, disease definitions.. whatever helps people.

Edited for tablet using autocorrect like I'm writing on a potato.




This makes almost no sense.

Also an addiction is completely out of control of the individual so how is it taking away the responsibility of the person?




I meant it takes away the responsibility they played in getting there and I've been to rehab and the disease label provides people with a convenient excuse for their behavior or their lack of fortitude in getting clean. It makes them victims. Ultimately I don't feel too strongly either way and just hope people find help. That's all that really matters.


--------------------
you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


Edited by dcthestar (07/29/16 06:26 PM)


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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23490086 - 07/29/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SyzygisticSoul said:
Quote:

dcthestar said:


Edited for tablet using autocorrect like I'm writing on a potato.




Da fuck!!! I fucking died laughing. Of all shit a potato comes to mind?




Hahaha just felt fitting. Also love sound tribe av bro! My first L trip was at a STS9 show.


--------------------
you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


Edited by dcthestar (07/29/16 06:29 PM)


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OfflineSyzygisticSoul
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: dcthestar]
    #23490100 - 07/29/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ya I like them but I choose this AV because I feel like it truly enbodies my first real strong dose of L.

Do me a favor DC, go to YouTube and listen to So Devilish by the Underacheivers and get back to me with your thoughts.

I have a wide variety of music I enjoy


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: dcthestar]
    #23490110 - 07/29/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yea but don't you still think it could technically fit the definition of disease?

And they are victims honestly, if you didn't purposely get addicted then you are a victim essentially. Just because you brought yourself to that point doesn't mean you aren't a victim. I don't think saying it is or isn't a disease takes away from the individual's responsibility either. It is a literal chemical imbalance. I don't think saying it's a disease makes them anymore of a victim than they already are.

I think the reason people consider it a disease is the fact that you can't just make it go away. Something like depression you technically could make go away on your own, it may be very hard but at least it's still possible.


Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (07/29/16 06:40 PM)


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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23490111 - 07/29/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Good stuff man check out this song. He mentions mushrooms in it :mushroom2:


--------------------
you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23490115 - 07/29/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Yea but don't you still think it could technically fit the definition of disease?

And they are victims honestly, if you didn't purposely get addicted then you are a victim essentially. Just because you brought yourself to that point doesn't mean you aren't a victim. I don't think saying it is or isn't a disease takes away from the individual's responsibility either. It is a literal chemical imbalance. I don't think saying it's a disease makes them anymore of a victim than they already are.

I think the reason people consider it a disease is the fact that you can't just make it go away. Something like depression you technically could make go away on your own, it may be very hard but at least it's still possible.




I guess I can see that. Good  point... Like I said I just want people to get help and beat it. I've been sober over a year now. I dose psychs and kratom every once in a while so I'm not NA sober lol but I'm in such a better place.


--------------------
you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


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OfflineSyzygisticSoul
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: dcthestar]
    #23490143 - 07/29/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Fucking dykes, and penicillin shots at the clinic? lol doing too much


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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #23490160 - 07/29/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:grin:15 hits of X in one night lol


--------------------
you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


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OfflineHeadrush
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Re: Seeking popular opinion [Re: ByCoverOfNight]
    #23490948 - 07/30/16 12:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ByCoverOfNight said:
Never been addicted to anything but doctor prescribed Xanax for acute insomnia despite having played with Heroin for 4 months solid nearly everyday 4x per. Weed has always been a social thing. Opium I would very happily be addicted to if I had a reliable source.
Just started growing shrooms and so far I very much enjoy tripping every 3-4 days ( 7 trips total, highest dose 7g's, 5g's is my sweet spot). It's just incredibly good fun, even the 2 hideously terrible "bad" trips I've had. Like a kid who wants to go the amusement park all the time. I recover completely after 2 days. Too early to have an opinion on whether shrooms are in any way addictive but I have 8 BRF jars 2 weeks out from going in the FC so I'll be more informed later on.
I will say that I'm a successfully medicated bi-polar person and shrooms help me journey through myself and poke around those parts/spaces in my brain that don't quite function correctly, and by bringing them to the foreground of consciousness, understand them and integrate them. A year of therapy in one night is definitely true for me. Is feeling good and confident about yourself addictive? I hope so.



Sounds like my story. Keep with your trips. Good for opiate recovery.


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