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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT!
    #23487031 - 07/28/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Sheldrake at his sloppiest. Here he tosses out all scientific protocols by not controlling variables, using selection bias, not blinding the test and using an undersized sample size. Fail, fail, fail and FAIL!

From Amazon:

1.0 out of 5 stars
shoddy science
By David Groupon May 23, 2004

Format: Paperback

What a disappointment. Some of the "science" here wouldn't pass muster in a high school science fair. The main problem is that he fails to adequately control for other variables, so that his results may easily be tainted by other factors. For instance, he has the owners themselves record the observations of their pets. What proud owner, consciously or subconsciously, wouldn't want their Fido or Fluffy to be a star performer?
The sampling size is small and, he admits, skewed towards those whose pets show positive results. Some incidents seem to be the result of sheer coincidence (Ruggles, pg. 106-7), or the result of the dog's actions triggering thoughts in the owner (pg. 124). There is also association by innuendo, where Sheldrake discusses cases where other factors cannot be ruled out, then presents a case or two which "proves" psychic ability. He also doesn't deal with instances where pets had a reaction not associated with any definitive behavior by the owner. Not only that, he presents cases where the pet responds to when the owner starts home, cases where the pet responds to when the owner *thinks* of going home, and cases where the pet responds to when the owner is approaching home. With so many choices, it's no wonder he gets quite a few hits.

Mitchell and Rickard's LIVING WONDERS demolishes the myth of canine loyalty after death, and Budiansky's THE TRUTH ABOUT DOGS states that other researchers were unable to replicate Sheldrake's amazing results. I like pets just as much as anyone else, though I don't feel the need to glorify them with powers that their small brains are incapable of possessing.


1.0 out of 5 stars
Dogs Who Don't Know When They're Owners Come Home
By A customer on September 28, 1999

Format: Hardcover

I recently saw the 20/20 episode concerning this book. While doctors agree that animals have some senses about their owners, a test they aired proved that most dogs do not know when they're owners are coming home. The episode showed one camera on a pet, and the other camera with the pet's owners. This particular dog waited by the window for hours, so , of course, when the owner got home, the dog was already by the window. I will agree that dogs have certain senses about things, but the "super human" abilities, come on! That is ridiculous. Until my dog saves me from a car accident or saves me from a life-threatening situation, I say this book has no merit.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23487637 - 07/28/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Copy and paste? This thread neee'eeedsy Videeeoo!



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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: falcon]
    #23487884 - 07/28/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't read the thread but my dog is so oblivious to what's going on that a piece of food can fall within a few feet of her and if something is blocking her line of sight she won't be able to find it (even if actively looking it will often take her some time or she will give up before finding it). So much for sense of smell.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (07/28/16 11:56 PM)


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: Peyote Road] * 1
    #23488749 - 07/29/16 09:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

And then there are the obvious, incompetent efforts to prove dogs do not know when their owners are coming home by trying to debunk Sheldrakes documentation.

http://www.sheldrake.org/reactions/richard-wiseman-s-claim-to-have-debunked-the-psychic-pet-phenomenon

Some dogs cannot or will not even use their sense of smell to find food near them.  I've seen that too.  Likely some internal stress has them distracted.

Myself and a few friends did an experiment related to the staring experiments that Sheldrake did.  But we did it differently.  We used a situation where both people, the one initiating the staring and the one being stared at lives depended upon proper performance.

I had noticed that while driving on two lane highways at 65 mph, I could turn my eyes at oncoming traffic, specifically to the drivers eyes, and they would look back.  I put my sunglasses on, it still worked.

If I used my periphery vision to observe what they were doing, they did not look back.  It was only when my intent was use my eyes to look directly at their eyes that they returned the momentary stare.

I mentioned this to a friend who drove a great deal on highway 1 in northern California, he tried it every time he was on the road, and found that almost always, the oncoming driver returned the momentary stare, even if sunglasses were worn and the head carefully kept in the same position, only the eyes moving to look at the oncoming driver.

Anyone can try this safely to confirm it.

We are more than just flesh and blood.  There is an instantaneous energy associated with our intent.

The ancient Indigenous spiritual people refer to the "oneness", as a realm of intent.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


Edited by ChristopherABrown (07/29/16 09:43 AM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23488861 - 07/29/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Don't know why this is so amazing. When people are scheduled to be home at a certain time my dog can judge when that time is. I don't think she can read a clock, but general time of day is easy to judge. Dogs also have acute hearing and legendary sense of smell. They sense things slightly before people...like the sound of a car engine...tires in the driveway...etc... I am a long time dog owner and I know my dogs well.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/29/16 10:35 AM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23488894 - 07/29/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

One more thing. You didn't own a dog when I was in town there (I don't think). You would benefit from the right kind of dog. My faithful collie dog Leonard died about a year ago at 17 years of age. I had owned an old dog for so long that I didn't know what fun a younger one could be. One night in the winter a lost (she had an orange official looking collar denoting a working cattle herding dog) an Australian cattle dog about 4 months old was at my gate shivering from the rain. I took her in and could not find an owner so I kept her. This is a very intelligent and physically active dog. My activity level had been declining but knowing that this dog "needed" exercise or it gets psychotic I became more active and I am recovering a lot of lost cardio as a result. I just got back from a run in the desert with her. I take water for her so she can keep on going when it's dry and she can run and run. So I have been running a lot too. She doesn't just like to run but she forces me to get out and go by urging me  to do so (like getting my running shoes, running gear or just plain barking at me). Just an inspirational story to add.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23488900 - 07/29/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Successfully performing the staring experiment will win you a million dollars (see: JREF), alas this will not happen.

*cue the standard parade of true believer excuses*


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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23490310 - 07/29/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

This review is from: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home: And Other Unexplained Powers of Animals (Hardcover)
As an experimental psychologist who has closely examined claims of the paranormal (see "The Conscious Universe" here on Amazon.com), I wasn't sure what to think of Sheldrake's experiments with telepathic dogs. Then I had an opportunity to review and analyze the raw data in some of his controlled experiments. I was astonished with the results. There is basically no doubt that some dogs do indeed anticipate when their owners are about to return home, even at randomly selected times, and without benefit of any explicit or subliminal cues. For me, this significantly raises the credibility of some of the other "powers" of animals that Sheldrake discusses so clearly. I highly recommend this book for anyone who has ever gazed at their dog and wondered what was going on in that furry little head.
/quote]


By Richard R on November 22, 2000
Format: Paperback
Sheldrake has spent a lifetime studying animals but looks outside the box of conventional wisdom in this engaging book about family pets. He suggests that the animals we know best, the cats and dogs who live in our homes, can teach us the most. He looks closely at several categories of oft-reported -but sometimes disregarded- types of animal behavior: predicting when their owners will return home, empathy, telepathy, sense of direction, and premonitions. Using replicable and rigorous experimental methods he demonstrates that something indeed is going on here, something they can not be easily described by conventional explanations. Sheldrake posits psychic connections that he calls "morphic bonds" exist among some creatures, including bees in a hive and schools of fish, and may well exist between some animals and the humans closest to them. Sheldrake clearly explains that such bonds do not occur among all pets or even among the same pets in all situations, but they definitely do seem to exist.
This is a fun book for animal-lovers, full of engaging anecdotes about dogs, cats, horses, and birds who enjoy strong emotional bonds with their owners that allow them to accomplish seemingly-unbelievable feats. But it is also an eye-opening book, for Sheldrake has applied some scientific techniques to both debunk fraudulent claims and to confirm those that have no conventional explanation. His "morphic bonds" are persuasive, especially to those who have lived closely with animals and observed their behavior in close quarters.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23490447 - 07/29/16 09:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Welcome back. :wave:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: falcon]
    #23490457 - 07/29/16 09:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

This is a fun book for animal-lovers, full of engaging anecdotes




But nary a hint of science. :ohwell:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: Hobozen]
    #23490460 - 07/29/16 09:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hobozen = frozen hobo?


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23490479 - 07/29/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i know when my owner's coming home


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channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23490481 - 07/29/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Oh canada.

It's a nice effortless zen at times being out and about all the time. Im at the beach
right now and it's just gorge.



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: demiu5]
    #23490491 - 07/29/16 09:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23490525 - 07/29/16 09:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:







i'd be a somewhat happier man if that were the case

:naughty:


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: falcon]
    #23490685 - 07/29/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Quote:

This review is from: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home: And Other Unexplained Powers of Animals (Hardcover)
As an experimental psychologist who has closely examined claims of the paranormal (see "The Conscious Universe" here on Amazon.com), I wasn't sure what to think of Sheldrake's experiments with telepathic dogs. Then I had an opportunity to review and analyze the raw data in some of his controlled experiments. I was astonished with the results. There is basically no doubt that some dogs do indeed anticipate when their owners are about to return home, even at randomly selected times, and without benefit of any explicit or subliminal cues. For me, this significantly raises the credibility of some of the other "powers" of animals that Sheldrake discusses so clearly. I highly recommend this book for anyone who has ever gazed at their dog and wondered what was going on in that furry little head.
/quote]


By Richard R on November 22, 2000
Format: Paperback
Sheldrake has spent a lifetime studying animals but looks outside the box of conventional wisdom in this engaging book about family pets. He suggests that the animals we know best, the cats and dogs who live in our homes, can teach us the most. He looks closely at several categories of oft-reported -but sometimes disregarded- types of animal behavior: predicting when their owners will return home, empathy, telepathy, sense of direction, and premonitions. Using replicable and rigorous experimental methods he demonstrates that something indeed is going on here, something they can not be easily described by conventional explanations. Sheldrake posits psychic connections that he calls "morphic bonds" exist among some creatures, including bees in a hive and schools of fish, and may well exist between some animals and the humans closest to them. Sheldrake clearly explains that such bonds do not occur among all pets or even among the same pets in all situations, but they definitely do seem to exist.
This is a fun book for animal-lovers, full of engaging anecdotes about dogs, cats, horses, and birds who enjoy strong emotional bonds with their owners that allow them to accomplish seemingly-unbelievable feats. But it is also an eye-opening book, for Sheldrake has applied some scientific techniques to both debunk fraudulent claims and to confirm those that have no conventional explanation. His "morphic bonds" are persuasive, especially to those who have lived closely with animals and observed their behavior in close quarters.




Excellent find!  That was about a year after I first discovered Sheldrakes work.

A comprehensive and objective evaluation.

It reminded me of thoughts I had regarding flocks of birds flying in tight formation, like the were all connected.  Definitely something seemingly impossible to explain without some psychic connection.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23490696 - 07/29/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Successfully performing the staring experiment will win you a million dollars (see: JREF), alas this will not happen.

*cue the standard parade of true believer excuses*




Hah ha haha, James Randi does not have the integrity to discuss the realities with the public he dangles his $ numbers in front of.  I have lots of experience with JREF.  Something not right with them.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23490816 - 07/29/16 11:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yay, another ignoramus who doesn't understand what a legal and binding contract is. The applicant officially states what they can do and then they either do it or don't. Randi's character and sexual preference do not come into account.

Likewise, you are free to replicate Sheldrake's test under more stringent protocols and win international acclaim and turn the world of physics and biology upside down - but you won't.

There have been about 500 more like you on these boards and ALL have failed to produce. Walk the walk!


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23490876 - 07/29/16 11:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There's a whiff of science that floats in most minds: And the smell reeks it smells of a usefull contradiction, that these psychic dogs are a different species than those psychic wolves and the psychic coyotes. As all three interbreed with fertile psychic offspring, who farted.


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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23490895 - 07/29/16 11:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Are you using ignoramus to convey that chris is uninformed or stupid or using it as ablind for a flame as it can convey either meaning, which would be awitty but pussy thing to do.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: falcon]
    #23491002 - 07/30/16 12:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Slamming JREF without having read the rules of the contest and knowing how the money is held and awarded is:

A. Knowledgeable

B. Ignorant

?


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23492453 - 07/30/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Slamming JREF without having read the rules of the contest and knowing how the money is held and awarded is:

A. Knowledgeable

B. Ignorant

?




Ten years ago I made all the steps the rules defined and there was no response.  How about posting those rules?


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23492478 - 07/30/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Likewise, you are free to replicate Sheldrake's test under more stringent protocols and win international acclaim and turn the world of physics and biology upside down - but you won't.





You are free to explain why Ken Keyes wrote his book in 1974 referring to the research of Japanese biologists, but you won't. 

You are free to explain why Watkins was attacked by science for his uses of what he referred to as the research of Japanese biologists, but you won't.

You are free to explain why my assertions of having read the original book by 23 Japanese biologist, and that it was removed from society, with an explanation of how, and that the treatment of Watkins is consistent, but you won't.

Instead you assume that I am economically capable of conducting such replication.  Hmmmm, and you will not talk about your agenda.  Hmmmm.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23492560 - 07/30/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You are free to explain why Ken Keyes wrote his book




I am to mind-read a dead person?


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (07/30/16 01:14 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23492914 - 07/30/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

My cat Alex knows that Sunday is Raw Egg Sunday. He also knows that around 5pm is "kitty treat" time every day. Scruffy can get a pretty good idea of routine, but he's not psychic.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23493062 - 07/30/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Yay, another ignoramus

There have been about 500 more like you on these boards and ALL have failed to produce. Walk the walk!






--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23493618 - 07/30/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Bring it home.



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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23494960 - 07/31/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

You are free to explain why Ken Keyes wrote his book




I am to mind-read a dead person?




Logic is possible despite such a fact. 

Selectivity is evasion when other supportive issues are present like the treatment of Watkins with the implications of Keyes book.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23495015 - 07/31/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You are aware that a book about a book is not considered evidence, are you not?


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23495142 - 07/31/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It's evident that you don't consider a non-evident book evidence of evidence.

Evidently you're just running me in circles

:woooaaahhh:


--------------------
I am that, which is.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: Khancious]
    #23495152 - 07/31/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Did you know that according to one member here, it takes LOTS of research money to have a dog owner come home at an irregular time, and not in his own car, to actually test the hypothesis?


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23495167 - 07/31/16 10:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If you don't use at least a ferrari, the results are muddled and cannot be used within the conclusion.

:drunkdriver2:


--------------------
I am that, which is.


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23495191 - 07/31/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
You are aware that a book about a book is not considered evidence, are you not?




The inability to conduct inference indicate low intelligence.  The unwillingness to make implication indicates low integrity.  The evidence of low integrity indicates hidden agenda.  The presence of unexplained evasion indicates hidden agenda.  The unreasonable persistence of the above indicate hidden agenda.

The logical exposure of the hidden agenda finds an intent to prevent people from knowing that the 1962 book, "The Hundredth Monkey" existed.  The scientific attacks upon Lyle Watson indicate an effort to prevent people from understanding the science explaining dream state communications between mammals, or the implications indicating unconscious control over populations.

All of the logic points to the distinct possibility that the hidden agenda here is the same as that behind the removal of the book and the attacks on Watson.  I'm sorry, but you've destroyed your  credibility.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23502913 - 08/02/16 06:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineChristopherABrown
Human being
Male

Registered: 07/22/16
Posts: 330
Loc: Santa Barbara California Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Dogs know when their owners are coming home - NOT! [Re: laughingdog]
    #23506261 - 08/03/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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