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Offlinefrog48
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Crude oil in shiitake blocks
    #23485058 - 07/28/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hi shroomery

It's been a while, been producing shiitake in a pretty steady flow of 30 k's weekly for almost a year now. Selling them is no problem, producing them is harder. Even tough sometimes. Yields have been pretty stable around 20 % or more for over a year. Last three months I'm having contamination issues of a kind that I haven't seen before. After a months or so blocks are starting to sweat a lot in incubation after two months metabolic are turning black and when I want to birth blocks and I open bags I see sometimes tiny flies:confused:
During fruiting they start to smell weird and some of them start leaking crude oil, a phenomena that I have seen mentioned on this board before but nobody seemed to have an explanation. Blocks are still producing mush but not as abundant as before. Some of them develop large circles of trich, others just smell awful, a rotten smell of decomposing I don't know what.

I suspect it's a trich problem that already started in my grain masters that got infected in my hood. May be HEpa doesn't function properly? I've had contamination problems before and I changed filter last year.
Anybody any ideas?




Large trich circle on a production block





Crude oil leaking from the top of block






Not sure if this is related but sometimes I see this too  :mad2:



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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: frog48]
    #23485090 - 07/28/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

subscribing to your post.

cant help with any of your problems.

but... great growout! :smile:


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: pablokabute]
    #23485158 - 07/28/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Have you tested your hood with a clean plate? Let it sit out for a few min with it running. When is the last time your spawn was on agar? Have you tried spawning a few grains onto a plate and check it? Are you producing your own spawn or buying it? Bugs inside the bag?  U sure the bags are sealing right? Do u pressure test each bag by pushing down on it after sealing?


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23485232 - 07/28/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I've been doing agar plate test. Four out of ten went bad.Too much I guess.Left them open in hood for at least 60 min.  I'll try a larger batch this week. Spawn is home made and fresh. I go back to agar every month. Thought about seal as well, but not very logic that it suddenly doesn't seal properly anymore.
Why grain on agar? To see if it turns green?


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: frog48]
    #23485335 - 07/28/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The reason that I suspect it's a hood related problem, is that my flowhood is operated in a pretty dirty environment. It's a separated room with a door that is pretty much airtight and sealed, but the lab is not far from the growing room where sporeload is very very high sometimes. I spend 400 euro's on a filter last year and sure hope that I don't have to invest that again.
Grower your hood is turning in a pretty dirty environment as well, garage with a heavy spore load no? Not having any issues with your hood? I'm afraid my pre filter is not very well designed and lets through large amounts of dust and molds. But may be I'm just too paranoia about a hood operating in a pretty dirty room. I've seen reports on this board where people were claiming that their hood operated in very dirty set ups for five years or more without any contamination issues. Think I  even saw Drake mentioning that he uses his hood without a pre filter? Somebody can provide some experience about hoods operating in dirty set up?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: frog48]
    #23485699 - 07/28/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If your filter is 99.99 and the room is pretty well sealed off you should be fine.  I suspect your filter may be bad at that high rate of contamination. 

Are you getting mold on your plates?  Same kind as on the blocks?  How about incubation?  Is it warmer this time of year?  Flies in the bags seems real bad and maybe not sealed.  Is your grow room amy warmer?


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: drake89]
    #23485861 - 07/28/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yea even with a dirty environment the filter front should blow off relatively well. Last time i did a plate test i left two out for 20 mins and saw zero contams. Sounds like your filter is bad. And yes putting some spawn onto agar will let you see hidden bacteria or yeast.


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23486129 - 07/28/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks guys, appreciate it! I'll keep you posted.
@drake, incubation room is hot but last year it was similair and I didn't have any issues. The flies are indeed really weird, first time I saw that. Bad seal, I guess. May be the masking tape on my sealer?
Any one tried that as well? Having issues?

I'll put the grain on agar this week Grower, see what grows out of it, thanks.


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OfflineShirak
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks *DELETED* [Re: frog48]
    #23487068 - 07/28/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Shirak<p>Reason for deletion: just because..


Edited by Shirak (07/29/16 01:09 PM)


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: Shirak]
    #23487494 - 07/28/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shirak said:
Could be other issues with your plate test contamination issue than an actual bad filter.  Maybe a bad seal around the filter or air flow that is not laminar.  Or perhaps your technique when handling items when you move them and open and close them within the hood.  Or not getting complete surface sterilization of your work surface/face of the filter before working in the hood.  Or not getting proper sterilization of your tools, hands or jars/plates/bags before opening them up.  Or insufficient airflow which is allowing room air to disrupt the sterile laminar air flow and contaminate items within the hood.  Lots of possible causes for contamination even with a perfectly good filter.




i think we're assuming that since he's been successful in the past, his technique haven't changed.


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OfflineShirak
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks *DELETED* [Re: drake89]
    #23487686 - 07/28/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Shirak

Reason for deletion: why not?



Edited by Shirak (07/28/16 10:40 PM)


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: Shirak]
    #23487874 - 07/28/16 11:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Steeile flow, laminar or not is still sterile.


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: Shirak]
    #23487922 - 07/29/16 12:15 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with Shirak that it is kind of strange that the filter is clogged after a year. The set up is not clean but I don't think I got clouds of spores coming in. Sterile technique didn't change. May be a seal in the hood? I opened the pre filter space and there was lots of fine dust in the space where my blower is installed. That's not normal either I guess. The pre filter should catch dust like that. I bought the hood second hand from a hospital. The original pre filter wasn't installed so I fabricated something myself of iron wire with filter cloth stapled on it. A wooden frame to keep everything in place. May be a air enters between the wooden frame and the edges of the filter cloth



This is what I found behind the filter when I changed it last year. Wiped it out with alcohol, tissue was black!:eek:



DIY pre filter. I'm afraid the air passes between the wooden frame and the edges of the filter cloth.



This what pre filter looks like after two months


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: frog48]
    #23488454 - 07/29/16 07:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, for me the verdict is clear. I took the HEPA out of the hood this morning and found lots of black dust in the plenum. The filter itself had black traces of dust everywhere. Prefilter doesn't work at all or the hood has got a huge leak somewhere. I presume its the filter though. Gonna cost me another 400 euro's to get clean production started again. :mad2:



Black dust in the plenum



traces of dust on filter


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: frog48]
    #23488460 - 07/29/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hi Shirak, our posts just crossed each other. The photo with the tissue and black dust is this morning. Much dirtier than the other photo wich dates from a year ago. The back of the filter is still white as if it is new but you can clearly see the traces of dust as you can see on the pic as well. Thanks for input!


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: frog48]
    #23488470 - 07/29/16 07:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Oh by the way, the black traces on the tiles are nothing. Just mixed up white and gray cement to do the joints, looks like mold but is very clean


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: frog48]
    #23488569 - 07/29/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Are there any tiny holes or cracks in the filter pleats?  Usually happens during shipping.  I'm not totally convinced you have a bad filter, it's hard to say.


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: drake89]
    #23488643 - 07/29/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Don't see anything, but it worked fine for over a year. The guy who sells me the filters says it's dead. According to him it's due to very fine dust we got here in the mountains. He advises another prefilter, a F9 cassette filter, that costs 77,10 + 26 euro for the frame you click it in. The frame you only buy once. He says that's the only way to keep the HEPA clean in this set up.


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OfflineShirak
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks *DELETED* [Re: drake89]
    #23488660 - 07/29/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Shirak

Reason for deletion: feel like it



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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Crude oil in shiitake blocks [Re: Shirak]
    #23488711 - 07/29/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shirak said:


What do you do to sterilize the face of the filter and work surfaces?  How long do you let it run before working?




you really should leave them to run constantly IMO.  at least that's what the pros do.


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