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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Can someone help clear things up for me :)
#23482184 - 07/27/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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So Ive done pf tek a few times, and its fun i enjoy it but its getting time to move things along. Ive started to read up on agar a little but theres so many teks and what not can someone just put in order for me the teks, seems we all start on pf tek so whats the next one people normally do?
I dont want them explaining i can read up here on each tek and ask questions after, but i see bulk, monotubs, agar etc and i dont know which is my next step but i think its got agar in it haha
Any help to clear things up would be great ^_^
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482217 - 07/27/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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If I were you, once you have pf tek down I would work on rye grain spawn or even WBS, prep and of course sterile tek, grain to grain transfers, and spawning to a bulk mono or tray in an SGFC. This is how I started as a noob and it's worked out decently for me.
I want to try agar work and I've heard lots of good things about it. I also hear that it's a good step to take after pf tek especially if you are going to be working with grain, liquid cultures, or when you get some good mushies to clone, isolate work in agar.
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound] 2
#23482268 - 07/27/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everyone does it their own way. Here's how I would progress given what your situation is.
Order Petri dishes and premix agar from sponsors. If you plan on growing for a couple years at least go ahead and get the 500 case of petris, it's only like 110$. Continue whatever grows your have now on cakes. In the mean while pour plates, maybe 50-100 to be ready to use when great growth worth saving appears.
What I mean is clusters. This is where culturing with agar is very helpful. Essentially tearing open the fruit, taking a piece of tissue and placing it on blank agar dishes will copy the genetics and allow you to expand them indefinitely if proper techniques are used and sterility is kept throughout. To learn about agar and culturing check out a popular easy to read pictorial thread called something like " cleaning and isolation on agar" by a user stropharios (spelling?) if you use the search bar with those terms it will come up. Read it five times, and again every day for a week.
Checkout another thread called "how it should and shouldn't look: a new cultivators guide" great pictorial, just what the title implies. Book mark it. Refer back to it often.
Once you have a clean culture on agar I love using grain spawn. Grain like rhy, wheat, millet, oats, wild bird seed and more just need to be hydrated to a proper level.
Learn this by reading and ultimately by trial and error over many grows, reading well regarded tells will get you in the right direction faster. Foomans wbs tek is a great and easy one. I used it for years for hundreds of pounds of grain. Using wide mouth quart jars,plastic lids with a 1/8 inch hole drilled and fitted underneath with a full synthetic filter disc would be a good choice.
I would buy a few dozen, no more than 5 dozen. (It takes 4-7 quarts per 66qt monotub, each yielding 4-7 dry oz (genetics play a large role here). So decide what scale you want to work at.
Maybe you only need two dozen. Once you've hydrated your grain and your filtered jars and sterilized for about two hours at 15psi using sterile techniques in a still air box move the clean agar plate into one jar per plate. You will expand to 10x so take great care when making grain masters.
Once transfered it's a waiting game on colonization. Keep at room tempature in ambient light. A grain master should colonize in less than 10 days if the culture is strong. Shake once or twice around 30% and again at 100% to test recovery before expanding.
Once colonized prepair more grain jars (or bags) to expand to. 10x per successfully colonized grain master. Break up your grain masters. Using as sterile technique as possible in a still air box move a tenth of the contents of the grain master into a receiving jar and tighten the receiving jars lid.
Repeat nine times until you've exhausted your grain master jar. Shake these receiving jars up and wait about a week or two. No more.
Choose a substrate to spawn them too. Substrates are like a sponge for mushrooms to draw water from. Common substrates are coco coir like in damion5050's elementary coir tek AKA bucket tek. Or horse manure/vermiculite. Which ever you choose follow a well regarded tek and read it well repeatedly along with the comments keeping in mind some comments are fluff, just look for good questions and answers that are often addressed after the original post.
Grab a few 66qt tubs and a 1.5 inch hole saw. Make monotubs. They're easy. Grab some poly fill while you're out. This is used to regulate the air flow. Here is a easy monotub pictorial https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8231041 Once your spawn is looking healthy and your prepaired your monotub and substrate clean an area to spawn your tubs. Wear gloves to mix the stuff and clean the tub before filling it with your material mix.
stuff the 6 monotub holes with poly and mix the spawn and substrate evenly very well. Do not press on it but gentle make it level and smooth in every direction. Save two big handfuls of substrate before you mix the spawn/substrate. After the mixing and leveling is done use these two handfuls to making a 1/4inch casing on top of the mixed materials. Now put the lid on and label it with a date. Repeat for however many jars you have. Start many grain masters to reduce risk of contams.
Hope this helps
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
Edited by filthyknees (07/27/16 12:49 PM)
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: filthyknees]
#23482367 - 07/27/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wow thanks for the replies, so a lot of reading for me to do now then hey haha, sounds long winded and complicated but then i guess once done it a few times it becomes easy
Ill carry on studying agar and list what ill need to buy, then ill move onto the next bit you mentioned
Thanks again!
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482383 - 07/27/16 01:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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its not that complicated; start your culture on agar, clean it up by transferring, use agar wedge to inoculate grains, use grains to spawn to bulk sub in a monotub, wait, tada!
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: spacechildo]
#23482393 - 07/27/16 01:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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If i can get this down then i can try get a PE culture and have a do with those cant i ^_^
I kinda understand the agar part as been reading i have one or two questions but i might find those answers so im not asking anything yet, then ill start reading on next bit list all i need and start buying my supplies. I have all thats needed for pf tek and a pc, spores and such so i dont need too much really
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482412 - 07/27/16 01:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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you can also buy glad mini rounds or something like those, instead of petri dishes, if you want. thats what Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek is all about. plus they are reusable. thats how i started with agar, with that one simple tek, since i wanted to get my sterile tek down before getting into petris.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: mupetmower]
#23482428 - 07/27/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah thats the tek on agar i was reading actually seems pretty straight forward to do. Few bits ill have to buy but main thing is the pc and i have that haha!
So when you put something into agar, it can be culture, spores, or even a mushroom?
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482444 - 07/27/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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There's only two parts to mushrooms. Spores and mycelium.
Petris can work with either, it's like a blank page for whatever you put on it.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: filthyknees]
#23482737 - 07/27/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Those glad mini rounds, is there a UK version lol, seems need to come from abroad and shipping is muchos monies ^_^
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482753 - 07/27/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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any container made of polypropylene plastic (PP) will do! just make sure the lid is PP as well, or it'll melt.
ebay has tons, but many vendors have no clue what they're selling..
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482758 - 07/27/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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umm, idk.. i mean, you dont have to get actual Glad Minis. The ziplock containers(which are squares, actually) work well, also.
i actually found these at my local dollar store:

The smaller ones with the white lid were 10 for a dollar and the red were 5 for a dollar. both work great. both withstand the PC and everything.
as long as you use containers that say pp5 on them, then it should be fine. you can also even use things like 1/4pint jars, or anything like that.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: mupetmower]
#23482766 - 07/27/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cool thanks 
Is a place not far from me has loads of tub ware type things ill go have a rummage one day i think i prefer those that go in pc to start rather than pc the mix then pour etc.
Ok well ive read a few diff agar threads, made a shopping list, time to move onto next bit
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482787 - 07/27/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah well you don't know until you try. It's fine to like easy agar but you'll get a lot more done easily the "hard" way.
*steps out of the way of flurry of pp5 containers are best posts to come*
Been through 1500+ poured petris. Good way to get good techniques down. Don't think I'll ever pour less than 100 at a time from now on. And it takes a few hours. I've also done over a hundred easy agar dishes
Whatever way works, but try a bunch of stuff over time, at least
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: filthyknees]
#23482794 - 07/27/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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well i plan to try both in time, then see what i think. This just seems a nice easy noob introduction to agar is all
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23482798 - 07/27/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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That it is. You'll laugh at being afraid to use poured petris once you've done a hundred or so.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: filthyknees]
#23482888 - 07/27/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Looking up the items i need its gonna be cheap to get as only need a few bits, if i get petri dishes, which are cheap enough here, and go for pour after i cook my mix i just stick inside something and put in pc is that right? If so i may just do pour as seems easy enough then.
Edit - no need to answer i found another few teks and im all clued up now ^_^ haha exciting learning grain jars, transfers and montubs then im done, i think
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
Edited by Spellbound (07/27/16 05:41 PM)
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23483117 - 07/27/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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i actually just ordered some petris a couple days ago.. the thing i hate about no pour is having to wrap every damn plate in foil before PC.. i despise that part.. so damn much..
just wanted to get technique down a little before wasting a lot of petris possibly.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Spellbound
PegasusTheFlyingHorse



Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 2,341
Loc: England
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: mupetmower]
#23483128 - 07/27/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah after continued reading, i think im gonna go with the perti dishes, pyrex bottle to sterilise the agar mix within the pc, yup, thats my new plan ^_^ hahaha
Seems transfer to grains then look at monotubs and i should have a super duper harvest if i dont balls it all up
-------------------- Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else
 
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Can someone help clear things up for me :) [Re: Spellbound]
#23483334 - 07/27/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yep. Sterilize the agar 40 minutes at 15psi. Let it cool two hours in the pc.
Get a couple sleeves and the agar bottle wiped with 70% ISO in the still air box, let the air settle for a few minutes. Then carefully unwrap the sleeves and stack in two stacks of ten.
Lift the bottom plate with the stack on top and pout the bottom most plate, then lift the second from the bottom and repeat. Pour until you're out, cover the sab arm holes for about an hour (or however long to solidify the agar). If you aren't using them right away then restack into 20 and slip the included sleeve back over the stack, of course still in the sab .
Once they're bagged label them with the date and recipie of agar like light malt extract (lme) or whatever.
After you use the plates to recieve spores or mushroom tissue you have to wrap them individually using parafilm or cling wrap. I usually wrap them, then while still in the sab put them four at a time into fresh unopened sandwich bag, which come sterile inside, to double cover my ass from contams.
From there if you need to transfer to isolate or just expand just unwrap the plates in the sab, wipe well with ISO, make transfers then reseal. Once you have clean growth on agar it takes about a week for a plate to colonize to use in transfer to grain jars.
If you're struggling to see what I mean just YouTube search "pouring agar" but beware dumb asses on youtube, always check many sources
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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