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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #23495299 - 07/31/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
don't waste time trying to figure out what a subconscious is.

the term is too vague and no experts actually can agree.
this does not mean they are still looking at better ways of finding it.

it is a proposed thing based upon medieval hierarchical concepts with god on the top and angels fluttering  throughout.

you have consciousness which hosts body sensation with memory fixation and recall.

everything else in consciousness is a form of sensation or reconstituted memory fragments.

keep it simple s...




Well the effort to understand our mental existence deserves some effort.  But you are correct about the lack of agreement.  I can see small tangle of semantics partly responsible.

Since the cognitive waking state experience is necessarily limited to only the vital information in the strictest sense of survival, AND the term "subconscious" implies linkage to the waking cognitive state, the term "sub cognitive" would be closely interchangeable, except for the implication of unconscious, instinctual control.

Therefore the better definition of subconscious is as an intermediary between cognition and instinctual, emotional memory, fragments or otherwise unconscious information.  Since the conscious cognitive capacity any any moment is limited to no more than 14%, the information or possession of the subconscious may be temporary an incedental to varying degrees.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


Edited by ChristopherABrown (07/31/16 11:54 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: ChristopherABrown] * 1
    #23495984 - 07/31/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ChristopherABrown said:

Since the cognitive waking state experience is necessarily limited to only the vital information in the strictest sense of survival, AND the term "subconscious" implies linkage to the waking cognitive state, the term "sub cognitive" would be closely interchangeable, except for the implication of unconscious, instinctual control.






the cognitive waking state experience is not limited to anything other than all sensory mental contents:
it is a fluid and changing sensory feed mixed with a constant feed from memory based upon cues in the content.

this is way bigger than survival, while suitable to augment ordinary survival.


there is no need to propose a sub conscious that is anything other than aggregate memory.
we don't need two different concepts that are really one thing.

cognitive just pertains to the mental contents which is always sensory mixed with pertinent memory.


--------------------
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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23498472 - 08/01/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

the cognitive waking state experience is not limited to anything other than all sensory mental contents:





Which means cognition consists of all perceptions and contents might refer to memory.

I think you might want to rephrase that.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23498783 - 08/01/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

memory appears equal to sensation in the cerebral cortex.
there is no way to differentiate the source, i.e. is it recall - regenerated, or is it from sensory receptors.
at the interface to consciousness and memory formation sensation and artifacts of recall are 100% the same thing.

perception is a form of memory artifact.
something previously sensed and associated with something else


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: ruaware]
    #23499791 - 08/01/16 08:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ruaware said:
I've come to the conclusion that the ego isn't real. Im not actually me. Im just a bunch of wires connected to each other, my brain is just these neurons and its just biology and chemistry. Quite depressing actually...

But i got the idea that we are all the universe. The big bang happened, all this chemistry and physics just exploded. Then biological life formed. It's like we're all the universe, all of us, connected. There is no you, or i. We're are the universe experiencing itself.




nice sentiment;
if illogical:
you don't exist, but are part of a 'we',
that is made up of 'others' that also don't exist ...
very interesting
then somehow entities that don't exist, share awareness
but most of them don't know it,
but you do ...
very interesting
and now 'you' are sharing this vital information with 'us' ...
very interesting
I suddenly feel so much freer


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23506213 - 08/03/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
memory appears equal to sensation in the cerebral cortex.
there is no way to differentiate the source, i.e. is it recall - regenerated, or is it from sensory receptors.
at the interface to consciousness and memory formation sensation and artifacts of recall are 100% the same thing.

perception is a form of memory artifact.
something previously sensed and associated with something else




Hmm, certainly to a degree, there is an equality momentarily, but the temporal lobe and the anterior part of the occipital lobes are the most important in more complex cortical functions including memory, language, abstraction, creativity, judgment, emotion and attention. They are also involved in the synthesis of movements, which of course are memory based in nearly every way.

The completion of the existential experience requires both, simply in the process of sensation and recognition.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23507168 - 08/03/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ChristopherABrown said:
Hmm, certainly to a degree, there is an equality momentarily, but the temporal lobe and the anterior part of the occipital lobes are the most important in more complex cortical functions including memory, language, abstraction, creativity, judgment, emotion and attention. They are also involved in the synthesis of movements, which of course are memory based in nearly every way.





even this
language, abstraction, creativity, judgment, emotion and attention. They are also involved in the synthesis of movements
These are all words for the act of association - one simple process that binds many parts.

complex only in the variety of what can be learned or practiced.

don't make your theory more complex, see it in action - it is not that complex.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23508201 - 08/04/16 02:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
memory appears equal to sensation in the cerebral cortex.
there is no way to differentiate the source, i.e. is it recall - regenerated, or is it from sensory receptors.
at the interface to consciousness and memory formation sensation and artifacts of recall are 100% the same thing.

perception is a form of memory artifact.
something previously sensed and associated with something else



Perception isn't a memory artifact so much as it is a memory enabler.. we could even say perception seems more like a memory filter, fetching what information it can to store as memory and enabling certain memories to have more or less influence on said perceptions scope of reality (imprints).

Tl;dr: memories both influence and are made possible with perception.
Poetically, however, you are correct.


But obviously, you are way off here.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: hTx]
    #23508246 - 08/04/16 03:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

sensation is the stuff that becomes memories in the cerebral cortex (-A-)
sensation triggers memories (perception) linked in the cortex (-B-)
the mix of both is electrical wave activity of sense and of (linked)memory in the cerebral cortex (-A-)
where no distinction can be made between inner or outer origin.
the combined activity of sensation and perception (-A-) triggers more associations (-B-) and ideation unfolds, memories are reconstructed, actions are enacted, sentences heard and spoken etc.

you want to call that poetry?
you want to call that god?
whatever - keep it simple s!


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23510503 - 08/04/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
memory appears equal to sensation in the cerebral cortex.
there is no way to differentiate the source, i.e. is it recall - regenerated, or is it from sensory receptors.
at the interface to consciousness and memory formation sensation and artifacts of recall are 100% the same thing.

perception is a form of memory artifact.
something previously sensed and associated with something else




Memory formation and recall are not the same thing as they are originated through different methods of electrical communication within body.

The sensations that form memory originate externally from environmental stimuli as they interact with sensory organs in our skin.

The artifacts of recall(memories) originate internally from electromagnetic interactions within the neural networks of the brain.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: sudly]
    #23510531 - 08/04/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

you think there are neural networks in the brain that have nothing to do with sensation?
all the nerves have to do with getting the sensation to the cortex and then fixing the patterns as memory.
neural networks in the cortex are all about sensation and enabling memory of what the senses pick up including the sense of  timing which comes from cerebellum.
the stuff in the cerebellum looks more like the neural networks that we see in cybernetics.

we need it because it is like having a few thousand programmable stopwatches.


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: ruaware]
    #23511054 - 08/04/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Dude the big bang never happened. It doesnt exist because it has never been experienced.
Why does anything exist? Because it fucking has to thats why.
The same reason you have to wake up every morning.
Everythng only exists because you are experiencing it and you are able to say it does. Everything exists because of you.


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23511173 - 08/04/16 10:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
you think there are neural networks in the brain that have nothing to do with sensation?
all the nerves have to do with getting the sensation to the cortex and then fixing the patterns as memory.
neural networks in the cortex are all about sensation and enabling memory of what the senses pick up including the sense of  timing which comes from cerebellum.
the stuff in the cerebellum looks more like the neural networks that we see in cybernetics.

we need it because it is like having a few thousand programmable stopwatches.




Yes, but it is two way.  Sensation comes back as remembered sensations that have tags on them from phylogenetic DNA then interpreted by the the limbic system.  And there are two ways memory may hold things we never sensed in a waking state.  Genetic memory and information from what are called dreams.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


Edited by ChristopherABrown (08/04/16 10:15 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23511520 - 08/05/16 01:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
you think there are neural networks in the brain that have nothing to do with sensation?
all the nerves have to do with getting the sensation to the cortex and then fixing the patterns as memory.
neural networks in the cortex are all about sensation and enabling memory of what the senses pick up including the sense of  timing which comes from cerebellum.
the stuff in the cerebellum looks more like the neural networks that we see in cybernetics.

we need it because it is like having a few thousand programmable stopwatches.




I don't think there's sensation in the brain itself no, hence why we can have open brain surgery while awake.
I think the brain processes sensation for the rest of the body but it doesn't have sensation itself.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineChicken Hoagie
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: sudly]
    #23511656 - 08/05/16 04:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Here's my take..

We are living in a simulation -- a simulation created by a higher being. No one knows what that higher being is, although many would like to call "it" God..

Think about this for a second..

At the rate our technology is advancing, and with virtual reality technology already taking off, just imagine what life will be like 10..20..50..100 years from now? 1000 years???

If we can create real-life simulations ourselves, who is to say a higher being hasn't already surpassed the ultimate form of simulation and created us? Created the universe? We are video game characters, with the exception that our bodies are encoded by DNA instead of ones and zeros(computer bits).

Something created this universe; something allowed us to become consciously aware.

It's one big, gigantic loop..because one day we will be so technologically advanced, we too could create a simulation of a universe..flesh and all.

As far as our ego existing goes..yes, it exists, as long as you are alive and not a psychiatric vegetable. Whether our soul leaves our body or stays, i do believe that we are reborn. Where we are reborn or what we are reborn to, i have no clue. But I do know that we won't die and just sleep for eternity in our grave..if we werent reborn into a new entity when we die, then what else could possibly happen?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23513574 - 08/05/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ChristopherABrown said:

Yes, but it is two way.  Sensation comes back as remembered sensations that have tags on them from phylogenetic DNA then interpreted by the the limbic system.  And there are two ways memory may hold things we never sensed in a waking state.  Genetic memory and information from what are called dreams.




ther is no dna tagging in memory - stop right there.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: sudly]
    #23513577 - 08/05/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I don't think there's sensation in the brain itself no, hence why we can have open brain surgery while awake.
I think the brain processes sensation for the rest of the body but it doesn't have sensation itself.



the sensation that occurs IN THE BRAIN is considered as thought, however, without the signals hitting the brain there is no sensation in the body
and
during surgery of the brain,
if parts related to the body map are touched
it feels like parts of the body are being FUCKED with.
this is extremely important.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23513812 - 08/05/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

rgv, are you saying that memory and experience, or the recorded sensations of an event and the perception of the event, are identical (or at least morphologically the same) processes?  If so I think I agree.  It is always right now.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23513923 - 08/05/16 07:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

ChristopherABrown said:

Yes, but it is two way.  Sensation comes back as remembered sensations that have tags on them from phylogenetic DNA then interpreted by the the limbic system.  And there are two ways memory may hold things we never sensed in a waking state.  Genetic memory and information from what are called dreams.




ther is no dna tagging in memory - stop right there.




Meanings interpreted by the limbic system could be based in phylogenetic memory, DNA responses.  Its unconscious, so no one knows. 

Do not try to say that people do not have feelings about their dreams.  Those feelings come from the limbic system, and since dreams of the unconscious, are in the same place as phylogenetic DNA, there is no saying.  A big maybe.  We do not know enough to say one way or the other.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Does anyone else think our ego doesn't exist and we're all the universe [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23513950 - 08/05/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
rgv, are you saying that memory and experience, or the recorded sensations of an event and the perception of the event, are identical (or at least morphologically the same) processes?  If so I think I agree.  It is always right now.




Hence why living in the "here and now" is somewhat of a guru marketing slogan and safety blanket for intellectual and spiritual advancement.
Even those "trapped" inside memories and living in the past are still here and now,
unless of course the discourse is regarding the focal point of sensory input and/or the processing of psychic phenomenon.


--------------------
I am that, which is.


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