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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23520774 - 08/07/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Pendulum




Not sure what the name of this exercise is...
You bend forward on one leg, so your torso and the other leg form a straight line (a T)
From there the torso raises back up while the raised leg swings below you and then up infront forming a right angle

I'll load weight on my back to do this
Picked up the habit to help stability during kicks

Will say it definitely helps for that purpose as well as a few others


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23520776 - 08/07/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Welll.. Which parts did you disagree with exactly?  Do you have information on balance training studies and proof that it's not a waste of time and your time would be better spent not being under a barbell instead?


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #23520793 - 08/07/16 11:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

We can keyboard warrior all day....there are millions of opinions and hundreds of thousands of articles and editorials and studies that can support my stance or yours.  This proves nothing in the end, because of how subjective it is


I disagree with your statement that balance training is b.s.

You have horse blinders on my friend.  I've heard your ideas across multiple threads now.

And here's my take on it:

I think fitness can be broken up into 10 domains:

Cardiovascular / respiratory endurance – The ability of body systems to gather, process, and deliver oxygen.

Stamina – The ability of body systems to process, deliver, store, and utilize energy.

Strength – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply force.

Flexibility – The ability to maximize the range of motion at a given joint.

Power – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply maximum force in minimum time.

Speed – The ability to minimize the time cycle of a repeated movement.

Coordination – The ability to combine several distinct movement patterns into a singular distinct movement.

Agility – The ability to minimize transition time from one movement pattern to another.

Balance – The ability to control the placement of the body’s center of gravity in relation to its support base.

Accuracy – The ability to control movement in a given direction or at a given intensity.


From what I've gathered...you are trying/or have become proficient in 2 domains.  Power and strength.  I'm very confident if you trained with me for a week, I could expose your weakness in the other 8 domains. 

And isn't true fitness about being the absolute best physical version of ourselves?

I don't think fitness is quantified solely about squatting 400lbs and deadlifting 500lbs

I don't think fitness is quantified solely by 6 pack abs

I don't think fitness is quantified solely by running a sub 5 minute mile


You have joked how you came in here just to talk strength. Lol. That's fine and dandy.  But, there is soooo many other aspects to fitness.  And balance is a key area.  A gymnast could easily expose your balance weakness, regardless how solid a base you think squatting and barbell work has given you


Each to their own of course.  But I'm gonna call bullshit where I see it.  And this is of course just my opinion too

Hopefully someone who reads this thread can take beneficial things from all our advice :cheers:


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23520796 - 08/08/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You didn't even have to type that just show me data please


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23520799 - 08/08/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You are a lost cause.  I'm not even going to waste my time

Get back to your squats


...don't forget your special shoes :lol:


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23520820 - 08/08/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Balance is just a function of strength, which is why strong people aren't losing balance like weak people.  Training balance is a waste of time.


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23521154 - 08/08/16 05:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Balance is just a function of strength, which is why strong people aren't losing balance like weak people.  Training balance is a waste of time.




"Strong people" don't lose balance?  I'd love to see you walk a slack line even :lol:

Anyone can benefit from training specifically for balance.  Even strong people :rolleyes:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #23521169 - 08/08/16 05:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Balance is just a function of strength, which is why strong people aren't losing balance like weak people.  Training balance is a waste of time.



Yeah that's really a bit misguided man. I have no idea where you got that idea from. Strength and balance are two very different things. You know balance is all about the inner ear right?

Have you been training your inner ear...?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMr. Magic
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked] * 1
    #23521282 - 08/08/16 07:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I didnt read the whole thread, but i got down to 11% body fat while doing P90X3.

I love the P90X series, especially the third one as the workouts are only 30min and focus on the point of working harder for a shorter amount of time.

Anyway im with you masked.
Quote:

Masked said:
We can keyboard warrior all day....there are millions of opinions and hundreds of thousands of articles and editorials and studies that can support my stance or yours.  This proves nothing in the end, because of how subjective it is


I disagree with your statement that balance training is b.s.

You have horse blinders on my friend.  I've heard your ideas across multiple threads now.

And here's my take on it:

I think fitness can be broken up into 10 domains:

Cardiovascular / respiratory endurance – The ability of body systems to gather, process, and deliver oxygen.

Stamina – The ability of body systems to process, deliver, store, and utilize energy.

Strength – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply force.

Flexibility – The ability to maximize the range of motion at a given joint.

Power – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply maximum force in minimum time.

Speed – The ability to minimize the time cycle of a repeated movement.

Coordination – The ability to combine several distinct movement patterns into a singular distinct movement.

Agility – The ability to minimize transition time from one movement pattern to another.

Balance – The ability to control the placement of the body’s center of gravity in relation to its support base.

Accuracy – The ability to control movement in a given direction or at a given intensity.


From what I've gathered...you are trying/or have become proficient in 2 domains.  Power and strength.  I'm very confident if you trained with me for a week, I could expose your weakness in the other 8 domains. 

And isn't true fitness about being the absolute best physical version of ourselves?

I don't think fitness is quantified solely about squatting 400lbs and deadlifting 500lbs

I don't think fitness is quantified solely by 6 pack abs

I don't think fitness is quantified solely by running a sub 5 minute mile


You have joked how you came in here just to talk strength. Lol. That's fine and dandy.  But, there is soooo many other aspects to fitness.  And balance is a key area.  A gymnast could easily expose your balance weakness, regardless how solid a base you think squatting and barbell work has given you


Each to their own of course.  But I'm gonna call bullshit where I see it.  And this is of course just my opinion too

Hopefully someone who reads this thread can take beneficial things from all our advice :cheers:




Good post! If you truly want to be as fit as possible you should focus on all of those things masked listed.
:manofapproval:


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Mr. Magic] * 1
    #23521299 - 08/08/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks man.  :cheers:


I did the original p90x twice, way back in the day.  They were tough at that point in my life

I'm not to sure what the new one's involve, but I do believe that type of cross training hits a lot of the domains of fitness listed above.  The only one I'd say it's lacking a bit in is power and strength.  The weights just never really get anywhere substantial.  No real barbell, heavy squatting, deadlifting or Olympic lifts

But someone could supplement that on the side and have a very well rounded program.

Regardless, I really support what p90x can do for the average person

:manofapproval: :raisemyglass:


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OfflineMr. Magic
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked] * 1
    #23521323 - 08/08/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah it is lacking in that area, but i dont mind it. I found the lifting workouts to be just fine for me! Plus at that time i was lifting at school for football as well lol.

Now that i think about it more id say the original was the best. Ive done the orginal 2-3times back in highschool. Then on to the second and third one.

The third one they shorten the workouts down to 30-45min and focused on short breaks/fast pace. Its still very effective for the average person, and it focuses on all the key areas of fitness.

Theres even a pilates workout in the 3rd one! Yes you should do pilates even if youre a guy...lol


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Mr. Magic]
    #23521411 - 08/08/16 09:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yep, I expect this every time and no one ever refutes my claim with data.  You bring up slack lining, how exactly does one train to balance on a slack line other than using and adapting to a slack line?  The only training in a gym you can do for balance is getting your body stronger because as I said balance is a function of strength.  You disagree so tell me, how would you train someone for better balance on a slack line?  If I am so wrong, where is your data?

Why do people like Rippetoe also believe you can't train balance?


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23521433 - 08/08/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Stop trying to build an defense around specifically "slack lining".  It was an example of many.  And more precisely, the comment said "I would love to see you on a slack line".  And you hit the nail on the head...to improve balance on a slack line, you need to train with one.  Why would you deprive yourself of learning the coordination and balance it takes to do that?  So you can concentrate on squatting more only?

How fast is your mile?

Can you do hand stand walks, holds, hand stand presses and other gymnastics?

Can you snatch a respectable amount? 

Do you have flexibility for advanced yoga?


Could you run and bike the crazy miles fennario does?


So many aspects to fitness

Ripptoe was not proficient in all 10 domains of fitness and is a strength coach.  So all you are doing is continually confirming my position that you have horse blinders on and are completly biased when it comes to "fitness".  Not to mention how ignorant you are to what fitness encompasses.

You yourself said that you "came in here to talk strength only"

Good for you.  You can bring your insights on the 2 domains of fitness (power and strength), while the rest of us talk fitness as a whole


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23521466 - 08/08/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Just provide me data to prove me wrong what is so hard here?

Same goes for balance beam gymnasts.  To get better at balancing on the beam the only things they can do is strength train and practice on the beam.  What other balance training can they do?  You are arguing you can train a balance beam or slack liner for better balance, so what can they do to train themselves for balance exactly?


Lol, again balance is a funtion of strength, prove me wrong.


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23521492 - 08/08/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Why do you keep dodging all my questions but expect the courtesy of answering yours?


*i've already answered your question more than one way.  Balance can be trained for in many ways, strength just being one aspect

Do 15 year old Olympic gymnasts focus solely on squatting and strength?  Of course not. 


It's been proven without a shadow of a doubt that the only knowledge and personal experience you carry in regards to fitness, is in 2 domains.  Strength and power.  And your knowledge is mediocre at best.  You just parrot what google searches you find that support your stance on these 2 domains of fitness

I said it once and I'll say it again, please feel free share your opinions on these 2 particular domains of fitness while the rest of us discuss fitness as a whole

Strength and power are crucial to any good program.  But there is so much more

And not everyone has a performance based goal in this regard

A user earlier talked about asthetics being his goal.

Each to their own.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23521506 - 08/08/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No you haven't, tell me how would you train someone to be better balanced for a slack line or balance beam then?  Why can't you back up anything you claim with data while I can?


Balance training on a bosu ball:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19417231 Read the results, I am providing you with data and you are providing me with how you feel.  If you can't provide me with facts other than your feelings I guess we have to end here :shrug: at least anyone reading along will see that I actually have studies proving my point while you just ramble about your feelings of fitness.


Edited by PreparationH (08/08/16 09:48 AM)


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23521524 - 08/08/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

"Balance can be trained for in many ways"

Again... How?


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23521565 - 08/08/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how_gymnasts_train.htm

An faq describing gymnast training.

"
Gymnasts have amazing upper bodies. While they certainly have great muscular development, their size isn't quite as big in-person at it seems on television. The vast majority of male gymnasts weigh less than 150 lbs.

Their leanness, which primarily is the result of their 30-plus hours of training per week, makes the muscle size they do have appear even larger. However, if you see them out and about in a T-shirt they will look "small" compared to the average bodybuilder.

In Terms Of Weight Training, Is The Focus With It More On Lifting Weights, Or Do Most Top-Level Gymnasts Incorporate A Greater Variety Of Bodyweight Or Plyometric Types Of Movements?

Most high school gymnasts train with only bodyweight exercises and plyometric type movements, although for the upper body this still represents substantial load (a 120-pound. high school gymnast doing a handstand push-up is pushing his entire weight; same for chin-ups).


I can link you too tons more, across all sports and different methodologies that show purely training strength does not make you a well rounded athlete


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23521574 - 08/08/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone reading with half a brain can know that you can find anything to support your stance in the fitness world.  You, a strength guy, are referencing ripptoe for gods sakes.

Anyone with any reading comprehension also won't miss my post where I said that you are a lost cause and I won't waste my time with you :lol:

your "data" is meaningless

It would mean something if you were counteracting someone saying strength doesn't matter, but that isn't the case


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23521581 - 08/08/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That doesn't even say anything about training balance anywhere.


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