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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23517637 - 08/07/16 01:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.builtlean.com/2011/10/13/how-fast-can-you-build-muscle-5-factors-that-affect-muscle-growth/

This link is pretty informative.


I'm 5'7.

At my heaviest, I weighed 198lbs.  I was a blob.  36" waist.

I dropped a bunch of weight in an unhealthy manner, and got to 160lbs.  Yet, the fat around the midsection remained and I still was a 36" waist jean size believe it or not.

In 7 months, I gained around 11lbs(if memory serves me correct) WHILE getting into a 30" waist Jean size.  That's true lean muscle growth.  Burning substantial fat while gaining weight

Measurements is where it is at.  Measure everything.  Keep logs.  Waist size above and below belly button.  Thighs.  Biceps, etc. 

The scale is borderline useless. 

I'm now at almost 2 years and I'm around 177lbs.  I've gained 15-17lbs of weight in about 21 months.  I think it's realistic to assume that 12-14lbs of that is pure muscle based off my measurements. 

But I'm not a lean guy.  For my height, I'd look shredded at 155lbs.  But I'm 177lbs....  The weight a 6 foot guy looks decently ripped at I might add


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23517648 - 08/07/16 02:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not going to latch onto this idea, but it could be an answer to this discrepancy.
From the article you posted.

Quote:

Muscle Memory
If you are 180lb then you decided to train for a marathon, you may lose a solid 20lb of muscle.  So how long will it take you to gain back those 20lb of muscle back?  Answer: Not long at all.  Maybe only a 1-2 months, because your body has a mechanism for restoring the previous homeostasis, which is often referred to as “muscle memory”.




Perhaps I'm just gaining back muscle which was worked for previously, combined with some fat + water
My weight fluctuates dramatically, one year to the next could be a 40'lb difference
And I've been very physically active for about 15 years



Quote:

Measurements is where it is at.  Measure everything.  Keep logs.  Waist size above and below belly button.  Thighs.  Biceps, etc. 




I agree about measurements and proportions, at the very least it is interesting


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Repertoire89] * 1
    #23517663 - 08/07/16 02:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I get painful tendinitis and related injuries all the time in my feet and knees. I know that's related to bad form for the most part. I can run a 33 minute 4 mile at the moment, trying to get it down to 31 minutes though. Been thinking about seeing a physical therapist about running form.

I had ACL and MCL tears in my knee about 10 years ago when I was 16, got surgery. All is good with it, but my leg kind of grew in this odd position over the years. My right foot is canted to the right a little bit at a rest position. I think this is the main cause for my bad form, and the main cause of tendinitis for me. It's hardly noticeable to the onlooker, but I do have a funny kind of step.

I don't really go to the gym much (primarily do push ups, pull ups and crunches if I'm working out alone). Been planning on starting to though. I have a gym a minute walk from my work building, and I get hour and a half lunches. Going to start fitting a 30-50 minute workout in there. Need to read up on good work out routines for someone who is going in solo.


Edited by PatrickKn (08/07/16 02:34 AM)


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23517713 - 08/07/16 03:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

patrickkn look into biking if you are having a lot of jolt related pain. i like to run but also work on my feet and can knock out 15 miles on a bike just as balanced as 4 miles on the run. without all the usual pains.

finally getting back into shape after 7 years. feeling good and have been building up a bit so looking for some progress.

Quote:

Masked said:
Quote:


That's really the only goals their is...





:orly:


What about flexibility, balance, agility, etc?  I think many of those fall under performance. 


"Fitness" has always been a hard thing to quantify.  It is very subjective. 

I personally think it can broken up among 10 domains

Cardiovascular / respiratory endurance – The ability of body systems to gather, process, and deliver oxygen.

Stamina – The ability of body systems to process, deliver, store, and utilize energy.

Strength – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply force.

Flexibility – The ability to maximize the range of motion at a given joint.

Power – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply maximum force in minimum time.

Speed – The ability to minimize the time cycle of a repeated movement.

Coordination – The ability to combine several distinct movement patterns into a singular distinct movement.

Agility – The ability to minimize transition time from one movement pattern to another.

Balance – The ability to control the placement of the body’s center of gravity in relation to its support base.

Accuracy – The ability to control movement in a given direction or at a given intensity.



I rarely meet someone with a goal in becoming proficient in all 10.  Generally, People want to master one or two domains.  And why?  Ego stroke?  Isn't fitness about being the best physical version of a human being that we can be?  And if that answer is yes, I believe it's crucial to train for all of these domains of fitness.


train and eat for performance(performance in and outside the gym).




this is very relevant. some people get very much tunnel vision with fitness.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #23517722 - 08/07/16 03:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ReposadoXochipilli said:
patrickkn look into biking if you are having a lot of jolt related pain. i like to run but also work on my feet and can knock out 15 miles on a bike just as balanced as 4 miles on the run. without all the usual pains.

finally getting back into shape after 7 years. feeling good and have been building up a bit so looking for some progress.




That's some good advice, swimming is easy on the joints as well.
Biking doesn't get my lungs exerted no matter how hard I push, but if you're looking to burn calories :thumbup:


Great to hear you're getting back in shape, have a goal in mind?


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23517732 - 08/07/16 03:31 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

not really, just overall. im 6'2" 175 to 185 depending on diet and drinking.

used to be in decent shape and not in horrible form now. just trying to live a more balanced life. going to be 30 right after new years and would like to be feeling decent and setting myself up for an optimistic future of physical resilience to the detriment of aging.

also do a lot of busy work bending and shaking, lifting, ect. need to keep up with the young ones physically.


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #23517738 - 08/07/16 03:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

the only way i expanded my lungs biking was doing hills, most of that is practice of breath also though. ime if i am lazy and stop breathing well i suffer performance wise, and vice versa if you can keep your breathing going you can float through most failure zones endurance wise. lifting is another beast.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #23517781 - 08/07/16 03:58 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, that's one thing about your industry, there are always kids in their prime you have to work with.
Experience helps though, being able to work more efficiently to use less energy for the same results.


Ah, my legs always slow down before the lungs get to working.
Everyone has different needs though, running works for me, but those joint problems are notoriously problematic. My brother has arthritis in his ankle, very badass athlete, Infantry 10 years, knows what he's doing... but those joints.


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Invisibledanielx
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23518028 - 08/07/16 07:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Masked said:

Can you tell me more about your lifting routine and tell me about what you eat on an average day(but be honest with yourself and me about your average day of eats)

It's all about progressive overload.  You should constantly be seeing an increase in your weight or reps.  Constantly pushing for new PR's (personal records)

What's your bench at?

What's your squat at?

What's your deadlift at?

How many pull-ups can you do?

Do you do any Olympic lifting?

What are your weaknesses inside the gym?




Thanks for your response. I originally first started lifting years ago when all the rage was the whole bro split thing, Mon-legs, wed- chest/tried/shoulders, fri-back/bicep and I add abs between the days. Recently been reading that most people don't recommend this kind of routine for a regular person not on steroids. Ive seen people recommend a split that works muscle groups twice a week such as full body workouts, or upper lower, upper lower. How do you feel about splits?

To preface my macros its important to say I'm built like a bitch- 5'6 at 120lbs. I feel like alot of numbers people throw at me are designed for people twice my size.

On a good day I'll eat more, but this id an average day if I'm being honest with you:

-breakfast: typically a bowl of oat cerial with almond milk (recently cut back on dairy because I was breaking out), banna, and a protein shake for some quick protein because I rarely have the time for a hardy meal.

Lunch: typically sandwhiches on quality bread that has all the seeds and oats in it. Somedays turkey, some days pbj with a ton of pb. Sometimes a can of tuna  Usually add items to this meal, lately its Greek yogurt and baby carrots.


Between: bag of mixed nuts, maybe an apple. Maybe another shake.

Dinner: this is usually where I try to make up and go big. Can be anything from chicken breast with rice/potatoes/pasta/veggies or a huge breakfast burrito with 3-4 eggs loaded up with all the fixings.

After dinner I try to force something down on workout days. On my perfect day might be more pb, or Greek yogurt, etc. Being honest with myself though usually I end up passing out.

Im having trouble even knowing where to begin telling you my exercise numbers. I haven't been doing a very good job tracking, I typically just load the bar up, go for failure every set, and try to keep things heavy enough that I fail at 6-10 reps.

Would you recommend I bring a notebook into the gym and start actually tracking numbers? It's all been going on feel and intuition since ive started. It seems pretty easy to know when I got a workout after the gym, and especially the next day when you can't even wash your back in the shower because your pecs are so sore.

As far as weaknesses, sometimes I think I can lift bigger, but without a spotter I'm afraid I'm going to end up killing myself. Deadlifts aren't a problem, but really pushing myself on excersises such as squat and bench where I cant just drop the bar I'm always slightly tentative. I'm sure this is slowing down my numbers.

I've only been on this routine for a little over a month now, put on 2lbs and I look great in the mirror, but I was in poor shape prior so I realize it's likely mostly noob gains right now.

I also sometimes feel like peoples gaining goals are way unrealistic for me. That's why I asked his weigt. For me to put on 10lbs a month seems ludicrous. I'll considering 1-2lbs a month until next summer a huge win, is that realistic?


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: danielx]
    #23519209 - 08/07/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

how do you feel about splits





Here is where opinions come in.  And goals.  Is your goal overall fitness or building muscles for asthetics?  Do you just want to be stronger?  Or would you like to be stronger and more flexible? 

I described above how I believe fitness can be broken down to 10 domains.  Take a read.  Which domains would you like to be proficient in


That being said, I'm a fan of full body workouts with more emphasis on one particular lift or body part

I also like mixing HIIT with the weights some days and other days not. 

I also believe in seals/marine/boot camp mentality some days.  Push past your comfort limits...destroy body...put it under distress....push your mind past its breaking point, type shit.

You just need to find a program that's right for you.  The most important aspect is one you stick with.  That and progressive overload.  I feel that's essential to continual muscle building progress


Your diet: 

At first glance I estimate the following for daily totals:

2000 calories using the lowest examples.  2800 using the highest examples

Download my fitness pal app.  Use it religiously.  It's so nifty with the bar code scanner.  Track your calories.  You want 3000 calories but only if you are pushing the weight hard and often. 

You should be getting at least 130g of protein a day.  I see you are hitting this target and beyond.  Your fat is a little high.  But I wouldnt worry about fine tuning it at this point. 

You should supplement with a complex protein shake (one with carbs.  Not an isolate)

That would be enough to bump you up right there.  Keep eating the way you do


Now, I see a big error in your training.  Not keeping notes

for sure bring a notepad to the gym. Or make notes on your phone :cheers:  This is a must man

Eventually you will be so dialed in to where you sit on all your reps and weights, that you will constantly be able to push for progressive overload.  Always knowing when you've hit a new PR.  Not only does this motivate you mentally, it keeps you on track physically. 

You start taking notes, switch your isolate protein to a complex/carb protein powder, and train minimum 4 days a week....

I promise you will put on at least 15lbs of hard earned muscle in one year. Hit the weights hard.  Make sure you are squatting, benching, deadlifting.  Ask for spotters or put the safety bars up on squats.  Don't be shy.  Push to failure.  Constantly be striving and hitting that extra 5 lbs or that extra couple reps you couldn't get a couple weeks ago.

Lift big, eat big and fairly clean, take notes, sleep well.  You are well on your way :cheers:


*one final tip...don't forget to eat at appropriate times.  There is a 30 min window after your workout that is essential.  Consume at least 20-30g of protein and 60-90g of carbs.  Something with a high glycemic index, like white potatoes, rice or oats is most efficient. 


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Edited by Masked (08/07/16 02:57 PM)


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23519236 - 08/07/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I was about 240 at my worst, and am now around 190, probably mid 20's in body fat percentage
got to work slow. It takes muscle ninty days or so to replenish and tendons are replaced about every two hundred.
they always say how important foot streangth is on Joe Rogan

I got lazy on upper body and now pullups are much more difficult


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Invisibledanielx
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23519248 - 08/07/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the tips man! Id say my biggest goal right now is aesthetics; however, all the men in my family die of heart attacks so overall heart health is definitely a secondary goal. So if I understood you correctly, you recommend working intensive cardio into my program even though im trying to bulk?

I understand food right after the workout is important, but other then that how important is food timing throughout the day? If I hit my macros at the end of the day, does it matter that some meals like dinner are way larger then other meals?

How do you feel about supplements for someone like me just starting? I bought some dextrose for post workout shakes, bcaas, and protein powder.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23519250 - 08/07/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:

they always say how important foot streangth is on Joe Rogan




:pilkington:


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: danielx]
    #23519251 - 08/07/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Alot of cardiac health is diet, especially if you are active
omega 3s and stuff


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Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/08/16 07:37 AM)


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Invisibledanielx
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23519257 - 08/07/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No doubt, I always take fish oil supplements and try my best to cut out red meat/junk food. I quit smoking a few years ago as well.


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: danielx]
    #23519265 - 08/07/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well, working out for asthetics is out of my ball game :shrug:

From what I gather from the people around here and online:

-no, you don't want intense or excessive cardio in your program.  Don't overdue it on cardio

-keep the rep range between 7-12

-make sure you incorporate squats, deadlift and various presses and bench into your program



your supplements are a good idea.  I suggest that the dextrose is a waste for you with your current diet, post workout shakes and protein shakes.  But it can't hurt to have it handy.  I suggest creatine as well.  One of the only proven supplements

Good luck man :smile:


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Masked]
    #23519296 - 08/07/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I cycle, run, eat well, and do some minor weights and calisthenics.

I am happy with how I am, I don't do the things I do to look a certain way, I do them for the peace of mind they bring me. 

I eat 2500-3800 cals a day depending on what I do, usually 2500-3000 though.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Lucis]
    #23520547 - 08/07/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Rep range of 7+ isn't ever going to get you to your peak potential for strength, need to lift heavier weights.  If you're using weightlifting you can look into Prelipin's chart too which is good, here's a great article on it


http://www.elitefts.com/education/training/sports-performance/prilepins-chart/


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: PreparationH]
    #23520566 - 08/07/16 10:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Rep range of 7+ isn't ever going to get you to your peak potential for strength, need to lift heavier weights.




My understanding in this regard, is that it depends on your goals.
Strength doesn't necessarily mean larger or more defined muscles, and endurance is another idea.

Personally I usually start a weight at 5-6 reps
Keep working with that weight until I can do 3 sets of 12
(With good form, about 6sec negatives and 2sec positives)
Add weight / repeat process

For that days main exercises, finish with statics, using false positives to push those statics to muscle failure.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Fitness errors (stress, calories, form, intensity) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23520610 - 08/07/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What's your goal though?  That rep range is what you would use for hypertrophy.





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