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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Registered: 07/26/16
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A cure for gullibility
    #23477771 - 07/26/16 05:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

New here. I figured the philosophy forum would be my best bet for placing this question.

Simply put, I have no discretion. Things that people tell me (whoever they are) go into my head and I regard them as true. Which was fine as a kid, I read a good deal of animal books and science, things that were fairly concrete.

Until a particular "friend" (for lack of a better word at the moment) begins sending me websites like this: http://forbiddentruth.8k.com/manson_nietzsche.html

Of course my curiosity about everything leads me to follow and read it. To be honest I don't know what to make of such things, and it's not the first time he sent me things like this. Things purporting truth and everything, that usually end up messing me up. The same thing with philosophy, I don't do well with abstract things.

I know I have aspergers, which might be playing a role in this. But I want to know how do people filter through things like this. I remember my teacher told me not to dismiss things outright as crazy or wrong, but I think I'm taking that to the extreme and believing that what people say and write is correct (especially if it's at great length). I could use help with this, as it's not the first time my mind does this.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23477809 - 07/26/16 06:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

what YOU need is a BS detector!

If I opened that website just one glance would set mine off. Not just how it is designed, which is crap, but the deifying of a freaking cult leader of torturers and murderers...?


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23477833 - 07/26/16 06:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
New here. I figured the philosophy forum would be my best bet for placing this question.

Simply put, I have no discretion. Things that people tell me (whoever they are) go into my head and I regard them as true. Which was fine as a kid, I read a good deal of animal books and science, things that were fairly concrete.

Until a particular "friend" (for lack of a better word at the moment) begins sending me websites like this: http://forbiddentruth.8k.com/manson_nietzsche.html

Of course my curiosity about everything leads me to follow and read it. To be honest I don't know what to make of such things, and it's not the first time he sent me things like this. Things purporting truth and everything, that usually end up messing me up. The same thing with philosophy, I don't do well with abstract things.

I know I have aspergers, which might be playing a role in this. But I want to know how do people filter through things like this. I remember my teacher told me not to dismiss things outright as crazy or wrong, but I think I'm taking that to the extreme and believing that what people say and write is correct (especially if it's at great length). I could use help with this, as it's not the first time my mind does this.




Its pretty easy just assume that everything youre told or that you read is a lie


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InvisibleGlameow
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #23477877 - 07/26/16 07:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Look for proof.

Ie. I could go at length as to why i think raising the minimum wage would sink the economy.

However there is proof everywhere that shows the contrary of this.

So look for proof.

2+2 cannot equal 5.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23478268 - 07/26/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

One rule of thumb I like to use is "sombunall."

When it comes to what is true or not, remember:  some but not all, and sometimes but not always.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23478388 - 07/26/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
One rule of thumb I like to use is "sombunall."

When it comes to what is true or not, remember:  some but not all, and sometimes but not always.




Interesting technique but how can I know when to apply it?


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: zzripz]
    #23478392 - 07/26/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
what YOU need is a BS detector!

If I opened that website just one glance would set mine off. Not just how it is designed, which is crap, but the deifying of a freaking cult leader of torturers and murderers...?




Yeah, I thought it was kind of odd how someone was making out a psychopath who manipulated people to be some kind of sage.

But I don't know things like this. I have no idea what to tell was bs or true.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23478439 - 07/26/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
One rule of thumb I like to use is "sombunall."

When it comes to what is true or not, remember:  some but not all, and sometimes but not always.




Interesting technique but how can I know when to apply it?




Whenever you're faced with a proposition involving all or nothing, or 'either-or'.  Usually the truth does not fit into 'either-or' categories, but rather 'both-and', and this is what sombunall is all about.

For example, one could ask whether during World War II, which front was more instrumental in defeating the Nazis:  the Eastern front or the Western front.  Conventional thinking would call for stipulating one or the other, but the truth is really more along the lines of: both were very important, and perhaps the Russian front did more damage to the Nazis in terms of numbers, but without a strong Western front, the Germans would have won.  The defeat of Nazi Germany was in some but not all respects due to the efforts of the Soviets.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23478600 - 07/26/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
I know I have aspergers, which might be playing a role in this. But I want to know how do people filter through things like this.



I can empathise entirely. I'm pretty damn sure I'm mildly on the spectrum but failed the diagnostic. None the less, I have had a pretty much lifelong habit of believing what people tell me; being a man of total honesty myself I guess I thought, for a long time, that others would be too. Only after getting burned a bunch of times did I revert to what is, IMO, one of the most important lessons my mum ever taught me:

Question everything.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23478712 - 07/26/16 01:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
I know I have aspergers, which might be playing a role in this. But I want to know how do people filter through things like this.



I can empathise entirely. I'm pretty damn sure I'm mildly on the spectrum but failed the diagnostic. None the less, I have had a pretty much lifelong habit of believing what people tell me; being a man of total honesty myself I guess I thought, for a long time, that others would be too. Only after getting burned a bunch of times did I revert to what is, IMO, one of the most important lessons my mum ever taught me:

Question everything.




I remember being told that. But I get a lot of questions and the "crazy" doesn't get out of my head.

I tried that cynical route but it's exhausting to me. But I know I can't just believe what people say is true just because they say it. For some reason I think the more someone writes or talks the smarter they are and that I should believe them:

This of course makes me fall prey to many crazy rants on the net


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23478935 - 07/26/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
the "crazy" doesn't get out of my head.



What kind of crazy are you talking about?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23478988 - 07/26/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
the "crazy" doesn't get out of my head.



What kind of crazy are you talking about?




Something the along the lines of conspiracy theories or things like the link I just posted. I remember Terrance McKenna said something along the lines of how political correctness tells us that all ideas have some value (no matter how batshit they sound), something about there being no difference between shit and shinola. So you end up giving crazy ideas a voice when they have no business being taken seriously. At least that's what I understand from that.

But it's my weak mind that leaves me prey to such ideas, to be unable to say some ideas have no merit or are "not even wrong". I think part of me believes that just because it stays on the internet that it must be right in some way. Even though looking at that now I see it's stupid to believe such.

The end result is having many conflicting ideas in my head and not knowing how to settle which is junk and what isn't. Much anxiety.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23479011 - 07/26/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Have you ever considered the fact that you can't actually 'know' anything? It's all fucking hearsay man.

It sounds like you could really do with a good dose of meditation in your life. You're taking your thoughts way too seriously IMO. A little practice in observing just how batshit crazy and impermanent your thoughts are could really serve you well IMO.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23479090 - 07/26/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Have you ever considered the fact that you can't actually 'know' anything? It's all fucking hearsay man.

It sounds like you could really do with a good dose of meditation in your life. You're taking your thoughts way too seriously IMO. A little practice in observing just how batshit crazy and impermanent your thoughts are could really serve you well IMO.




You may have a point. Too much anxiety and bad influence. I fear one of these days I'll snap and do something horrible.

But even if the things are just thoughts in my head, I read them from somewhere else. Although I guess I shouldn't take too seriously someone who deifiys Manson. Also as a rule most websites with the word truth in them are probably bs anyway


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23479133 - 07/26/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The only truth you have in this life is your truth IMO. The only way I've managed to conclude what my own truth is is by reading multiple sources on any subject and then following my gut.

You know that gut feeling?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23479150 - 07/26/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

FlowerofTitania said:
the "crazy" doesn't get out of my head.



What kind of crazy are you talking about?




Something the along the lines of conspiracy theories or things like the link I just posted. I remember Terrance McKenna said something along the lines of how political correctness tells us that all ideas have some value (no matter how batshit they sound), something about there being no difference between shit and shinola. So you end up giving crazy ideas a voice when they have no business being taken seriously. At least that's what I understand from that.

But it's my weak mind that leaves me prey to such ideas, to be unable to say some ideas have no merit or are "not even wrong". I think part of me believes that just because it stays on the internet that it must be right in some way. Even though looking at that now I see it's stupid to believe such.

The end result is having many conflicting ideas in my head and not knowing how to settle which is junk and what isn't. Much anxiety.




Alright let us take a Mr David Ike as an example for a moment. SOME of the things he says make sense, but then he will start on about Reptilian aliens, and how the Queen of England and others of the elite shapeshift into lizards. He also goes on about the moon being artificial and base to a load of evil aliens who hate our guts. All of this is BS! Has he evidence for anything about this? No. it is absolute raving crap and totally undermines some of the sensible stuff he says which he has usually got himself from other sources.
This makes me wonder if he is a deliberate disinfo agent placed to ridicule worthwhile investigation into what is going on in the world, though he has many followers. This just shows me how gullible people can be

Another example is the Scientology cult. EVEn though we know it was founded by a science fiction and fantasy author yet many people, including rich ones, actually believe the ludicrous crap which is Scientology, and will sign billion year contracts actually beliving this is going to be a long term project LOL I mean you could not make this sht up yet someone has and hey presto, FOLLOWERS and a huge business!!

So stuff like this has made me curious WHY people can believe such utter BS. What are the roots of such gullibility? And I think it is because of an ancient toxic deep form of divide and control which divdes the person from their very own nature and the land, and from there they are extremely unstable and easily manipulated to believe any nonesense---like 'Gods' who send down 'only Sons' as blood debt, and they believe all this literally. And Devils who will punish them for ever and ever and,,,etc, and Prophets who claim (though there's no actual evidence he even existed, as there isn't for Jesus, nor the Buddha) to have been in contact with 'Allah' and he doesn't like gays and now people must stone them....and materialism which Scientism claims is all-that-there-is


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23479373 - 07/26/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
The only truth you have in this life is your truth IMO. The only way I've managed to conclude what my own truth is is by reading multiple sources on any subject and then following my gut.

You know that gut feeling?




Sadly I don't, I usually use my head


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23479726 - 07/26/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Also I think this guy has to be some kind of psychopath/narcissist given his page.

https://forbiddentruthblog.com/about-me/comment-page-1/#comment-10692

He's like some force of hatred whose full of himself.


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Offlinepsychobla
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Re: A cure for gullibility *DELETED* [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23488004 - 07/29/16 01:11 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by psychobla

Reason for deletion: hax


--------------------
A bunch of jokes, with a grain of truth in each.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

What will be, will be. :pipesmoke:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: psychobla]
    #23488142 - 07/29/16 03:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

an d this includes questioning what T.McKenna put down down which was very Gnostic and Transhumanist oriented!


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23488575 - 07/29/16 08:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think it would be a fair statement to say that your realizing your own gullibility is a step in the right direction itself. If only more people would naturally question themselves and the way they think, the world might be leaps and bounds ahead of where it is now. You're already questioning things, you could easily be well on your way to learning how to think critically. For some people, (arguably most) that only comes with formal university level education. If you find yourself questioning things to the point that you don't know what's real anymore, pick up a beginners physics book and go bananas.

As a one, Carl Sagan put it, "The brain is like a muscle. When it is in use we feel very good. Understanding is joyous." as well as
"skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense."

And if you overthink overthinking, you're just going to tire yourself out. Instead, go forth and learn stuff about the universe. Stimulate yourself intellectually. Take that "crazy" and harvest it, utilize it, turn it into something useful and fun. To a confused, inquisitive, thirsty mind, new knowledge based in reason is practically the water. Thinking critically can be thought of as an acquired skill that like learning new mathematical concepts, or a new language, once you have some of it down, you start to see bigger pictures, finding patterns on various scales, and those new ways of learning through application, start to come naturally and you can build upon them, finding more new ways of thinking and applying logic. Like getting an ear for a language, or developing powerful algebra.

Break the cycle, rise above, focus on science.

Don't take my word for it. These are just some thoughts that came to mind having read your initial few posts. Use your noggin, it's what it's there for.

BTW, that link you posted stinks to high hell of shit straight from the bull's butthole, but you figured that out with relative ease. How? With logic. Floating up there in your head, buckets of readily available logic to put out that flaming pile of bullshit.


:twocents:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: FlowerofTitania]
    #23488905 - 07/29/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If you KNOW it is happening then you can stop or reduce this behavior. As for myself. I am convinced that only I am smart enough to be right so I believe little that others say...lol.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineFlowerofTitania
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Re: A cure for gullibility [Re: Into The Woods]
    #23489921 - 07/29/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Into The Woods said:
I think it would be a fair statement to say that your realizing your own gullibility is a step in the right direction itself. If only more people would naturally question themselves and the way they think, the world might be leaps and bounds ahead of where it is now. You're already questioning things, you could easily be well on your way to learning how to think critically. For some people, (arguably most) that only comes with formal university level education. If you find yourself questioning things to the point that you don't know what's real anymore, pick up a beginners physics book and go bananas.

As a one, Carl Sagan put it, "The brain is like a muscle. When it is in use we feel very good. Understanding is joyous." as well as
"skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense."

And if you overthink overthinking, you're just going to tire yourself out. Instead, go forth and learn stuff about the universe. Stimulate yourself intellectually. Take that "crazy" and harvest it, utilize it, turn it into something useful and fun. To a confused, inquisitive, thirsty mind, new knowledge based in reason is practically the water. Thinking critically can be thought of as an acquired skill that like learning new mathematical concepts, or a new language, once you have some of it down, you start to see bigger pictures, finding patterns on various scales, and those new ways of learning through application, start to come naturally and you can build upon them, finding more new ways of thinking and applying logic. Like getting an ear for a language, or developing powerful algebra.

Break the cycle, rise above, focus on science.

Don't take my word for it. These are just some thoughts that came to mind having read your initial few posts. Use your noggin, it's what it's there for.

BTW, that link you posted stinks to high hell of shit straight from the bull's butthole, but you figured that out with relative ease. How? With logic. Floating up there in your head, buckets of readily available logic to put out that flaming pile of bullshit.


:twocents:




"The most insidious thing in the world is nonsense that sounds just plausible enough to listen to."

I feel like that's me in a nutshell. I try to question, but I get nagging thoughts like "what if I'm wrong?" I know that link (and to be honest that entire site) is bullshit. But I worry that I'm wrong. That I'm not smart enough to take it apart, or that I'm not confident in my ability to argue against it. This leads to me faltering and accepting such bullshit as truth, despite logic saying otherwise.

If it's a skill then I'm in dire need of training. I never really questioned things before and even then I am afraid to take a stand and be wrong about it. Yes I could be right, but being wrong is more terrifying.

Quotes get me all the time because I view them as some arcane wisdom from people who have made a place in history (despite the fact that just because someone said it doesn't make it true, but that's not how I see it).


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