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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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When and how...
    #23476351 - 07/25/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Was the human language discovered? Obviously back when we were hunter gatherers , there had to be communication to build tools  , hunting supplies and pretty much everything needed for survival and reproduction of species  that built up to human language! But was there actually a beginning ? Or did it happen all over earth in different places as the human evolved? Im just so intrigued by language for its how we communicate ! I pretty much wanna know when it started and maybe how... I wonder what they thought about time before there  language? The clouds motion? Day and night?


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54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: When and how... [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23476429 - 07/25/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I studied this a little in school, and the best answer you're going to get is that nobody really knows.  The main problem from a scientific angle is that there is no empirical evidence to consult.  Fossils and archaeological evidence don't really shed much light on it.  Since, of course, the existence of writing only goes back a few thousand years, there is no way to trace backward to find the origins of spoken language.  It's simply a mystery.

Wikipedia actually has a surprisingly good article about the topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_language

That should get you started on some of the guesses.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: When and how... [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23476452 - 07/25/16 06:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Man isnt that profound ... the very way we started to communicate is a mystery!? I guess I find that beautiful in it's own sense, I've read the wiki page it's awesome! Perhaps we can only theorize!


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: When and how... [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23477505 - 07/26/16 02:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you believe in evolution it's obvious that early humans learnt to identify body language first, seeing as they were yet unable to speak.

If that were the case it can be presumed that practicing abstract body languages such as Karma-Sutra, Dance, Theater etc. would aid in improving cognitive function.

I don't know how our brains grew or what genes are responsible but because the human brain grew immensely as it evolved humans we're capable of greater motor function and cognitive capabilities.

I think that the development of body languages in early human societies had a great influence on the evolution of human psychology and likely lead to the later development of language.


And yes these are only my opinions.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (07/26/16 02:18 AM)


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: When and how... [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23477616 - 07/26/16 03:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
the best answer you're going to get is that nobody really knows.



This, absolutely this, for all the reasons Divided Quantum outlined. 

However, there is a whole lot of good wild speculation going on about it. My favorite piece of 100% speculation is the idea that gestural language may have developed before spoken language. Infants can learn a gestural language before they can learn spoken language, even basic gestures would have been very useful to a pack hunting species, and sign language is interpreted in brain by the exact same areas as spoken language.

Again, this is all just wild speculation with zero evidence, but it's one of my favorite little cool theories that I've heard. I just like the image of a bunch of quiet human hunters gesturing to each other in the forest I guess.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: When and how... [Re: nooneman]
    #23477749 - 07/26/16 05:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That's a good way of saying body language.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinezzripz
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Re: When and how... [Re: nooneman]
    #23478029 - 07/26/16 08:27 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

here's my views~~ gestural language IS spoken language.

I remember having this magic mushroom trip once and the people I was tripping with just shouldn't shut the F up. But I just shut my eyes and listened to them talking and I began hearing gestural inflection VERY deeply, so much so it made me laugh. One person wanted to know what I was giggling at. Too busyy chatting shit to be aware
So what this says to me is that like many of us have become unconscious of body language, it is same for the deeper gestural language behind words--the tone. May people pretend and watching and listening deeper reveals more what they are feeling. So there is that

Then we can look at how the invading predatory groups that invaded Native people and they FORCED them to unlearn their native languages. This was truly soul destroying for these people because their language was deeply connected with the land.

I think we can get a hint what happened to OUR indigenous ancestors from these more 'recent' events. THAT the language WE speak has been fabricated by a mindset that is divided from the land, and from itself.

The syntax we use omits the sense of reality being a verb--happening, for example. So we will say sht like 'it is raining'--what is this 'it'? and 'the pot is made of clay' as though there exists some abstract 'pot' which is different from the 'clay' is.

All other species use language. Gestural and cocal form a continuum, but we are made to be unconscious OF this, and so wonder 'when was 'language' 'discovered' as though it is some object that is apart from ALL life instead of being inherent in life eternally


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: When and how... [Re: zzripz]
    #23480787 - 07/26/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I think human language started with a baby's cry that follows childbirth.

The message comes across loud and clear.


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Offlinetump
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Re: When and how... [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23481072 - 07/27/16 02:17 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

We only need language as a tool for larger group settings. If i remember correctly we started it so we could govern others with. To count taxes


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: When and how... [Re: tump]
    #23481819 - 07/27/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tump said:
We only need language as a tool for larger group settings. If i remember correctly we started it so we could govern others with. To count taxes




Actually, language predates civilization by quite a stretch.  We know this because certain societies that still exist as hunter-gatherers or small-scale agriculturalists speak language, and have very old oral traditions.  They are essentially windows to the past, as they have been preserved in that state by lack of interference for thousands of years.

In fact, it was written language that was actually invented for the first time in order to coordinate slave trading (anthropologists think).


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinezeric
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Re: When and how... [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23486398 - 07/28/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What do you guys think of Terence Mckenna Stoned Ape theory?


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OfflineMykoMykoAnay
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Re: When and how... [Re: zeric]
    #23486414 - 07/28/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

We were "speaking" before we were anything that resembles modern humans. Now an alphabet is a different story, just like numbers we had the concept of them but no one had a need to write them down further than perhaps crude representation in the sand or on the trunk of a tree. Like DividedQuantumM said there wasn't a need to write stuff down until complex, abstract, records needed to be kept.


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"He who seeks freedom for anything but freedom's self is made to be a slave."
Old Regime (1856)


Edited by MykoMykoAnay (07/28/16 04:33 PM)


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OfflineMykoMykoAnay
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Re: When and how... [Re: MykoMykoAnay]
    #23486439 - 07/28/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Terence Mckenna has some pretty interesting stuff but it's all starting from one point, fetish might be a better descriptor without the negative connotation, trying to draw conclusions that fit within that context. That being said I'm sure chemicals have played a huge part in our evolution. Whether it was from our environment or naturally occurring variances in the human body, I.E. what we now label as psychological disorders and cognitive anomalies.


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"He who seeks freedom for anything but freedom's self is made to be a slave."
Old Regime (1856)


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Offlinezeric
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Re: When and how... [Re: MykoMykoAnay]
    #23486511 - 07/28/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I understand what you mean. But unfortunately the answer to this question is forever lost in the depts of history.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: When and how... [Re: zeric] * 1
    #23487904 - 07/29/16 12:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMykoMykoAnay
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Re: When and how... [Re: zeric]
    #23488197 - 07/29/16 03:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zeric said:
I understand what you mean. But unfortunately the answer to this question is forever lost in the depts of history.




Lol, you asked the question, man.


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"He who seeks freedom for anything but freedom's self is made to be a slave."
Old Regime (1856)


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: When and how... [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23500885 - 08/02/16 07:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Could it be the language reset button was pushed at Babel?


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Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


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