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InvisibleJacobStorm
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Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 1,499
Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23495750 - 07/31/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

morty422 said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
The larger grain size and elevated endospore counts mean that in addition to have far less inoculation power and making spawn runs take longer with smaller yields, you also have to sterilize it longer or run the risk of the spawn going bacterial.

Popcorn can be made to work, I used it myself when starting. But it's the shittiest spawn there is no question. It's expensive and sub par from every possible aspect. If it's the only grain you can source then use it. Otherwise it's better to just eat it.




To add more emphasis on why I dislike popcorn. I PC'd for 110 minutes.
.....110.....
I escaped with 2 jars out of 12...

Wtf, you know?

But hey, I never tried it-had some laying around. Had some extra MS syrines of B+ and thought, why not try? Now I know why you shouldn't try...




Same here. I have a grip of it and thought it'd save a few bucks to use it but I'm glad I found this out. I'll spend the extra money to avoid all this trouble.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Registered: 07/06/16
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: JacobStorm]
    #23495912 - 07/31/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I also soaked them for about 36 hours. So the idea of soaking popcorn for at least 24 hours and then PCing for 90 minutes so the 'endospores can germinate and then be killed' is bullshit to me.

WBS/RYE for me for now on. Never had any trouble with them.

No need to fix what is not broken...


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InvisibleJacobStorm
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Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 1,499
Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23495927 - 07/31/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

morty422 said:
I also soaked them for about 36 hours. So the idea of soaking popcorn for at least 24 hours and then PCing for 90 minutes so the 'endospores can germinate and then be killed' is bullshit to me.

WBS/RYE for me for now on. Never had any trouble with them.

No need to fix what is not broken...




Huh I was following a tek that didn't involve soaking. Anymore I just pester cron if I'm worried the tek is out dated. We should have known tho I mean how many corn grows do we ever see?? lol.


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azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: JacobStorm]
    #23497261 - 07/31/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

JacobStorm said:
Quote:

morty422 said:
I also soaked them for about 36 hours. So the idea of soaking popcorn for at least 24 hours and then PCing for 90 minutes so the 'endospores can germinate and then be killed' is bullshit to me.

WBS/RYE for me for now on. Never had any trouble with them.

No need to fix what is not broken...




Huh I was following a tek that didn't involve soaking. Anymore I just pester cron if I'm worried the tek is out dated. We should have known tho I mean how many corn grows do we ever see?? lol.




Yeah... I used it once about 4-5 years ago and had really awesome results. Upon getting back into p. cubensis, I thought I was going to have another successful grow. Now I know that I just got lucky back then!

If you were thinking about following a tek that didn't involve soaking the grains, then you will inevitably come across contamination. Popcorn has a LOT of nasties in it that you have to get rid of somehow. Pressure cooking the grains by themselves won't do it for you. You have to let all the endospores hiding in the grains germinate and then kill them. The best way to do that is through soaking - and even then, you still have a bad chance of killing them all. I would use another grain if I were you. Popcorn is just a bad thing waiting to turn into an ever worse thing.


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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23498055 - 08/01/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I am fairly sure the consensus is turning on the endospore germinating concept.. Certainly grains do contain endospores (I guess), but soaking/simmering only serves to hydrate the grain.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: Mycologist217]
    #23498071 - 08/01/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:



clostridum butyricum from brewers grain(rye malt) it's very heat resistant because of the spores. it is responsible for the most part in the rancid smell if you let grains soak too long. it will survive the boil and is why your grains go bad and smell like puke and Greek feet feta if you don't sterilize them after your grain prep.

it forms endospores even culture on anaerobic plates with an abidance of nutrients. as you can see some subset of the population finds it appropriate to form endospores despite not having "bad conditions" as conditions get worse spore formation goes up. I would be nearly positive you end up with more endospores if you do a soak than if you skip a soak, either way these DO get killed by a PC in a sufficient cycle.





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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: Mycologist217]
    #23498075 - 08/01/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

its always been about hydrating grains as far as I'm concerned, havent seen anyone say the germinating endospores thing this side of the millenium :shrug:

but another point is no TEK says dunk for at least 24 hrs, most says 24 hrs tops because as you've seen 36 hrs dunk is :puke:


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: spacechildo]
    #23498175 - 08/01/16 11:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I've used those exact trays the same way u are and they actually worked pretty fucking good. I just used them like a regular mono. I missed them once in a while if the surface seemed to be drying out too much....

One thing though,  I filled the foil pan all the way up so the holes were at substrate level...  :thumbup:


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Edited by FreeWorldOrder (08/01/16 12:12 PM)


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Invisiblemorty422
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Posts: 988
Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #23498327 - 08/01/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks Everyone.

I work in a mushroom operation that grows oysters (mainly) and a few other edibles but I am completely new to indoor techniques and small tubs, etc...
We have a few 10'x15' greenhouses and a small indoor grow room we have been working on the past few days, we are currently in the building process of the indoor room. Our shelves come in tomorrow.
We are straw guys mostly, we seldom use coir. Blah blah.
Anywho...

I have not attempted a P. Cubensis grow in about 4-5 years and when I did it was short lived.
I will definitely read up more on the endospore thing.

I am curious to see how this tray will turn out.
Updated pics coming soon. Currently on mobile and not at the hizzy.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23498425 - 08/01/16 01:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Do you make your own spawn or buy it? At any rate oysters are like the 800lb gorilla of the myco world. They tend to do as they please and unless a contam like baccilus is totally out of control, they can simply just overpower it. No fucks given.


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InvisibleJacobStorm
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Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 1,499
Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: Mad Season]
    #23498510 - 08/01/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
:whathesaid:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:



clostridum butyricum from brewers grain(rye malt) it's very heat resistant because of the spores. it is responsible for the most part in the rancid smell if you let grains soak too long. it will survive the boil and is why your grains go bad and smell like puke and Greek feet feta if you don't sterilize them after your grain prep.

it forms endospores even culture on anaerobic plates with an abidance of nutrients. as you can see some subset of the population finds it appropriate to form endospores despite not having "bad conditions" as conditions get worse spore formation goes up. I would be nearly positive you end up with more endospores if you do a soak than if you skip a soak, either way these DO get killed by a PC in a sufficient cycle.








This is a little gold nugget of info thanks Mad.

OP After what Pasty said (in this thread or another) about all the cons of popcorn I wont use that except in a last ditch effort and only option.


--------------------
Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos

Ethnobotanical garden forum

Inocuole tea TEK

azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23498563 - 08/01/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Do you make your own spawn or buy it? At any rate oysters are like the 800lb gorilla of the myco world. They tend to do as they please and unless a contam like baccilus is totally out of control, they can simply just overpower it. No fucks given.




We make our own spawn. We have been using rye grain as our spawn material for the past 3 weeks-ish. We use spawn bags that are inoculated with liquid culture. The liquid culture is developed from agar. I believe it is a 6-7 generation culture but I would have to ask or look at some of our logs. We keep incredibly detailed logs and I can look up just about anything I want if you have any questions. If I can't look it up/can't find it- I can ask one of my managers if you are curious.

Our main substrate is straw and we use hanging logs in our greenhouses.

The owner is always experimenting with things. We have a few mini projects including some laundry basket-type grows and some other tray type experiments going on. I live in a very populated area and we deal with over 200 restaurants including a few Michelin star rated clients.

It is the best job I have ever had and I am honored to be around such awesome people in the industry. The only downside is-talk about P. Cubensis is frowned upon heavily and I am not at liberty to discuss indoor grows with any of my co-workers or managers. I wouldn't want to hurt my relationship with my superiors, etc...

So.... I come here... hehe


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23498609 - 08/01/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

LC to spawn bags is my go to if I ever do another big grow. Pick my favorite clone, and bam! Too easy. I think the biggest stumbling block for active work, other than different fruiting needs, is getting good cultures down. Ya gotta do it all yourself. Sure ms is decent a lot of the time, but when it's not it sucks hard. Plus I only ever had one ms grow that could rival my best clones for yield.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23498635 - 08/01/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
LC to spawn bags is my go to if I ever do another big grow. Pick my favorite clone, and bam! Too easy. I think the biggest stumbling block for active work, other than different fruiting needs, is getting good cultures down. Ya gotta do it all yourself. Sure ms is decent a lot of the time, but when it's not it sucks hard. Plus I only ever had one ms grow that could rival my best clones for yield.




Well. If you ever want a badass oyster culture you know where to find me. It's like we're growing small planets over here...

I have some of your mini-rounds ready to go as we speak. I'm excited to begin isolating genetics in the B+ grow I have colonizing... after I get a good tissue sample I am going to begin a LC and do the same! I'd love to make a log of B+ or a few monotubs. I will probably go with the logs as I have more experience with them.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23498648 - 08/01/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Wish I could do oysters but I can't take the risk of them sporulating. One of my dogs is so alergic that she will swell up like a balloon while breaking out in hives if she comes into contact with em. Even outside is a no go.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23498660 - 08/01/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Aww. Sad day.

Oysters are delicious!


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InvisibleJacobStorm
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23498839 - 08/01/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Wish I could do oysters but I can't take the risk of them sporulating. One of my dogs is so alergic that she will swell up like a balloon while breaking out in hives if she comes into contact with em. Even outside is a no go.




Wow thats pretty extrem what terrible luck!


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Ethnobotanical garden forum

Inocuole tea TEK

azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: JacobStorm]
    #23499050 - 08/01/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Alright,

Day 7 here on the tub.

Not seeing any moisture on the substrate yet-so I'm wondering how it's dialed in.

I'm thinking I might tape off the 4 holes made on the top of the lid. I do not think they are needed and I think it is lowering the humidity level possibly? Not sure... Need advice on hole configuration...

The walls of the lid look good though, I can see condensation on the side and small areas where droplets have ran down the side as well.

When is it okay to take the lid of this thing? I'd love to be able to give it some cool mist love if I can.

This grow is far from sterile at this point, but opening the lid might invite some nasties in? Any advice on taking the lid off yet? Should I wait until I see a more uniform layer of mycelium on the top?

Thanks!



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InvisibleJacobStorm
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Registered: 07/21/15
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23499080 - 08/01/16 05:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Check this out dude. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21032606#21032606

I did this hole placement for a BRF cake spawn in a tub-aware a little larger than a pickle jar and it turned out well. Same for the picture thats my avatar.


--------------------
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Ethnobotanical garden forum

Inocuole tea TEK

azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Experimental (for me) Grow - The mini-mono-tube-thingy [Re: morty422]
    #23499112 - 08/01/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

morty422 said:
This grow is far from sterile at this point, but opening the lid might invite some nasties in? Any advice on taking the lid off yet? Should I wait until I see a more uniform layer of mycelium on the top?




Neither fruiting not spawning are sterile processes. Introduction of FAE will not hurt the spawn run, in fact people lately have taken to doing the spawn run in fruiting conditions. While that would be a horrible practice for a species like Hericium, for cubes it won't hurt a thing.


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