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OfflineDrMushroom
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is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer
    #23473214 - 07/24/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Basically verm is very expensive here, theres few places to buy it and you can only get the premium stuff which costs a bunch. Ive almost considered incinerating spent or contaminated cakes to reclaim the lost verm.
I know you cant really substitute verm outright for PF cakes but what about a 50/50 mix or something that is almost as good as 100% verm?

Something that makes it practical when im increasing the quantity of jars.
Right now im having mixed success trying to get fruits from all the different spores ive collected from trades and giveaways, namely that strains i dont particularly want are doing super well like my golden teacher and pf classic, while strains i really really want backup prints for like aa+, pesa and orrissa are going through every single problem they can experience. The pesa managed to go from looking almost like its going to pin, to a 20g in vitro fruit 2 or 3 unsupervised days later, even though the jar was only half colonized. Then theres this and that and the other thing all going on.

Im going through allot of verm so, im fine sacrificing quality over quantity for the time being until i can make enough prints of all the different strains i have. Plus im still figuring out what strain ill eventually do on bulk, which unfortunately seems to be looking like golden teacher, because it is growing so reliably.

So, what are my options here, i have free access to straw and sawdust and have a bucket of coir id like to get rid of. Otherwise what else is there i can add to verm to thin its use out?


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OfflineSpinScratch
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23473254 - 07/24/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

time to up your game and make a CVG monotub.


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OfflineYerow
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: SpinScratch]
    #23473296 - 07/24/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah i would just drop the whole Pf cakes and go to bulk, then you can make straw tubs, coir tubs or sawdust tubs for some edibles

Spinscratch, CVG is coir VERM gypsum, so would not help him a whole lot. But you can do coir/straw :thumbup:

Also OP, there are all sorts of different types of tek for growing out of jars, using the materials you have at hand.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22512011

You could make a mix of straw and coir in jars and probably get decent results, you would need something like LI or a stronger innoculant than just a spore syringe

When you do bulk there is not really much need for verm, you can substitute it with most other things


Edited by Yerow (07/24/16 07:10 PM)


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OfflineSpinScratch
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: Yerow]
    #23473330 - 07/24/16 07:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

he asked what he can mix verm with to stretch it... which is coir and gypsum for CVG.

you can also cut verm out of the equation entirely and grow on horse manure. (are there many horses in Australia?) or the easiest thing to do it just make a straw log like we do for oysters.


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OfflineYerow
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: SpinScratch]
    #23473342 - 07/24/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah i just removed verm from the equation for him, seeing as he said it was expensive. In no way should verm ever be expensive! So fuck that and just use your free straw with whatever you can get thats cheap, like your coir and whatnot. :smile:


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OfflineBaronVonBud
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: Yerow]
    #23473470 - 07/24/16 08:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What is expensive ? Verm is on Amazon


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OfflineYerow
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: BaronVonBud]
    #23473478 - 07/24/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:facepalm:


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: Yerow]
    #23473680 - 07/24/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i did also mention, i do plan to try bulk but only after i try all the different strains i have. the two going for me at the moment are golden teacher and PF classic, the latter being useless on bulk and the former, i do not like because i can half ass a syringe made with a little glucose and windex in an aquarium turned on its side in place of an SAB with really old presumably dormant or dead spores i didnt store properly, and it comes out clean and thriving, yet i try again but doing it properly with fresh clean spores (confirmed on agar), and it arbitrarily contaminates as though the spore water was contaminated yet most dont show any signs of anything and the myc grows fine.
I just dont have good luck with it. effort seems to not correlate to the output.

I want to check all the strains out before i pick one, and i have quite a few at this point but also make enough jars that ill have plenty of each strain in prints by the time im done with them all.

When i go bulk i want to stick to a particular strain.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23473846 - 07/24/16 09:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What makes you say PF classic is useless on bulk?  What does that even mean?


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: Inocuole]
    #23474240 - 07/25/16 01:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It was my understanding that pf classic cant be grown on anything other than BRF cakes, without poor yield ,great difficulty in avoiding contamination and/or difficulty getting it to fruit. Casing being a different story.
So, if my pf classic is the very same strain that was grown for brf cakes, i imagine it would be beyond me to get anything out of it.


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23474250 - 07/25/16 01:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

PF classic is just a plain cube strain.

Only mutant strains like KSSS, APE, and PE do not grow well on PF tek cakes.

If u cant buy verm, id suggest going to bulk with grains and coir (for example).


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23474392 - 07/25/16 03:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm pretty sure PF classic does fine in a mono.  It's not like they'd have even known better when they made the "strain" considering that monotubs didn't exist.


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: Inocuole]
    #23477502 - 07/26/16 02:00 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

hmm, i guess that changes things then


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OfflineBaronVonBud
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23478173 - 07/26/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Isn't PF classic named after the guy that PF tek is named after and not named after the tek ?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: BaronVonBud]
    #23478187 - 07/26/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes..


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: BaronVonBud]
    #23478275 - 07/26/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Someone posted a mono canopy pic of PFC a while back, I was thinking it was Eat but I may be wrong. Whoever it was they were some beautiful caps.


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23480736 - 07/26/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

with that settled, what other options do i have for diluting/partially substituting verm?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23480752 - 07/26/16 11:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If there were something that functionally served as verm I don't think we'd specifically use and recommend verm.  I mean, you can dilute with coir, but verm is useful in any substrate recipe, it retains water better than basically anything else.

I can't think of a single substance that has the same properties without having other properties that would cause problems.


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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: Inocuole]
    #23480802 - 07/26/16 11:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Verm serves to hold water, prevent compaction and provide trace minerals. In a cakes scenario you can substitute sawdust or fuel pellets for verm with woodlovers and so I imagine you could do the same for cubes. You just won't have quite as good of results as cubes won't get jack from the wood other than water.

I saw someone linked my straw tek. I would endorse that fully. You can use the shorter pint size pp5s to get faster colonization. Can even fruit them the same as cakes or case and top fruit. Straw colonized invitro with brf nutes will flush far longer than standard brf cakes and produce better yields IME.


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OfflineMadSeasonStudent
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Re: is there a cheap substitute i can mix with vermiculite to make it last longer [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23481435 - 07/27/16 07:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know about anyone else but, I buy Verm from Menards for about 15 dollars and I get 3.5 cube feet of it. Lasts a very long time.


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