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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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LI Vessel (updated with results)
    #23472958 - 07/24/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I am interested in a little DIY eberbach, I have made one before like the tribal container but I couldnt find the right pp5 container at the time and it sucked. I am interested in a basic one with just a regular mouth jar and an oster blade connected with the jar ring, however I have poured different things out of jars before and it sucks, so I really like the idea of the Ball sippy cup lids for pouring it, I assume I would just PC the jar, water and blade attached together and the sippy cup lid separate and wrapped in foil, and attach that after blending?
Is anyone around here familiar with doing it this way? Or have a better technique?



UPDATE, here are the results after your help guys, thanks Munch:cool:

Here you guys go, spawn bags 7 days after using the blender and a jar,





I also made master jars properly from wedges the day before as well in case this failed, here is one at day 8



The spawn bags are 7-8 lb.'s.
What I enjoyed about the LI was being able to get a foot on some quick spawn bags while getting traditional masters together at the same time.

I had also took LI to quart jars when I made these bags and they were done and spawned yesterday, 6 days in total for the jars. Gotta say I am now a fan:cool:
Thanks for the help you guys!


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/12/16 11:02 AM)


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23473049 - 07/24/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i was actually considering doing something similar for Munch's blenderless LI. was going to either make or find a lid with a spout, like your talking about, and PC it on an empty jar, with foil over it, and after i made the blenderless LI, just switch the lid from the empty jar to the LI jar(all in SAB, of course), and then take the foil off and pour. if any LI is left over, I would just switch the previous lid back on for storage.

been trying to find a lid with a spout for a while, in local stores.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: mupetmower]
    #23473120 - 07/24/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ace hardware has the ball sippy cup lids I know for sure, I wish there was a ring you could get for your jars like the pyrex media bottles have, that would make pouring LI out of a glass jar easy.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23473132 - 07/24/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Any reason you don't wana just suck up the LI into sterilized syringes?
Just PC a bit of water with the Mudablender lid on it, PC it along w/ foil wrapped syringes, let it cool, bring it to SAB.
Bring colonized petri to SAB, cut wedge/agar needed to blend into LI. open jar lid w/o completely uncovering sterile water, drop mycelium into water.
Blend that bad boy up and bring back to SAB. Fill syringes with LI.
:highfive1:

this tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20429745


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: MysticMoteToter]
    #23473150 - 07/24/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MysticMoteToter said:
Any reason you don't wana just suck up the LI into sterilized syringes?
Just PC a bit of water with the Mudablender lid on it, PC it along w/ foil wrapped syringes, let it cool, bring it to SAB.
Bring colonized petri to SAB, cut wedge/agar needed to blend into LI. open jar lid w/o completely uncovering sterile water, drop mycelium into water.
Blend that bad boy up and bring back to SAB. Fill syringes with LI.
:highfive1:

this tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20429745




Oh man, I fucking hate syringes! I have a flowhood anyways, but even when I used an SAB I had left those things behind. I usually just go wedge to masters but I lost some spawn and need to get some masters made quickly.
I will look into the mudablender lid though, thanks.


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/24/16 06:42 PM)


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23473219 - 07/24/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, I checked out that tek, so he makes a lid with blender blade. The blender blade I have fits right onto a regular mouth jar perfectly, is there a specific reason people don't just connect the blender blade with a jar ring?


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/24/16 06:48 PM)


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OfflineMysticMoteToter
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23474127 - 07/24/16 11:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Haha well idk what to say man, i love em, pretty much all i use is LI in syringes, they just store conveniently and are good for a long time in the fridge in a sanitary bag.


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23474274 - 07/25/16 01:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Rooster,

If you can find a vintage osterizer beehive blender on ebay (easy to find):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Oster-Beehive-Blender-Made-in-USA-/201624544087?hash=item2ef1c26357:g:ouUAAOSwX~dWlxkK

It has an all metal assembly that is autoclavable.  This will screw onto a narrow mouth quart mason jar.  You have to glue the blade assembly to the base with some sort of heat resistant silicone adhesive that will withstand the autoclaving, or somehow address how you will seal it.  I used this for a long time before moving up to an eberbach, and produced lots of spawn using LI to jars.  Honestly, the eberbach is just a modest improvement over this set up.


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23474283 - 07/25/16 01:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You have to glue the blade assembly to the base with some sort of heat resistant silicone adhesive that will withstand the autoclaving, or somehow address how you will seal it.




And the reason for this is because when you want to open the jar to add culture then the blade will want to fall out unless it is glued into the screw on base. 

(When I wrote this a few minutes ago, I started wondering why I was saying this.  It took me a moment to remember the reason.)


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23474570 - 07/25/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
Ok, I checked out that tek, so he makes a lid with blender blade. The blender blade I have fits right onto a regular mouth jar perfectly, is there a specific reason people don't just connect the blender blade with a jar ring?



Just one very minor reason: to make the blade and band one single piece that lifts out as one. However, I just use a jar ring. I used a modified lid in the past and went back to just a band. its easy and more reliable. plus no risk of cutting yourself up making that modified lid.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23475512 - 07/25/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Awesome, thanks guys for the tips on that!


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: MysticMoteToter]
    #23475547 - 07/25/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MysticMoteToter said:
Haha well idk what to say man, i love em, pretty much all i use is LI in syringes, they just store conveniently and are good for a long time in the fridge in a sanitary bag.




I have no need to store LI, I have my cultures stored in slants, my preferred method is starting fresh from slants after I have expanded 4-5 generations, but like I was saying I just lost a bunch of spawn due to heat and needed to get the upper hand this run, also I just use SFD fitlers on my lids so they need to be lifted to inoculate, which I find in the end a lot easier than injecting jars with syringes.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23475549 - 07/25/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

why not just do Blenderless Li? super easy, works great, no need to mod any lids, and did i mention super easy? :grin:


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: mupetmower]
    #23475619 - 07/25/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mupetmower said:
why not just do Blenderless Li? super easy, works great, no need to mod any lids, and did i mention super easy? :grin:



I have done it before, I did it with broken glass in a jar, It didn't really leap off as aggressive as I hoped, I liked it though, but I have seen great results with super whipped up plates from ebarbachs and I'm trying to catch back up to a bunch of spawn I lost. I usually talk shit about trying to get things done super fast, but I am definitely eating crow now.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23498547 - 08/01/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
Ok, I checked out that tek, so he makes a lid with blender blade. The blender blade I have fits right onto a regular mouth jar perfectly, is there a specific reason people don't just connect the blender blade with a jar ring?



Just one very minor reason: to make the blade and band one single piece that lifts out as one. However, I just use a jar ring. I used a modified lid in the past and went back to just a band. its easy and more reliable. plus no risk of cutting yourself up making that modified lid.




Hey Munch, Im about to make a batch of this and was wondering if you even use the rubber gasket? Or just the blade assembly and jar ring, seems the easiest route as long as that metal seals against the glass.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23498949 - 08/01/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There should be a rubber gasket with the blender base. I leave that on.


Edited by Munchauzen (08/01/16 06:09 PM)


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23499018 - 08/01/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I just got a new Oster today and the rubber ring was just loose, I used it anyways, it formed a way better seal than the metal on glass. Anyways thanks for the tips dude, the PC is cooling down and I should be working here in a few hours, by the way Munch, I have a shit ton of dishes that are just gonna get tossed if I dont use them now, is it too much to use 2 plates in about 600 ml of water for about 20 jars? It seems like a good idea, but also that much agar in the grains? Do you guys find that an issue?


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/01/16 04:48 PM)


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23502590 - 08/02/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

is it too much to use 2 plates in about 600 ml of water for about 20 jars? It seems like a good idea, but also that much agar in the grains? Do you guys find that an issue?




The amount of agar should not be an issue, though one plate will be adequate for 20 jars, however I would use only 10ml of LI per quart jar.  Too much water in the spawn is not good.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23502785 - 08/02/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:

is it too much to use 2 plates in about 600 ml of water for about 20 jars? It seems like a good idea, but also that much agar in the grains? Do you guys find that an issue?




The amount of agar should not be an issue, though one plate will be adequate for 20 jars, however I would use only 10ml of LI per quart jar.  Too much water in the spawn is not good.



you can use 50ml of LI no problem, if you really wanted to. I've probably dumped 100 or so in a few jars before. Never seen it cause any problems. The jars explode with growth, actually. 100% in like 4-5 days.


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23504073 - 08/02/16 11:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

you can use 50ml of LI no problem, if you really wanted to. I've probably dumped 100 or so in a few jars before. Never seen it cause any problems. The jars explode with growth, actually. 100% in like 4-5 days.




Really?  Considering that, 20ml would be better, eh?

Frankly, I never experimented with using more LI than 10ml per jar.  I'd get full colonization in 7 - 9 days at ~75F.  I've always been cagey about adding liquid to grain because in the past one of my  problems in making spawn was that the bottom-most bags in the cooker would siphon up water and be ruined by being too wet.  I extrapolated that adding moisture to the grains should be kept to a minimum, and that is what I have always done with LI or LC, but perhaps I am too stingy after all!


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Re: LI vessel (updated with results) [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23516253 - 08/06/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I just did 3 runs over the last couple of days with this, and I have to say I love it.
First run I did 20 jars, probably 20 ml each, and they are halfway done, I liked it so much I said fuck it and threw 50 lb.s of grain into soaking that night and loaded up 8 lb. bags the next day, and those bags are fucking flying!
I am eating crow now, I have solely done wedges to masters all of my growing life, but I love this alternative for when shit needs to get done, and realizing I could get my 8 lb bags to colonize as fast as G2G. Mind blown.
Thanks for the help munch!!!

Edit, half of those bags were grey oyster and from the looks of it they will be done by the middle of the week!

Edit, just checked and I had one jar I had poured way too much into and it took longer to start, but this morning it's 100%, it probably got 50-100 ml in it


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/12/16 01:33 AM)


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23516337 - 08/06/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:

is it too much to use 2 plates in about 600 ml of water for about 20 jars? It seems like a good idea, but also that much agar in the grains? Do you guys find that an issue?




The amount of agar should not be an issue, though one plate will be adequate for 20 jars, however I would use only 10ml of LI per quart jar.  Too much water in the spawn is not good.



you can use 50ml of LI no problem, if you really wanted to. I've probably dumped 100 or so in a few jars before. Never seen it cause any problems. The jars explode with growth, actually. 100% in like 4-5 days.




I just saw you said that, and you are absolutely right, 100% in 4 days on the jar with 50-100 ml accidentally poured into it, I wouldn't have thought it.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23516343 - 08/06/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Don't have time to read through this entire thread but I'm just wondering if any of you guys use Whatman filters for LC's?


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #23516346 - 08/06/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PsilocyBen17 said:
Don't have time to read through this entire thread but I'm just wondering if any of you guys use Whatman filters for LC's?




That's what you should be using for LC IMO.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23516359 - 08/06/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I'd like to try them next time I have some $$$ to order myco stuff *sigh*

Can I ask why you prefer LC's over LI's?


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #23516373 - 08/06/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Better recovery time.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #23516377 - 08/06/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I like to LI into a LC but overall LI is more safe and very efficient as far as time and material.

LC's colonize very fast with LI and the extra step is worth it for me

that's the only way i'll ever do a LC again

I still do use just LI occasionally though:shrug:


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: tombosley8]
    #23516508 - 08/06/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

As far as efficiency goes, LI has kicked every LC ass I have ever dealt with.
Plus it seems to me that the time it takes to propagate LC then inoculate takes more time than wedge to masters, which is how I prefer to everything if Im not in a hurry, the only things Im comfortable storing and using are slants and sometimes dishes that make it to storage.
Pasty, what is your regimen for making LC? Are you making a batch for every run or do you save it and dip into your LC's?
Have you taken LC to large spawn bags?


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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23516778 - 08/06/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I avoid simple sugar LC which are very slow to recover and do the culture no favors. Use either malt extract or grain water. LC to bags is fine, I've done it plenty of times.

But we are off topic. LI is great so in keeping with this thread let's talk about that instead.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23533507 - 08/12/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Here you guys go, spawn bags 7 days after using the blender and a jar,





I also made master jars properly from wedges the day before as well in case this failed, here is one at day 8



The spawn bags are 7-8 lb.'s.
What I enjoyed about the LI was being able to get a foot on some quick spawn bags while getting traditional masters together at the same time.

I had also took LI to quart jars when I made these bags and they were done and spawned yesterday, 6 days in total for the jars. Gotta say I am now a fan:cool:
Thanks for the help you guys!


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/12/16 11:01 AM)


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Liquid Inoculant Vessel [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23534512 - 08/12/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I have prepared a sub for 3 tubs from 4.5 lb.'s of coco, 1.5 gal. of vermiculite, 3 large cups of gypsum and 3.5 gal. of water using my own tek where I pasteurize roughly 30 lb's (40 or so quarts) of sub in 3 large grow bags in my AA941. I know it doesn't need to be pasteurized, but I am creature of habit and that is one place I have had a hard time changing my old ways.

I am about to do the spawning this morning, this is a run with a lot of firsts, I'm going to try casing and fruiting at spawning, when you guys do this are you doing a typical casing depth or a little thinner? And how quick are you guys seeing pinsets with a higher spawn ratio?


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (08/12/16 11:39 AM)


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