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Dark.Mayan
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Registered: 07/24/16
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Mazapatec cakes 1
#23471201 - 07/24/16 01:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's been four days since I inoculated six sterile substrate jars. I injected 10cc of Mazapatec spores between them. I flamed & swabbed between each jar. I did this within my oven after having it heated at 300+ degrees F for a half hr, and after disinfecting the area w/ antibacterial wipes as well as disinfecting the air multiple times. I inoculated to the best of my ability. I then placed the jars in an incubation chamber where they've remained the past four days where I've yet to see any significant growth. I can see where the spores splat against the glass on multiple jars - a deep bruised like color. I've kept the temperature between 75F - 85F w/ a slight period of the chamber reaching 90F when I left a heating pad unattended on a low setting. Those who are familiar w/ the Mazapatec strain - what are their desired incubation conditions? This is my first time ever cultivating. There is slight growth within one or two jars that I can see, but the mycelium is looking contaminated. How can I boost the conditions for this strain?
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
Edited by Dark.Mayan (07/24/16 07:16 PM)
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Inocuole
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23471230 - 07/24/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Problems:
-10cc should make 10-20 jars, not 6, using more spores increases the chances of contamination because spores are not usually produced in sterile enclosed environments. - Needle should never be touched with anything after flaming, nothing is more sterile than fire, another strike toward the chances of contamination. -Oven? Oh my god... another strike. -85F is too hot, you want like 70-75F max for colonizing jars so as to inhibit the growth of bacteria, which has a head start from your first three strikes, so, strike 4 for using a heating pad, which has no place in mycology. Heat the room, not the grow, but only heat the room if it's below 65F. -Most cube "strains" (varieties, races) are the same, you shouldn't expect this cubensis to do much different than any other because of the name on it. All the information you probably read about it was generalizations and assumptions based on limited experience, every spore syringe has thousands of strains in them.
I would go ahead and prepare to start over with new materials. You didn't say what kind of substrate jars you inoculated though. If they're BRF cakes, maybe there's a chance they could survive all this, if it's grains, then absolutely not. Though I'm imagining the chances of you having the correct BRF jars being slim given the track record so far.
Not meant to offend, you've just gotta find some better reading material.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19140341#19140341 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21448273
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Dark.Mayan
Welterweight divizion


Registered: 07/24/16
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Inocuole]
#23471238 - 07/24/16 02:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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No offense taken - I'm an amateur. The oven was used to further sterilize the air of the area - killing off as much bacteria as I could from the heat. I got trigger happy w/ the syringe and only knocked up six jars - once again, amateur mistake. For the most part the temperature was kept in the mid seventy range. However, Mazapatecs are a Mexican native strain so I would guess they are prone to somewhat higher temperatures than other strains, but that's just my introspection. Thanks
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23471776 - 07/24/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dark.Mayan said: However, Mazapatecs are a Mexican native strain so I would guess they are prone to somewhat higher temperatures than other strains, but that's just my introspection.
They would have been found there originally and grown inside for many generations, probably at colder temps. Being too warm encourages other contaminants to grow, as you are starting with syringes (rather than agar) there it is more likely to have contaminants too. Most "standard" heat pads are far too hot. I am current using a (far from standard) heater for jars but it is only 1.5W, most are 100W+.
Also the spores could really be from anywhere and just labelled as Mazapatec.
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ToppSopp
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Inocuole]
#23471846 - 07/24/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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"spores are not usually produced in sterile enclosed environments"
Yes, I have been wondering about that. As it is not possible to sterilize the spores that go into a syringe (that would have killed the spores we want too), how do they keep out other contaminants?
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: ToppSopp]
#23471862 - 07/24/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToppSopp said: "spores are not usually produced in sterile enclosed environments"
Yes, I have been wondering about that. As it is not possible to sterilize the spores that go into a syringe (that would have killed the spores we want too), how do they keep out other contaminants?
Basically they dont thats why its better to use agar
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: ToppSopp]
#23472076 - 07/24/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToppSopp said: "spores are not usually produced in sterile enclosed environments"
Yes, I have been wondering about that. As it is not possible to sterilize the spores that go into a syringe (that would have killed the spores we want too), how do they keep out other contaminants?
There are many methods they could use to minimise contaminants. Most are secretive about how they make syringes. One was rumoured to use antibiotics. I was posting this the other day in this thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23463256#23463256
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ToppSopp
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: blackout]
#23472367 - 07/24/16 01:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting 8-)
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Dark.Mayan
Welterweight divizion



Registered: 07/24/16
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: ToppSopp]
#23473324 - 07/24/16 07:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, upon fruiting I'll update the thread on the aesthetic identification of the shrooms. The syringe came from an online source that claimed it to be the Mazapatec strain. I intend to dunk & chill the cakes for multiple flushes if they prove successful. Is it possible to inoculate other jars w/ the mycelium from what I have just as one would w/ spawn bags? Or as one would w/ agar?
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23473385 - 07/24/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't dunk and chill. Just dunk them. Make sure you birth each cake individually, run it under water and remove dry verm barrier. Smell each cake. After rolling let sit 24h so the myc grabs the verm, and let your first misting be light and gentle so you're not blowing it all over the place. Set your cakes on upside down jar lids. Hope some of this helps I'm baked and rambling.
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Dark.Mayan
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Registered: 07/24/16
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Adden]
#23473666 - 07/24/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're good bro. I have no surplus vermiculite to roll the cakes in, but the website I bought my grow kit from suggested dunking birthed cakes & leaving them submerged for 24hrs before putting them into a fruiting chamber. I guess because the cakes prefer some water retention before performing in the fruiting chamber. The suppliers also suggested doing this between each flush & chilling the cakes after multiple flushes with the purpose of waking dormant mycelium up for yet another yield that may not have occurred without this chill factor. I'm not misting - I have a HEPA filtered air pump that I'll be using in combination w/ hydroton & soaked perlite for my humidity levels. I'll keep this thread updated
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
Edited by Dark.Mayan (07/24/16 09:13 PM)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23473751 - 07/24/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Chilling is not good for cubensis, which are a tropical species. All that will do is slow things down. Hence why we store cultures in the fridge. They require some prodding to regain their vigor after doing this.
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Dark.Mayan
Welterweight divizion



Registered: 07/24/16
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Inocuole]
#23473810 - 07/24/16 09:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Chilling is not good for cubensis, which are a tropical species. All that will do is slow things down. Hence why we store cultures in the fridge. They require some prodding to regain their vigor after doing this.
Sensible. What's your take on the submergence of the cakes in water before fruiting & between flushes...or is the humidity from the chamber more welcoming to the tropically native cubensis...
& w/ that being said...shouldn't I be able to isolate healthy mycelium from one of the cakes to inoculate multiple other substrate jars w/? As opposed to another syringe
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
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Inocuole
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23473819 - 07/24/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dunking is good to replace lost moisture, which you lose during colonization and during flushes. 12-24 hours is good for cakes usually.
I wouldn't try to use one cake to inoculate others because cakes need to be inoculated with liquids, and the overall difficulty scales a little bit past the effectiveness. If you're going through the trouble of being good enough at sterile technique to inoculate one substrate with another one, then you want to be looking at agar and grain so those skills can be put to reliable use.
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Dark.Mayan
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Registered: 07/24/16
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Inocuole]
#23473848 - 07/24/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Dunking is good to replace lost moisture, which you lose during colonization and during flushes. 12-24 hours is good for cakes usually.
I wouldn't try to use one cake to inoculate others because cakes need to be inoculated with liquids, and the overall difficulty scales a little bit past the effectiveness. If you're going through the trouble of being good enough at sterile technique to inoculate one substrate with another one, then you want to be looking at agar and grain so those skills can be put to reliable use.
Like your adept ass? Thanks - so I plan to dunk upon birthing & between flushes then
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
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Inocuole
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23473856 - 07/24/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds good, rolling in verm after the first dunk would really be preferable though, the microclimate it affords the cake is irreplacable. You just won't get the same pinset or yields at all without the verm roll.
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23473940 - 07/24/16 10:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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^ Yeah just buy a 2 dollar bag of verm. They're tiny but some stores carry like 2 quart bags or something. It'll drastically help your grow. Both in yield, success rate, etc.
Quote:
Dark.Mayan said:
Sensible. What's your take on the submergence of the cakes in water before fruiting & between flushes...or is the humidity from the chamber more welcoming to the tropically native cubensis...
Ambient room temperatures are fine. Get them in a SGFC. You may only have to dunk once, sometimes they pump out all they have in one flush depending on conditions. Cakes kind of decide for themselves too, and will help you learn pinning triggers and how to harvest off a verm surface (you'll be doing this in bulk).
Quote:
With that being said...shouldn't I be able to isolate healthy mycelium from one of the cakes to inoculate multiple other substrate jars w/? As opposed to another syringe
What you could do is read up on how to do agar work. It's as easy as making jello. You're on the right track here. Once you get mushrooms that you like - from clusters or large fruits - and let that grow on agar to help pick out desired traits you'd like to see again. It's why you see a canopy in bulk tubs to where you can't see the substrate from the top because of all the mushrooms.
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Dark.Mayan
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Inocuole]
#23474021 - 07/24/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Sounds good, rolling in verm after the first dunk would really be preferable though, the microclimate it affords the cake is irreplacable. You just won't get the same pinset or yields at all without the verm roll.
Maybe I can roll w/ the mixture (organic brown rice flour, vermiculite, mineral water, liquid worm castings, & bee pollen) from another jar...? Or is it simply vermiculite the outer cake wants for that microclimate you're talking about... I'm only asking because I have no isolated vermiculite, but I do have a surplus of pre-ordered substrate jars I can use to roll w/...or is that too much for the primordia
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
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Inocuole
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan] 1
#23474065 - 07/24/16 11:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do not roll in more BRF, that will contaminate immediately. Only roll in pure verm straight from the bag.
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Dark.Mayan
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Registered: 07/24/16
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Inocuole]
#23474129 - 07/24/16 11:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Do not roll in more BRF, that will contaminate immediately. Only roll in pure verm straight from the bag.
Whoa, ight adept
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23474242 - 07/25/16 01:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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OP, AKA dark Mayan, youve read some really old info. Time to get caught up on some new reading that isnt outdated. I believe Inodule posted some links.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
  Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise   Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek | 💧 Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method 💧 |  Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! Shpongle
     
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Adden

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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Dark.Mayan]
#23474293 - 07/25/16 01:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey OP I found this laying around my journal if you ever get into doing cakes yourself. Don't know how helpful it is but it's worth a read.
A SGFC is imperative. If you don't have perlite in your six-sided tote with 1/4" holes on all sides you may as well not do cakes.
Don't forget to:
1) Let your jars consolidate for 7 days after full colonization.
2) Remove your dry verm barrier under the faucet. Smell each individual cake if there's no visible contam.
3) Dunk the cakes in room temp water for 24h after birthing. Roll them gently in vermiculite. It doesn't have to be PC'd or anything special. Some people like to throw it in the oven on a flat baking sheet for awhile but it doesn't matter really. You can fill a salad bowl with it and gently take the cake out of your dunking pot, rinse it, throw it in the bowl and fluff verm on top of it. Wait 24h again after rolling in verm before you mist. It gives the cakes time to grab the verm, and when you begin misting, do the first few to where water droplets gall into your SGFC. Trust me it helps tons.
4) Put them on a 12/12 light cycle with a 6500k (lumens) CFL bulb. Fungi aren't plants nor animals and are phototrophic (grow towards light) but not photosynthetic.
5) You may not get a distinct first, second or third flush. Usually cakes will do a 1.5 flush without a delineation.
6) When you dunk your cakes the second time, don't re-roll them in verm.
7) Fan, mist, fan. You don't have to wave it around like a lunatic or nothin, just scoop a little air out, mist, wave once or twice to initiate evaporation.
8) Mist your cakes directly. I try to hit front back and side to side lightly with a fine mist. Never spray fruits directly or they can turn into sad sacks of sloppy junk.
9) Buy a dehydrator. If you're going to grow them, at least finish the job properly.
10) Don't have a fan blowing at your shotgun fruiting chamber. At some point you may have to rehydrate the perlite. If such is the case, remove the cakes and gently set them aside. You can use your misting bottle as you turn the perlite over itself while you mix. Wearing a latex glove makes it world's easier.
11) Keep the Shotgun Fruiting Chamber (SGFC) elevated 4-6" so air can move through the perlite from underneath and provide FAE (fresh air exchange) to your cakes.
12) You can use upside down jar lids instead of foil. Standing water in a SGFC in open air is never a good thing.
13) Keep your cakes clustered together if you have just a few cakes but have a big chamber. It helps maintain a suitable microclimate as a pinning trigger (much like the "casing layer" you created when you rolled the cake). That 1-2mm microclimate on the surface of your cake is incredibly important, and why delaying misting for 24h is my recommendation. Some people underestimate how important it is and end up misting all of it off, causing uneven growth along the cake, or a lower yield & so on and so forth.
Edited by Adden (07/25/16 02:02 AM)
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Inocuole
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Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Adden]
#23474383 - 07/25/16 03:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dark.Mayan
Welterweight divizion



Registered: 07/24/16
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Re: The cakes have yet to colonize - an issue of patience, or incubation [Re: Inocuole]
#23474477 - 07/25/16 05:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Much appreciated Adden. While there's always jewels to be found within the grains - it's obvious there's no sole way to harvest psilocybin. Techniques are to be followed - but the experience they provide is of more value if you're conscious of what you're doing & learning why certain things are suggested. Then you can get innovative. All that info is helpful thanks
-------------------- It was from within this darkness that I found light - my light - yet again. It was w/ the aid supplied from the medicine of ancients which rejuvenated my soul. The love & gratitude had been within me all along - all that was needed, was a catalyst...
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