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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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"Saving the world"
    #23469437 - 07/23/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The only phenomenon one can control is oneself, and even there the picture is quite muddy.  Notions of 'saving the world' are only hubris, and will come to very little.

Am I off-base?  Am I being too cynical?  Am I part of the problem with these remarks?  Or are they accurate, and the world evolves much as a heartless, thoughtless weather system does?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23469444 - 07/23/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I don't like to brag, but I already saved the world - that is why you all are here! :elmo:


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23469495 - 07/23/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i'd say it depends on one's scale of perspective.

in the end, the sun will burn out, cooking the earth, if not enveloping it entirely.  anything that might warrant "saving the world" will be rendered futile.


in terms of climate change, this is an entirely natural, cyclical process.


in the very short-term, humans use of nuclear weaponry poses the greatest threat to the environment (don't forget, we are a part of the environment), but even that would eventually be overcome


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channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineElectric Wizard21
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23469508 - 07/23/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you think about it no one can save the world, it is unsaveable. The only way to stop the problems would be to eradicate the problem: humans. Not all humans create the world we live in, but the majority go along with it without stopping to think about someone else, there too busy with something or another.

If we look at old civilisations like the Egyptians, it seemed they allowed knowledge to be freely known, today that isn't the case even with the apparent increase in knowledge. We hasn't got access to the information we need. Instead we have out heads in things like video games and conspiracy theories when we should be discussing the facts.

To save the world is an outcry, but to accept that it cannot be saved and only changed towards the better is a start.


--------------------
I'm sick of all you hypocrites
Holding me at bay
And I don't need your sympathy
To get me through the day
Seasons change and so can I
Hold on boy, no time to cry
Untie these strings, I'm climbing down
I won't let them push me away




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: Electric Wizard21]
    #23469576 - 07/23/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I like orgy's approach
what?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: demiu5]
    #23469634 - 07/23/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
i'd say it depends on one's scale of perspective.

in the end, the sun will burn out, cooking the earth, if not enveloping it entirely.  anything that might warrant "saving the world" will be rendered futile.


in terms of climate change, this is an entirely natural, cyclical process.


in the very short-term, humans use of nuclear weaponry poses the greatest threat to the environment (don't forget, we are a part of the environment), but even that would eventually be overcome




I fully agree that the greatest threat, in purely practical terms, to the continuation of humanity is the presence of strategic nuclear weapons.  Some people think these are just big bombs, and that some people would survive a nuclear holocaust.  Actually, they are world-enders -- with a hundred year long nuclear winter, the only ones who would survive are the cock-roaches.  But that is a story for another thread.  In order to properly save the world, one would have to eliminate all the nuclear stockpiles, primarily those of the U.S. and Russia, which are the biggest.  Since this is extremely unlikely to happen, it rather renders the point moot until we can find a way to govern ourselves without war.  What man builds, he tends to use, sooner or later.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: Electric Wizard21]
    #23469641 - 07/23/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Electric Wizard21 said:
If you think about it no one can save the world, it is unsaveable. The only way to stop the problems would be to eradicate the problem: humans. Not all humans create the world we live in, but the majority go along with it without stopping to think about someone else, there too busy with something or another.

If we look at old civilisations like the Egyptians, it seemed they allowed knowledge to be freely known, today that isn't the case even with the apparent increase in knowledge. We hasn't got access to the information we need. Instead we have out heads in things like video games and conspiracy theories when we should be discussing the facts.

To save the world is an outcry, but to accept that it cannot be saved and only changed towards the better is a start.




Interesting points, I find I agree.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: Electric Wizard21]
    #23469652 - 07/23/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Electric Wizard21 said:
If you think about it no one can save the world, it is unsaveable. The only way to stop the problems would be to eradicate the problem: humans. Not all humans create the world we live in, but the majority go along with it without stopping to think about someone else, there too busy with something or another.

If we look at old civilisations like the Egyptians, it seemed they allowed knowledge to be freely known, today that isn't the case even with the apparent increase in knowledge. We hasn't got access to the information we need. Instead we have out heads in things like video games and conspiracy theories when we should be discussing the facts.

To save the world is an outcry, but to accept that it cannot be saved and only changed towards the better is a start.





the sun will eventually render earth [mostly, if not entirely] lifeless, if not completely destroyed, regardless of humans potentially "getting their shit together"


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channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineElectric Wizard21
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: demiu5]
    #23469679 - 07/23/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

But it would be better to make the world a potentially better place a little everyday. The sun won't die for millions of years, according to Brian cos of the BBC anyway.

If the human experience is real, and this is it, then it's a shame to waste the earth to evil. When we die we will know the truth, whether that's a good thing I don't know. But many theories suggest a matrix type reality and life after death.


--------------------
I'm sick of all you hypocrites
Holding me at bay
And I don't need your sympathy
To get me through the day
Seasons change and so can I
Hold on boy, no time to cry
Untie these strings, I'm climbing down
I won't let them push me away




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Offlinezzripz
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23469684 - 07/23/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i think that like the accusation of 'conspiracy theorist' was brought about by the CIA as a means to trigger shame in questioning authority and their official narratives, so it is so with the 'you cannot save the world'

'the world' becomes a concept

At this grocer's shop I do shopping once a week, I am friendly with one of the guys. This place always uses plastic bags. One day I said how I was not into using plastic and he said 'oh, are you trying to save the world?' it is a kind of --although he isn't being nasty--self-ridicule and warning against being non-conformist

So it comes down to this. ARE you going to not eat at McDonalds because YOU see what a crock of shit it is, OR are you going to go along with the rest--who fall for it? Who fall for walking around mesmerized by their mobile computer. Are gonna get yourself 'upgraded' with a chip? Are you going to say no?

'the world' is a concept made to make you feel small and insignificant and helpless. think, community instead. That would include the trees, soil, water, air, insects, birds, hedgehogs, and so on. THAT is a world


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: zzripz]
    #23469709 - 07/23/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Electric Wizard21 said:
But it would be better to make the world a potentially better place a little everyday. The sun won't die for millions of years, according to Brian cos of the BBC anyway.

If the human experience is real, and this is it, then it's a shame to waste the earth to evil. When we die we will know the truth, whether that's a good thing I don't know. But many theories suggest a matrix type reality and life after death.





i'm not disagreeing, just stating facts




Quote:

zzripz said:
i think that like the accusation of 'conspiracy theorist' was brought about by the CIA as a means to trigger shame in questioning authority and their official narratives, so it is so with the 'you cannot save the world'

'the world' becomes a concept


'the world' is a concept made to make you feel small and insignificant and helpless. think, community instead. That would include the trees, soil, water, air, insects, birds, hedgehogs, and so on. THAT is a world





most often, people misuse "world" when what they mean is "culture".  your post is spot on


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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23469723 - 07/23/16 03:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The only phenomenon one can control is oneself, and even there the picture is quite muddy.  Notions of 'saving the world' are only hubris, and will come to very little.

Am I off-base?  Am I being too cynical?  Am I part of the problem with these remarks?  Or are they accurate, and the world evolves much as a heartless, thoughtless weather system does?




Well, you're not wrong.  One of the main issues is that a) good intentions can go wrong;  it's a complex thing -

another is that one of the main things necessary to learn is non-action.  It isn't so much we have to do a lot of great things; mostly we have to learn to do less;

the meditative state of peace, non-action is when one can explore .. deep ecology and what not;

yes the situation is complex, but so is the human neocortex or brain in general...

it keeps seeming to be up to the task -- isn't the human brain one of the most complex things in existence?  at least terence mckenna mentions it is one of the densest and most complex networks.. i suppose it could be called, informationally dense, so to speak.

anyway i've rambled, and let me just wrap up by saying - why not, grown like a great oak tree?

or some of the others, which are thousands of years old?  i don't mean to romanticize it completely, but a certain amount of idealization - romanticizing life -

is necessary for it to thrive.  i.e. - it does no harm to say 'life is immensely wonderful',

immensely beautiful - the same pattern, holographic pattern or fractal, would seem to be present in so many things. . . yet from our lives -- to see the beauty can help to show life is beautiful -- perhaps this quest for enlightenment is as much about beauty as it is about wisdom and love -- and the many qualities are connected ( Buddhas and others are greatly praised for their beauty ) ;  there can of course be too much emphasis --

but about this, this would be probably the limiting aspect of discriminating mind, and would let it go -- no point in spending energy on that type of thing, except insofar as it goes towards understanding the world.

So some discourse about the great beauty of life makes sense to me -- how else are we to ever reach the divine state cats, and much else of nature is in all the time?  If not learning to appreciate the natural beauty, and harmony of all life?

And so thus is the search for beauty and harmony an integral aspect of the peaceful life.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: graceful dragon]
    #23470019 - 07/23/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I appreciate your post and this --

Quote:

graceful dragon said:
Well, you're not wrong.  One of the main issues is that a) good intentions can go wrong;  it's a complex thing -

another is that one of the main things necessary to learn is non-action.  It isn't so much we have to do a lot of great things; mostly we have to learn to do less;





-- is spot on.  In order to do less damage to ourselves and the environment, we need to intelligently take less action.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23471209 - 07/24/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The notion of "saving the world" is the fodder for many social mass movements

When I was a kid in the 70's/80's it was anti big oil

Now it's anti-GMO

"saving the world" usually involves defeating an enemy

I think it's all ego based poppycock

I'll drink another beer and think about it...


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23471221 - 07/24/16 01:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It is like "protecting the earth" as the earth could handle being covered in lava and being bombarded by meteors, but not a few man-made chemicals.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23471541 - 07/24/16 07:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

wait a minute,
some of those chemicals (and radioactive wastes) are really really bad in very very small quantities.
Lava is whipped cream by comparison.
GMO can be awful (in a few years I expect some fancy new diseases to emerge - as growing pains with the technology) but radioactive waste is bizarre bad.

orgy, you got a lot of work to do to keep saving us.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23471684 - 07/24/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

GMO is probably safe if done well

I need my Pundi rice!


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23471744 - 07/24/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It is like "protecting the earth" as the earth could handle being covered in lava and being bombarded by meteors, but not a few man-made chemicals.




It depends on what we mean.  If we're talking about humanity when we use the word "world," then we're talking about a bunch of misguided creatures that are doing great harm to themselves, and many other species besides. 

If we're talking about the Earth as an entity unto itself, then yes, the Earth can take a lot more than we're throwing at it.

"The planet is fine. The people are fucked."  --George Carlin


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: yeah]
    #23471745 - 07/24/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

electronics is safe when done well, at least it is not likely to reproduce other electronics so far - though soon we will see nanobots in vats, and then, no vat necessary bots (NVB's) this will probably come before we get good GMO and perfect 3-d printing.

we could lose a lot of people on the way. billionaires will emerge, and probably hundreds of diseases cured as well.

but saving the world now involves literacy first, eradication of hunger, poverty, and oppression such as is spreading HIV in southern Africa, and stupidity elsewhere.

I know Orgy has stepped up to lead the way. Personally I turn to drugs on a part time basis which helps.


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OfflineElectric Wizard21
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Re: "Saving the world" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23471871 - 07/24/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

3 D printing is happening all the time, companies worldwide are using it now to make components.


As for curing diseases, if they did then they wouldn't make money anymore, so the chances of that happening soon if ever are slim.


--------------------
I'm sick of all you hypocrites
Holding me at bay
And I don't need your sympathy
To get me through the day
Seasons change and so can I
Hold on boy, no time to cry
Untie these strings, I'm climbing down
I won't let them push me away




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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