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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Chopped straw
#23467609 - 07/22/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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What do you guys think about this straw?

 The only problem is that it has some seeds that could germinate after being hydrated.
But, it's 25 lbs, which would last me a longgg time. Not to mention it's already chopped up, so I don't have to do much work in prepping it. Would a simple hot water bath with some soap be able to get it clean enough where I wouldn't have to worry about germination?
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Pasteurizing should stop any grain from germinating but you could always remove the grain before use, it's not really that laborious unless you're doing bales of the stuff.
Check it's just straw, the chopped straw bedding for sale at my local feedstore has all sorts of shit in it including things to inhibit bacterial and fungal growth which is the last thing you want for growing shrooms.
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Psilosoulful

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Re: Chopped straw [Re: weetsie]
#23467730 - 07/22/16 10:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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According to their website, it's all-natural, biodegradable, and weed-free. I like that it's already chopped up and it has a lot of 5 star ratings. I might just pick myself up a pack, it seems to be worth it.
It has some barley straw in it, would this be a problem? I've heard you're only supposed to use 100% wheat straw.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
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Loc: United Kingdom
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Quote:
Psilosoulful said: It has some barley straw in it, would this be a problem? I've heard you're only supposed to use 100% wheat straw.
I've never heard that before, barley works just fine for oysters, as does rice, rape etc.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Chopped straw [Re: weetsie]
#23468028 - 07/23/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
weetsie said:
Quote:
Psilosoulful said: It has some barley straw in it, would this be a problem? I've heard you're only supposed to use 100% wheat straw.
I've never heard that before, barley works just fine for oysters, as does rice, rape etc.
I'm growing pan cyans with the mix of manure,verm, amd straw. Hopefully it colonizes well
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tump
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Registered: 03/17/16
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Its will work ok if you mix it and cook it right
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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Re: Chopped straw [Re: weetsie]
#23468049 - 07/23/16 12:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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The issue with grains in straw is their nutrient content, not germination.
That said, I get grains in my straw too (I buy bales) and I often wondered if they are why straw is so susceptible to molds. I only realised just how much grains are left in straw when I left some hydrated straw sitting in the nylon netting I pasteurize it in. Easily had a dozen sprouts throughout the whole bag, probably even more.
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Psilosoulful

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So if I wash it well in the warm water bath, then I won't have to worry about germination in my bulk sub right? I know pan cyans love straw, that's why I am soo tempted to get this product. (not to mention it's 25 lbs!!) That'll last me a very, very long time.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Nah, if anything, warm will only make it germ faster. I use warm water to hydrate my straw, when I left it sitting, I got germination after a few days. Pasteurization is what will stop the seeds from germinating.
Poo and straw makes for a great bulk sub IME, I would love to unlock the secrets of what makes straw tick, or untick for that matter
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tump
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Straw is all about water content. Most straw contams even if the seeds geration hasn't happened. I straw will do fine with seeds growing into full plants. There are. Extreme amount of mold spores on straw. But bales of straw are cheapest sub man can buy. Mixing is tricking bicth i cant ever get right.
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Supalemonhaze
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Re: Chopped straw [Re: tump]
#23468179 - 07/23/16 01:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Getting the water content of straw right is just as easy as straining it for a couple of hours. If you are mixing it with other bulks, you will have to add water anyway to get to field capacity.
I'm talking about finding out what makes straw a mold magnet. Having basically zero beneficial organisms in it is a good guess but it feels like there might be other factors at play. The grains do make a pretty good contam vector if you ask me. A while back someone made a thread about finding a single grain in his coir, let alone the dozens we have in a straw bale.
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Mr.Caterpillar
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Registered: 07/28/07
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It might not be chopped enough. I saw something like that in a craft store recently and the straw was very coarsely chopped - not really what you want. However, you might chop it up a little more by putting it in a trash can with a hole in the lid and then sticking a weed eater down that hole. Once you have the well chopped straw then put it in a laundry bag and completely submerge it in 165 F water for an hour and pull it out and let it drain, and then spread it out to cool just as soon as it is done draining. I always tie nylon rope around the laundry bag to support it, join the bights with a carabiner, and if it is heavy enough lift it out of the bath with a winch.
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Mr.Caterpillar
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Oh, and you should check that the core of the straw is reaching 165F, once you have that then let it soak in the bath for an hour.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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The heat generated by straw is what makes it a mold magnet. Large straw subs are usually one flush wonders. Small straw subs colonized invitro and sterilized are remarkably resistant and can flush much longer than you might suspect. My straw tek containers have gone for 7 before and often put out decent yields well into the 3rd or 4th flush.
Grains in straw are a major mold vector unless it is sterilized and colonized invitro. If your straw is full of grains I recommend my straw tek for it. Would do well with that method.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. As long as the grains in the straw are exposed to open air, it's always a fucking gamble. Kinda sucks, how the hell would you go about finding grainless straw?
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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I bought the bag, hopefully it'll mix well with my substrates. The straw is in 4" pieces, so all I really have to do is soak in a warm water bath, mix with some manure, and pasteurize properly
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Supalemonhaze
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4" is kinda long but workable in a pinch. I really like my straw to be fine, like this:

Mycelium just rips through it when it's all burst like that. Downside is that you have to use some kinda power tool. Weed whackers are awesome for getting fine straw.
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tump
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Leaf mulcher run through twice makes it a fine dust.
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Mr.Caterpillar
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Re: Chopped straw [Re: tump]
#23471196 - 07/24/16 01:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You have to have the right type though, some of them just choke on the straw. The type with an impeller doesn't work. I used to have one with blades that worked nicely. I understand that a hammermill shredder is the best for straw, but that is an expensive machine.
Also, about the grains: You look for them as you are shredding. You can only shred a little straw at a time, handful by handful, so you take a look at each handful, and if you see grain heads then you throw them out. Later, after you've pasteurized and are mixing it you keep your eyes peeled for grain heads (or any other debris) again and throw them out. By the time you've mixed everything you should have gotten rid of all the grains. Not to mention, try not to select a bale of straw that is obviously seedy to begin with. But I guess the dude who posted this has found a 1/4 bale that is already chopped! Nice!!
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Supalemonhaze
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I probably should stop hydrating straw inside the nylon net, some of the grains used to sink to the bottom when I didn't do that. It's annoying to hold all of the straw under water without it though.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
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I was going to say the same thing. I don't use a net (but I don't do large batches), so as I mix it and stir it in the water bath, the seeds generally fall to the bottom. I drain it by pouring into sink/outside, and as I take it out and mix, I usually leave about a 1/2" of straw on the bottom because thats where all the seeds have ended up. If u use nylon or net, maybe u could rinse the straw in open water, let the seeds fall, and then scoop it out back into a net and start the pasteurization? maybe the seeds fall to the bottom of the net anyway if u stir it, and u can try just leaving the last handful in the net if it looks like mostly seeds?
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Yeah, that's probably best. I can't really pour with the tubs I use, they are heavy once filled with water and can easily crack due to bending too much when lifted. Guess it's back to using a strainer to net the straw out.
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blindingleaf
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well hopefully if u agitate it enough in the bath, even though its in a net, the seeds might still fall to the bottom, so after u pull it out and drain, just try to keep it upright so the seeds stay in one place at the bottom of the net, and then u can just leave the last little handful as your pulling it out when spawning (as opposed to dumping it from the net into the tray/tub and having the seeds fall out too).
i dunno, maybe worth a try.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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I could test that out, I would just do that and leave the straw wet outside to see if any sprouts pop up.
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
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Quote:
Mr.Caterpillar said: You have to have the right type though, some of them just choke on the straw. The type with an impeller doesn't work. I used to have one with blades that worked nicely. I understand that a hammermill shredder is the best for straw, but that is an expensive machine.
Also, about the grains: You look for them as you are shredding. You can only shred a little straw at a time, handful by handful, so you take a look at each handful, and if you see grain heads then you throw them out. Later, after you've pasteurized and are mixing it you keep your eyes peeled for grain heads (or any other debris) again and throw them out. By the time you've mixed everything you should have gotten rid of all the grains. Not to mention, try not to select a bale of straw that is obviously seedy to begin with. But I guess the dude who posted this has found a 1/4 bale that is already chopped! Nice!!
Do you have a link for a shredder with the blades ? I'm curious to know what the blade assembly looks like in case I ever see a used one for sale.
I can't remember who said it but I remember that you need atleast a 7hp shredder for straw, which is probably about $6-700, there are lots of weaker ones for much cheaper.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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Re: Chopped straw [Re: invitro]
#23472474 - 07/24/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why not just buy a cheap weed whacker? I have this electric one that's been lying in my garage for years, it's small, possibly the smallest model you can find. It shreds a tote of straw very finely in 10-15 minutes. For something that's not gonna be used for hours at a time, dropping 600bux on it seems extreme.
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Mr.Caterpillar
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Re: Chopped straw [Re: invitro]
#23472621 - 07/24/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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No, I don't have a link. I had that shredder back in the mid '90s. A shredder might be a worthwhile investment for someone growing oysters on straw, but for cubies I agree with what Supalemonhaze says below:
Quote:
Why not just buy a cheap weed whacker? I have this electric one that's been lying in my garage for years, it's small, possibly the smallest model you can find. It shreds a tote of straw very finely in 10-15 minutes. For something that's not gonna be used for hours at a time, dropping 600bux on it seems extreme.
Actually I used to use an electric leaf blower also. It had some sort of shred function on it, and we'd put the straw through that. Not very good, but it was really cheap, and kinda worked.
All this said: I've got to say, straw is my least favorite substrate to work with! Shredding it is a messy, noisy, allergic reaction laden bundle of fun! I got into using composted substrates partly because I didn't like shredding straw. I'd much rather flip a pile than shred a bale!
The main use for straw is to balance the carbon-nitrogen ratio when you are using poo. Horse poo (and to a lesser extent cow poo) is too high in nitrogen by itself, and adding the straw balances that out with carbon. I used to use 50/50 straw/cow chips by volume, and I think that might work out to something more like 30/70 by weight. I think with hpoo you want the ratio of straw to poo to be higher. I used to cook straw and poo separately and then mix, however I now think that is not the best practice. Better to mix them dry and then cook - this way the straw is more effectively inoculated with the poo's resident thermophiles which will give a better pasteurization to the straw, and give you a more stable substrate.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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I don't think mixing dry is that important, or beneficial. Mixing dry means you'll have to throw it all in a tub of water and poo literally melts away in too much water. I think the pasteurization will make the poo easily absorbed by the softened straw, but this is just a guess. you should have already coated the straw pretty well with the poo at that point anyway.
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: 4" is kinda long but workable in a pinch. I really like my straw to be fine, like this:

Mycelium just rips through it when it's all burst like that. Downside is that you have to use some kinda power tool. Weed whackers are awesome for getting fine straw.
My straw looks very similar, it's very finely chopped and soft.
 I'm gonna give it a one hour soak in a warm soapy water bath. Then rinse it off and mix it into some dried horse manure, hydrate to field capacity and pasteurize.
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Mr.Caterpillar
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Quote:
Psilosoulful said:
 I'm gonna give it a one hour soak in a warm soapy water bath. Then rinse it off and mix it into some dried horse manure, hydrate to field capacity and pasteurize.
That looks great! Thanks for posting this! I just might get some of this too, but I won't water pasteurize it. I'll mix it with fresh horse poo (well, semi-fresh . . . ) and compost it, then phase it.
If you are doing a water bath pasteurization, I don't think you need to do all that pre-soaking.
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Psilosoulful

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Quote:
Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:
Psilosoulful said:
 I'm gonna give it a one hour soak in a warm soapy water bath. Then rinse it off and mix it into some dried horse manure, hydrate to field capacity and pasteurize.
That looks great! Thanks for posting this! I just might get some of this too, but I won't water pasteurize it. I'll mix it with fresh horse poo (well, semi-fresh . . . ) and compost it, then phase it.
If you are doing a water bath pasteurization, I don't think you need to do all that pre-soaking.
I was going to pasteurize it already mixed in with the manure, so I figured the pre-soak was necessary to clean it up a bit
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Mr.Caterpillar
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Quote:
I was going to pasteurize it already mixed in with the manure, so I figured the pre-soak was necessary to clean it up a bit
I'm not really clear on whether you're wetting this for an oven pasteurization, or doing a water bath. I've never done oven pasteurization - water bath always seemed the obvious way to go. So I'll ramble on about that a little bit.
Aside from removing grain heads, I never found cleaning up straw necessary. Straw isn't really "dirty". The shredding, and then the pasteurization bath soften it up adequately for the spawn. However, the poo should be totally dry before you give it any water bath or hydration of any kind. Someone else here said something about poo 'melting' in the water. That sounds like fresh poo to me (stinky!!). Dried poo doesn't dissolve, although it may crumble (and it has a pleasant earthy smell). Personally, I find cow chips picked from a pasture easiest to work with for water pasteurization. Horse poo (typically stable leavings in various states of decay) I prefer to compost as the composting standardizes the condition and texture of the hpoo, but I have dried loads of hpoo on tarps, and water pasteurized those too. I just don't like having my entire deck covered in horse shit - impacts the ol' 'quality of life', y'know?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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I've noticed the melting on both field aged and store manure. Composted manure does it more but there is a reason why the pillowcase method isn't used a lot nowadays on poo.
@psilosoulful, that is perfect, by the way you said 4" pieces I thought it was just cut, sort of like how you get it when hand cutting it. Mycelium has a harder time getting inside the straw when it still has it's original shape.
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Mr.Caterpillar
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Use dry poo and it doesn't 'melt' when you water pasteurize it. Don't know anything about any "pillowcase method" - never used it. I used mesh laundry bags for water bath pasteurization, and they work fine for straw or for dried manure - very practical technique; nothing outdated about it.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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To each his own I guess.
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Psilosoulful

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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: @psilosoulful, that is perfect, by the way you said 4" pieces I thought it was just cut, sort of like how you get it when hand cutting it. Mycelium has a harder time getting inside the straw when it still has it's original shape.
Awesome! I have 25lbs of the stuff. It should last me forever and a day haha
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