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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23469111 - 07/23/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

you dont use bags so big you cant lift them since you want the core to get to temp.
No one uses pillowcases for pasteurizing manure anymore, why do you keep asking questions if you're just gonna do it your old skool way anyway?
I'm not asking you to change everything you're doing just try it and see what all the fuzz is about, especially if you think the old way is a PITA :thumbup:


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23469358 - 07/23/16 01:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

No one uses pillowcases for pasteurizing manure anymore, why do you keep asking questions if you're just gonna do it your old skool way anyway?




I've never used a pillowcase to pasteurize anything.  That's an obviously dumb way to do things.  What gave you that idea?

Spacechildo, while there is a certain pleasure in debating things with you, I have to say that I'm not getting the impression you understand the point of this post to begin with.  Go back and look at what I am doing.  You'll note that the point of it is to process relatively large amounts of coir efficiently.  When you are telling me to put the coir  in my pressure cooker, you are basically telling me, "Hey, why bother making twelve monotubs in a few hours when you can make two or three in many more hours?"  It would be great if you actually had some suggestions relevant to my goals rather than just telling me to do something else completely.


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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23469419 - 07/23/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What i do is put a trash bag in a cooler, put the substrate in, and add enough boiling water to hydrate it letting it set overnight. Works for most kinds of bulk substrate materials except used coffee grounds and sawdust.


--------------------
"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23469616 - 07/23/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:

No one uses pillowcases for pasteurizing manure anymore, why do you keep asking questions if you're just gonna do it your old skool way anyway?




I've never used a pillowcase to pasteurize anything.  That's an obviously dumb way to do things.  What gave you that idea?

Spacechildo, while there is a certain pleasure in debating things with you, I have to say that I'm not getting the impression you understand the point of this post to begin with.  Go back and look at what I am doing.  You'll note that the point of it is to process relatively large amounts of coir efficiently.  When you are telling me to put the coir  in my pressure cooker, you are basically telling me, "Hey, why bother making twelve monotubs in a few hours when you can make two or three in many more hours?"  It would be great if you actually had some suggestions relevant to my goals rather than just telling me to do something else completely.




You said you had to drain off the manure and that you didnt add water to it because it sept in during pasteurization anyway, makes me think you're using something like a pillowcase.

The reason I said you can sterilize coir was to tell you there's no poitn in pasteurizing it,
and that if you dont think 90mins @ 15 psi makes a difference vs pasteurization or bucket tek just try it and see for yourself.

To prep large amounts of coir just get a huge container that holds temp well and dump boiling water onto coir.
its easier to mix if you chip off the brick and not have 1 big 5kg lump in the container.

TL;DR you're overthinking this, coir is fool proof trust me!


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23469700 - 07/23/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I think the point is when processing that much substrate, it's the best route to things the best you can, yeah coir works in all kinds of ways, but when doing a large run of anything you want optimize your chances of success if you have the ability to do so, that's why I like what he's doing.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23469732 - 07/23/16 03:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

But pasteurizing coir isnt the way to optimize it, this is what I'm saying, coir wants as high temps as possible to break down lignin and make cellulose more available.
So if you pasteurize and make sure you're not getting past 160-170F you're just wasting time, get that heat up and keep it there!


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23469801 - 07/23/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You said you had to drain off the manure and that you didnt add water to it because it sept in during pasteurization anyway, makes me think you're using something like a pillowcase.




I used mesh laundry bags - pillow cases won't drain, and besides they're too small.  Back in the day I did it I'd collect the poo using the laundry bags.  I'd make a rope harness for the bag, and then submerge it in a garbage can of 165F water heated up on a crab boiler.  After the pasteurization was done, I pulled the bag out with a winch attaching to the rope harness.  Hanging over the garbage can it would drain off the excess water.  I had a scaffold with two winches attached so that I could cook two bags at a time.  If memory serves me right (this was a while back) I was making 8 bags of poo, and eight of chopped straw that I then mixed together before spawning and filling trays for the growroom.  As I was saying, between collecting poo and chopping straw and cooking and mixing and spawning it all the technique is really labor intensive, so it motivated me to learn phase 2 pasteurization which I did successfully for several years.

Now I want to work with coir (which I used to use as casing when I was doing the straw/poo runs).  I do not think it is foolproof at all.  I have made a number of mistakes working with it already.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23469842 - 07/23/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
But pasteurizing coir isnt the way to optimize it, this is what I'm saying, coir wants as high temps as possible to break down lignin and make cellulose more available.
So if you pasteurize and make sure you're not getting past 160-170F you're just wasting time, get that heat up and keep it there!




I understand what your saying, but sterilizing 100 lb.s or more of substrate is going to be a way bigger errand than pasteurizing if you can find an efficient way processing it, that's why everyone has been building bulk steamers for sawdust bags, because sterilizing that much mass in PC's is a big task.


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23469843 - 07/23/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So if you pasteurize and make sure you're not getting past 160-170F you're just wasting time, get that heat up and keep it there!




In that case the process would be to boil the coir, and get its core temp up to 212F.  I'd have to set up a rig using laundry bags, winches, garbage cans, scaffold etc. just as I described in the previous post. However, what I am trying to do now (just scaling up bucket tek a bit) is so much easier than that!  I am just looking for that sweet spot between ease of effort and successful outcome.  I've seen pictures of so many phenomenal results using bucket tek that it is hard for me to see why one should do more than just pour boiling water on the coir.  And I am not convinced it does not benefit from pasteurization . . .


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23469844 - 07/23/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

dirty spawn or foreign objects like grains in your brick.
just search and see what the TCs here have been doing the last 3-4 yrs, no one, and I mean NO one of the regulars here bother properly pasteurizing their coir.


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23470017 - 07/23/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:

You can get away with using CVG not even heat treated at all. All you need is good culture. Again, I do not recommend that either.




I've tried this.  Highly NOT recommended!  When I start experimenting with a process I try to begin with the easiest least work/expense approach.  Spawning to pre-hydrated coir straight out of the bag was the first experiment - really crappy results.





I used hot tap water to expand three 66qt tubs worth of cvg in a tote. Didn't have time to boil water and let it cool.
Ten minutes after dumping the water I mixed it and spawned.

Suprised to see the hatred for the method. It's gotten me weight. I'll be doing it again.


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: filthyknees]
    #23470026 - 07/23/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

nothing wrong with that, beauty of coir. substrate is mostly a water reservoir anyway, bet colonization was right on time too with hot tap water!


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23470461 - 07/23/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Suprised to see the hatred for the method. It's gotten me weight. I'll be doing it again.




"Hatred" is far too strong a word! Do I give off a vibe of 'hatred'?  I really don't think so.

However, I was not pleased with my results using hot tap water.  You did much better than me in any of the three runs I have done with hot tap water.  There are a some other variables that could have affected my results negatively.  I'd like to know what you did differently, because, frankly if just plain old hot water from the tap does the trick then I would LOVE it!


These two are representative of my better tubs - just okay imo.  Tasmanian strain.

And above is a problematic tub.  It looks to me like some type of overlay that I've not seen before.


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23470519 - 07/23/16 08:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It's not so personal as a trend of hundreds of threads over years of people blathering on uselessly about their moot opinions on what to do with cvg.

Like any time in life when I know you can do anything, but still people will still tell me what to do
Not personal, your set up looks dooooope :smile:

When people post stuff like " I do NOT reccomend xyz" it's like people who have tried it know when they see stuff like people putting methods down as bunk when really they are fine. But a lot of people assume random posters know what they're talking about and take it as truth. Just confusing and unnessecary


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: filthyknees]
    #23470749 - 07/23/16 09:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I'm not going to recommend anything that hasn't worked for me personally. I just don't like having what I say characterized as expressing hatred - that's too much. I don't hate any kind of mushroom growing technique, or any mushroom grower, or any grower's opinions - they all have their place, and I have respect for all - even if I don't always agree.  Mushroom growing has been a life long love for me!

That said, what I was saying I would not recommend is using pre-hydrated coir and spawning directly to it.  I did not get good results that way.  What you are doing is different.  I also just did several runs with hot water straight from my hot water heater, and that didn't turn out for me well either.  However, as I was saying, I suspect their were some significant differences between your scenario and mine.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23475829 - 07/25/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hey, so I was wondering how long on the propane burner did it take to boil the water? And was it a pain in the ass pouring that? I was thinking about maybe using a small trash can like you for boiling the water and dumping the coir and other ingredients into the can when it comes to a boil and taking a shovel to it for a quick mix and then cover. And maybe for cooling it could be treated like cooling straw, except maybe cooled by transfering the coir right to the tubs themselves that will be used to spawn to, and maybe even cooled more rapidly in the lab with the HEPA running.


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/25/16 03:10 PM)


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23476621 - 07/25/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Seems like 10 gallons came to a boil in about an hour. 

I have a 1/2 gallon pyrex glass pitcher that I used to scoop the water.

Dumping your ingredients into the water sounds messy to me.  I would put them in a mesh laundry bag, make a rope harness to support the bag, and then pull it out of the bath with a winch if you want to do it as a bath.  I think coir is not so great for waterbath because it doesn't let go of water that easily, so it seems that it is easy to get it too wet, but I suppose you can balance it with the addition of verm.


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