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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23467261 - 07/22/16 07:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

chip off whatever you gonna use and weigh it. ~4qt's water pr 650g coir makes ~9 litres


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23467272 - 07/22/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

partial sterilization is far from pasteurization man, partial sterilization means the core temp has gotten above pasteurizing temps for 10-15mins or more.

If you think bucket tek is proper pasteurization try doing manure with it :shrug: you'll see plenty of fails because of it.

Only thing that matters with coir is you heat-treat it, break down the lignin to make cellulose more available for the myc.
insulate your bucket TEK bucket with another one with hot water in f.example.
just dont waste your time properly pasteurizing coir and monitoring temps. save that for manure/coffee/castings etc.




This gets into the semantics of the word 'sterilization':  A pasteurization is considered a 'partial sterilization' because it kills certain microbes while allowing others (thermophiles) to live.  Sterilize is fancy word for 'kill'.  In a PC the core temp of your coir might be in the pasteurization range at a 15psi/90m cook.

Hmm . . . manure has to be dried thoroughly before it can be water bath pasteurized.  When I did it the pasteurization water was drained off after it was done.  I think that draining the water off may be important for manure (it certainly is for straw), so the bucket tek might not work for that reason even though it could adequately provide pasteurization temps to the poo.  Also, the bucket tek may not be cooling the manure quickly enough, and so with the richer microbial content of the poo there is a an overbloom of thermophiles that screws it up.

Yeah, I've heard it said before that the coir only needs heating and hydrating.  That may be, but I'd like to see some real science on that.


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23467275 - 07/22/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I meant to do a whole block in a run, or are you saying you would do that a bucket per tub for the whole brick?


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23467308 - 07/22/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

How do you go about prepping a 5Kg brick?




Eh?  That's what this thread is about!  Read the post at the top - that's where I explain how I'm doing it.  However, keep in mind this is an experiment - a process I am just developing.  It'd be great if you give it a shot, though.  I'd like to see how it works for someone else.  This process, using 24qts of spawn, will make about 12 monotubs containing 10qts of substrate each, in other words, 12 66qt monotubs filled to about 3" depth.  That should be just under a 1:4 spawn ration, so you might want to up the amount of spawn.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23467311 - 07/22/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
I meant to do a whole block in a run, or are you saying you would do that a bucket per tub for the whole brick?




I dont have 25 gallon buckets but just do the math :super:

Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
This gets into the semantics of the word 'sterilization':  A pasteurization is considered a 'partial sterilization' because it kills certain microbes while allowing others (thermophiles) to live.  Sterilize is fancy word for 'kill'.  In a PC the core temp of your coir might be in the pasteurization range at a 15psi/90m cook.

Hmm . . . manure has to be dried thoroughly before it can be water bath pasteurized.  When I did it the pasteurization water was drained off after it was done.  I think that draining the water off may be important for manure (it certainly is for straw), so the bucket tek might not work for that reason even though it could adequately provide pasteurization temps to the poo.  Also, the bucket tek may not be cooling the manure quickly enough, and so with the richer microbial content of the poo there is a an overbloom of thermophiles that screws it up.




first, its not just semantics because "partial sterilizations" has a meaning, and its not pasteurization it means it means you went above pasteurization temps. so if you tell people you partially sterilized your manure you basically say you fucked up. you mean pasteurized.

Just try to sterilize your coir once, you'll see the difference it looks much darker.
If 15psi for 90mins meant core gets to pasteurization temps we couldn't sterilized our grains that way :shrug:

you want dry aged manure, but then you get it to field capacity before pasteurizing.
bucket tek starts at too high temps which usually means partial sterilization (the bad kind)


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23467327 - 07/22/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)



You might need to adjust your monitor since its kind of dark, but in the gloom of the cement mixing tub on the left you'll note a whole 5kg block of coir waiting patiently to have 10gal of boiling water poured all over it!


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23467332 - 07/22/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:

How do you go about prepping a 5Kg brick?




Eh?  That's what this thread is about!  Read the post at the top - that's where I explain how I'm doing it.  However, keep in mind this is an experiment - a process I am just developing.  It'd be great if you give it a shot, though.  I'd like to see how it works for someone else.  This process, using 24qts of spawn, will make about 12 monotubs containing 10qts of substrate each, in other words, 12 66qt monotubs filled to about 3" depth.  That should be just under a 1:4 spawn ration, so you might want to up the amount of spawn.



Oh I know that's why I am following it, I was just wondering what he does as well.
I will do this with you, I have spawn bags that will be ready by next week, the reason I am interested is I will have just enough spawn for the whole brick, 12 8 lb. bags of rye, which would roughly be 8 quarts of spawn each, which is what I usually use for 66qt mono's, I don't know if that's a higher ratio than what's usually used around here or not?


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/22/16 09:12 PM)


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23467382 - 07/22/16 08:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

So I am in the process of building a 55 gallon drum low pressure steamer for my sawdust bags, like gr0wers if you have ever seen his down in the gourmet forum and on youtube. I am thinking when that is done it may serve great pasteurizing large amounts of coir in bags. It my take 3 or 4 hours to get to core temp or whatever since it's coco, but you could probably do 4 5kg bricks worth of substrate, and pretty damn close to properly if not properly pasteurized. And as far as rapid cooling, you can maybe place the bags straight from the steamer to shallow tubs of ice water, that's just an initial thought about rapid cooling, I haven't read into it, but I definitely trust a whole lot of what Frank has wrote. What do you think of that idea?


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/22/16 09:01 PM)


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23467648 - 07/22/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So I am in the process of building a 55 gallon drum low pressure steamer for my sawdust bags, like gr0wers if you have ever seen his down in the gourmet forum and on youtube. I am thinking when that is done it may serve great pasteurizing large amounts of coir in bags. It my take 3 or 4 hours to get to core temp or whatever since it's coco, but you could probably do 4 5kg bricks worth of substrate, and pretty damn close to properly if not properly pasteurized. What do you think of that idea?




I think it sounds great!  However, being able to pasteurize more coir than I can process at a time may have its own drawbacks, but perhaps those are categorically 'good problems' to have!  I'm doing it this way because it is cheap, quick, and dirty - and hopefully it works well.  Perhaps a cement mixer is the right compliment to the low pressure steamer?


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23467678 - 07/22/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:

So I am in the process of building a 55 gallon drum low pressure steamer for my sawdust bags, like gr0wers if you have ever seen his down in the gourmet forum and on youtube. I am thinking when that is done it may serve great pasteurizing large amounts of coir in bags. It my take 3 or 4 hours to get to core temp or whatever since it's coco, but you could probably do 4 5kg bricks worth of substrate, and pretty damn close to properly if not properly pasteurized. What do you think of that idea?




I think it sounds great!  However, being able to pasteurize more coir than I can process at a time may have its own drawbacks, but perhaps those are categorically 'good problems' to have!  I'm doing it this way because it is cheap, quick, and dirty - and hopefully it works well.  Perhaps a cement mixer is the right compliment to the low pressure steamer?




Cement mixer all the way, I want one anyways for mixing sawdust pellets which is a bitch. Yeah I figure If I already have the steamer, why not take one day a month to get coir ready for that whole month, I have found that coir stays good forever sealed in filter patch bags.


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/22/16 10:05 PM)


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23467684 - 07/22/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Im going try what your doing here this coming week, Im still a few parts away from getting the steamer done.


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23468153 - 07/23/16 01:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

"gr0wers" is someone's handle here on the Shroomery?


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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23468236 - 07/23/16 02:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

gr0wer, he is really good, he has a ton of write ups and awesome builds in the gourmet forum, on youtube he is Meyers Mushrooms, he has his builds and his commercial growing up there.


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23468249 - 07/23/16 02:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
Im going try what your doing here this coming week, Im still a few parts away from getting the steamer done.




I'll check out gr0wers!  Thank you!!

I'm flattered that you'd want to try my process here.  Thanks!!  Its pretty straight forward, and I don't see why it wouldn't work.  However, that said, it is not really tested.  However, I'll be looking forward to seeing your results! 

Tomorrow morning I will go ahead and spawn what I've done. The way the gypsum is mixed in is not ideal, and I'll handle the gypsum differently next time, but I think it will be okay for now. I've got six bags of Tasmanian strain to use.


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23468254 - 07/23/16 02:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm mainly just looking for a way to process large amounts of coco, I will admit I am weary of the ice, and may brain storm on another rapid cooling technique, but am definitely open to see what happens here with this batch of yours. I like your style man,I saw your small grow room with the mesh shelving, bad ass dude, I have a grow room too, it's full of oysters right now and probably for a while, but I am interested in starting to move cubes in there, I'm only experienced with mono tubs when it comes to the cubes.


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23468257 - 07/23/16 02:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

As far as gypsum, this might not do shit bit it's what I do is mix gypsum up in the water before I hydrate, but that may be harder with boiling water, thats what I do when I do a normal pasteurization run.


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23468259 - 07/23/16 02:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If 15psi for 90mins meant core gets to pasteurization temps we couldn't sterilized our grains that way




You'd sterilize grain jars just fine that way, but for spawn bags I cook for 4 hours.  I've always been under the impression that you need longer cook times the larger and denser the mass you are sterilizing.

Quote:

you want dry aged manure, but then you get it to field capacity before pasteurizing.




I always collected the cow patties dried in the fields in the very same mesh laundry bags I pasteurized in.  If possible, I'd leave the laundry bags in the sun to dry out some more before pasteurizing.  I don't see why you'd want to wet it to field capacity first - seems like a big unnecessary  step to me.  I mean, it comes out of the hot water bath perfectly moist, and then you crumble it by hand and mix with chopped straw - its great!  . . . and a ton of work.


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23468265 - 07/23/16 02:42 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
As far as gypsum, this might not do shit bit it's what I do is mix gypsum up in the water before I hydrate, but that may be harder with boiling water, thats what I do when I do a normal pasteurization run.




That's just what I did, and it was a mess.  That may work on a very small scale, but when you are trying to mix quarts of gypsum into gallons of water its not so easy.  Maybe with a mixing attachment on a drill - sort of thing used for mixing tiling grout in a bucket - you could get the gypsum to dissolve better in the water. 

No, I think it will be better to mix the gypsum with the verm and mix them together into the hydrated coir.  That's what I'll do next time.  The gypsum I have is in little round pellets.


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23468468 - 07/23/16 07:24 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:

you want dry aged manure, but then you get it to field capacity before pasteurizing.




I always collected the cow patties dried in the fields in the very same mesh laundry bags I pasteurized in.  If possible, I'd leave the laundry bags in the sun to dry out some more before pasteurizing.  I don't see why you'd want to wet it to field capacity first - seems like a big unnecessary  step to me.  I mean, it comes out of the hot water bath perfectly moist, and then you crumble it by hand and mix with chopped straw - its great!  . . . and a ton of work.




yeah pillow case pasteurization is a bitch, use bags instead.
you get it to field capacity because water transfers heat better.
just checkout frankhorrigans pasteurization TEK, shows you everytyhing you need to know!


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Re: 5kg Coir Block Pasteurization Process [Re: spacechildo]
    #23469093 - 07/23/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

you get it to field capacity because water transfers heat better.




Wetting dried poo before you cook it in water is a total fool's errand!  I used dried poo+chopped straw as my substrate for a couple of years.  I know that of which I speak. Poo+straw is a great sub, but a pain in the ass to prepare.  Hydrating the poo before you cook it would only make a lot more work.  A significant part of the art of mushroom farming is materials handling.  If you add water to something you are going to make it significantly heavier to move.  A bag of dried cow chips is a cinch to put in a water bath, a bag of wet cow chips would be rather heavy.  And I believe the extra weight of the cold water would slow down the heating process, not speed it up.


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