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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Music / Online Piracy
    #2346628 - 02/17/04 06:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

First, what do all of you think about the trading of full-length music and video on the internet? Morally right or wrong?

Second, thinking that, do you still do it or not?

Most of my friends trade files with the reasons always being that they are just ripping off rich people and that it won't be noticed any way.

I personally realize that it is wrong to trade music and video (as well as full-version software) and that their are victims to this crime. However, my thought is that I would NEVER buy a CD or a DVD, so they really aren't losing money by me downloading it.

For music, I'd say that if I were a musician, and this is from my observation of friends that are in bands, I'd be in heaven if people REALLY loved my music. As an artist, I'd say that I was glad people were enjoying my work. As a person with bills to pay, I'd be upset if it really put a large dent in my profit flow

What I'm seeking here is how many people realize that it probably is wrong to dowload/trade files liek this, but still do it.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2346744 - 02/17/04 06:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What I'm seeking here is how many people realize that it probably is wrong to dowload/trade files liek this, but still do it.





guilty on both counts.

but i still think that I'm in the red when it comes down to a comparison of all the things I've stolen and everything thats been stolen from me.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Anonymous

Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2346753 - 02/17/04 06:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

it's wrong, but i do it.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: ]
    #2346770 - 02/17/04 06:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Same, but I mainly do it to get a feel for what a certain artist sounds like, and if I like them I'll buy their album, so it actually contributes to my album purchases, rather than reducing them.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMagus
Dazed

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 36
Loc: Midwest USA
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: silversoul7]
    #2346781 - 02/17/04 06:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with silversoul... a while ago I was like "Greatful Dead has a cool image and are associated with bands I like... I wonder if they are worth getting into." Then I downloaded a dozen or so Greatful Dead songs that popped up and now I'm interested enough to buy a couple albums when I can afford it.


--------------------
Disclaimer:

1. When I use the word "I", it means a friend of a friend wants me to ask. The word "I" simply cuts down on the amount of letters I need to type.

2. I do not engage in illegal activities. I am appaled by all of you and your apparent disregard for the law.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,201
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: Magus]
    #2346864 - 02/17/04 07:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I download a song or two, then buy if I like it, delete if I don't.



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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2346961 - 02/17/04 07:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

commendable :thumbup:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,088
Loc: High pride!
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Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2347099 - 02/17/04 08:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Obviously I do it. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Here's my justification.

I've decided that it's not stealing as long as it's intangible. However, if you take that album and make money off of it in any way, that's wrong.




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Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



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Anonymous

Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: Learyfan]
    #2347105 - 02/17/04 08:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I've decided that it's not stealing as long as it's intangible.

correct. it is copyright infringment.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: ]
    #2347123 - 02/17/04 08:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What do they think people are doing with all of these blank cd's and tapes?




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: Learyfan]
    #2347139 - 02/17/04 08:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
What do they think people are doing with all of these blank cd's and tapes?



Those have legitimate purposes as well. For example, I've burned a couple CD's of tracks I made on my computer.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2347380 - 02/17/04 09:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:





Nice collection you have there.  :smile2:


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,088
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 10 hours, 16 minutes
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: silversoul7]
    #2347384 - 02/17/04 09:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I know they have legitimate uses, but so does ergotamine tartrate.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,201
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: ]
    #2348729 - 02/18/04 05:17 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks. There's more but I need to build a new rack.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2355033 - 02/19/04 04:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I do it and have no problems with it whatsoever.

I will happily support artists that I like. Going to shows is the best way to do this. I will even buy CD's of songs I have downloaded, Lets face it, theres something nice about owning a real CD...

As for the RIAA, fuck em.

In the bigtime recording industry, the artist is the last party to be paid. Money from CD sales goes to a bunch of suits and coffers before it reaches the artists. I think artists should make the brunt of their money on live performances, but mostly I think artists main motivation should not be the money the will make. I think its pretty safe to say that no one here is a big fan of contemporary pop music, but thats the best example. Its just pure manufactured revenue generating garbage. Thats what you get when you cross big business with music. I say take the big business out of it.

Without big business I think you'd have less people in it for the money, resulting in an overall rise in quality - as only the people that are really passionate about it would be left...

Think about it, the best music was made before the recording industry was even around....

There


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Anonymous

Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2355139 - 02/19/04 04:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

In the bigtime recording industry, the artist is the last party to be paid.

actually they're usually the first to get paid.

Money from CD sales goes to a bunch of suits and coffers before it reaches the artists.

yes, but the artist has already been paid for the record deal. royalties are extra, and based on a percentage which the artist and the label have agreed upon.

I think artists should make the brunt of their money on live performances, but mostly I think artists main motivation should not be the money the will make.

it's fine for you to think that (i even agree with you), but how does that justify copyright infringement?

I think its pretty safe to say that no one here is a big fan of contemporary pop music, but thats the best example. Its just pure manufactured revenue generating garbage. Thats what you get when you cross big business with music.

1. don't buy it then.
2. eliminating the record labels is not going to make better music more available.

I say take the big business out of it.

if any artist so desires, they don't have to sign to a record company. most upstart bands dream of the day they get signed to a serious record label. why is that?

Without big business I think you'd have less people in it for the money, resulting in an overall rise in quality - as only the people that are really passionate about it would be left...

are the truly passionate not currently making music because of the labels?

Think about it, the best music was made before the recording industry was even around....

a opinion. personally i think that better music has been created since.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: ]
    #2355316 - 02/19/04 05:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

actually they're usually the first to get paid.

No, they're the last. I think the Beatles royalty rate was something like 6 cents out of the cost of the album. Paul Mcartney says he's still on pretty much the same royalty rate today as he signed for in 1962.

yes, but the artist has already been paid for the record deal.

Not generally that much. The money paid to an unknown for a record deal is obviously going to be piss-all compared to the money generated if their first album sells 10 million copies.

royalties are extra, and based on a percentage which the artist and the label have agreed upon.

A rate vastly in the labels favour remember. Unknown artists generally arn't in the position to negotiate.


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Anonymous

Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: Xlea321]
    #2355444 - 02/19/04 05:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

so what do you think should be done, eh?

the relationship between a record company and an artist is completely voluntary. some people have decided to get together and provide a service, and artists have decided that it would be wise to use this service. why should you, or anyone else, have any right to interfere in their relationship? it's absolutely none of your business.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: ]
    #2355599 - 02/19/04 06:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

First off thank you for cutting that up. Poorly thought out and hastily done posts are not a good habit to fall into.

Heres some stuff I found dealing with Artist/Recording Industry strife..


The Problem With Music

Steve Albini is an independent and corporate rock record producer most widely known for having produced Nirvana's "In Utero".


(Hypothetical Band)
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.

Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000
Band member net income each: $4,031.25

.....


Recording Industry Practices Hearing Summary

The accounting practices controversy really has a number of sub-categories. These include the structure of contracts, recoupment, the lack of penalties for underpayment, restrictions on the right to audit, and royalty provisions that are purposefully vague and subject to slanted interpretation.

Recoupment One of the biggest complaints of artists is the structure of record contracts such that most of the major costs including the costs of recording the record are recouped against the artist?s royalties. Further, at least half of the costs of videos and other major promotional costs are charged against the artists share. As such, for a modestly successful record, while the record company makes the upfront investment and takes the financial risk, the artist actually pays for most of the costs. This is seen by artists as patently unfair, particularly considering that the record companies own the fruits of the artists? labor, the master recordings. It is as if one made mortgage payments but never took title to the house. No other industry with royalty artists operates this way.
....



if any artist so desires, they don't have to sign to a record company. most upstart bands dream of the day they get signed to a serious record label. why is that?

For the most part I'd have to say fame. Getting signed to a major record label would be the quickest route to that... Though there are others, like building your own studio/production company. But that requires more time, money, and is not really viable to the majority of artists. I use Minus/Plus8 as an example(not popular in the mainstream, but in the techno world).

But I also do not think that people dreaming of being signed by a big record label are 100% aware of how things are run in that business. If the two articles I provided are factual, then I can see where there would be some regret on the parts of some artists...

are the truly passionate not currently making music because of the labels?

No, theres just a possibility that the fruits of their passion is being unevely distributed between them and the labels they signed with.

As stated in the last article, only the top echelon of successful artists can afford to audit their contract with the record company to make sure they are getting theirs. The rest of em, well theres a good chance they are not.


a opinion. personally i think that better music has been created since.

Yes. It would have been better to say that music was alive and well long before the advent of the recording industry. (I'm a fan of classical)

But mostly the last post illustrated my disdain for centralized corporatism. I am a big fan of local musicians, mp3.com and thelikes...

As far as DLing music goes, I don't think Iim upsetting anyone as I do not DL much of what the RIAA is protecting. My biggest gripe is the same playlists for each genre across the country. The basic lockdown these few have over the entire industry. If people DLing music helps to bring that down, it may not be moral or ethical(I say all is fair), but its what I'd like to see. I'll admit to having it out for guys in suits;)

Then again thats just me, if the majority felt the same way, these huge companies might not be where they are. So I guess its only fair to leave it up to them.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Music / Online Piracy [Re: ]
    #2355618 - 02/19/04 06:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I was actually pretty surprised by what Maynard James Keenan(from Tool and A Perfect circle, for those of you that have been living on Mars for the past ten years) had to say about file-sharing in this interview.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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