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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23465678 - 07/22/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

how did the bacteria get in there then? I think its an over-simplification to think you cant get bacteria from poor sterile tech. sure they dont sporulate but they are everywhere.

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #23465722 - 07/22/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Endospores? Physically contaminating 9 jars in the act of a g2g with bacteria exclusively is next to impossible IMO. I mean, if 5 jars went bacterial and 4 jars went moldy, I would bet an organ it was the sterile tek. ---Edit: Although a scenario more likely would be 9 moldy jars with signs of bacteria.-----

Also, these jars don't have the amount of bacteria that would make a jar stall. They still grew out on bulk and produced shrooms. The bacteria contam is slight, but definitely noticeable. There is only 2 explainations I can think of, endospores or invisible bacteria contam in every single plate I do. :shrug:

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23465752 - 07/22/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

try a different grain and see if that helps, giving up on g2g is not the answer IMO!

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #23465758 - 07/22/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

At the end of my sterile work like last week, I took a blank agar plate and walked around my room with the lid off while slowly swiping the plate through the air, then put the lid back on and set it up on a shelf. I did this just as an experiment to check the spore load in there,I have done practices on blanks cutting it in a SAB and came back clean this was just open air. so I expected to return to see some mold growth, but lo and behold just bacteria :shrug: didn't touch or cut the agar at all so I would assume (not educated on it enough to say scientifically) that this bacteria can be in the air. However, like I said, didn't get any while working in the SAB and I know your tech is much more practiced than mine. I would assume it's more than sterile technique at play here as well. I'm excited to try Li as you suggested though, because imo it'd be more efficient to turn one plate into 10 jars to start rather than one jar then 10.


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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #23465794 - 07/22/16 11:54 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, bacteria can definitely be in the air but IME mold spores highly outnumber airborne bacteria in terms of quantity.

Quote:

spacechildo said:
try a different grain and see if that helps, giving up on g2g is not the answer IMO!




I still use it on oysters which is where it's needed most for me. Laundry baskets are a bitch to fill. Haven't had a kick ass enough clone or isolate so far, so as long as I'm just messing with MS and testing cultures, wedges work great for me.

I could do LI if I wanted to get shit done as fast (if not faster) than G2G but really, once you start inoculating jars every week, speed is not an issue. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat.

Edit:

You make a good point about the grain, it is definitely worth looking into if I ever find a grain that contends with oats.

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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23466032 - 07/22/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Yeah, bacteria can definitely be in the air but IME mold spores highly outnumber airborne bacteria in terms of quantity.

Quote:

spacechildo said:
try a different grain and see if that helps, giving up on g2g is not the answer IMO!




I still use it on oysters which is where it's needed most for me. Laundry baskets are a bitch to fill. Haven't had a kick ass enough clone or isolate so far, so as long as I'm just messing with MS and testing cultures, wedges work great for me.

I could do LI if I wanted to get shit done as fast (if not faster) than G2G but really, once you start inoculating jars every week, speed is not an issue. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat.

Edit:

You make a good point about the grain, it is definitely worth looking into if I ever find a grain that contends with oats.




I'm taking it you only use first generation master jars for inoculating subs? I see what you mean about doing that every week being just as quick, but don't you also need need new slants and plates just as often that way? I dont think of G2G as speed but mycelial mileage which is way more valuable.
Haze, also a tip for G2g jars, when I first started I would get some bacteria during transfers and I couldn't figure it out, I started really going to town with Iso under the ring of the master jars before cracking them open, havn't seen bacteria in G2G bags or jars since. Especially working in front of a hood you have to get that master jar clean as fuck.

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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23466106 - 07/22/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Agar is cheap, I don't think of that as a problem. A single clean agar plate can make a half pint of LI (more if you wanted to) which can inoculate just as many jars as G2G. That said, I still prefer g2gs for their speed so I still use them for my oyster grows.

I don't use 2pc lids with my jars, my lids don't go down the side of the jar so I can clean it easily with an iso soaked paper towel, I still squirt iso in the threads though out of habit but this doesn't really get iso in there with the jars I use. I figure that if the paper towel is dirty, the squirt of iso is helping wash the shit away. The bacteria you were getting probably wasn't from the outside of the jar though, the grains never touch the dirty side of the lip during a g2g. If they did, or if the flow pushed contams from the outside to the inside your jars you would get as much molds as you were getting bacteria anyway.

You are right though, 1st generation is more than enough for my needs, most home growers don't even have the space to fruit 100grain jars worth of spawn.

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #23466109 - 07/22/16 01:48 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rooster Cogburn said:
Ok, I see what you mean. As far as published work go's what do you feel is the most up to date piece of work concerning mushroom cultivation besides TMC or GGMM?




As far as i can tell (and my post count certainly doesnt reflect how much i have read), the newest edition of TMC and GGMM are definitely the most comprehensive published work for our purposes. They are a wealth of excellent info, and a great starting point and reference material alike.

Of course there are some people who think they know more than Paul Stamets, RR, and the other brilliant minds who investigate great subjects and publish their work for our benefit, but that has a lot more to do with their own arrogance than the availability of better published works

Quote:

spacechildo said:
shroomery.org :bigyesnod:




shroomery is without a doubt the most comprehensive mycology forum on the net, and i could spend a lifetime reading and learning from the resources on here. But bear in mind, a thread or tek is a far cry from a vetted, peer-reviewed publication. random-hippie-reviewed is not the same as mycologist reviewed.

With that in mind, there is no better place to ask questions and learn current techniques (especially when RR and co are around) and learn from others' successes and failures.

Edited by c10h12n2o (07/22/16 01:51 PM)

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23466117 - 07/22/16 01:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

because some of these "random hippies" here, who make the teks, and/or test those said teks definitely havent grown way more psychedelic mushrooms than almost any "real" mycologist out there.... hope you can sense the enormous load of sarcasm.

sure, there are teks made by noobs, that dont work very well.. but there are also up-to-date, tried-and-true teks here, made by those "random hippies".


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23466124 - 07/22/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
shroomery is without a doubt the most comprehensive mycology forum on the net, and i could spend a lifetime reading and learning from the resources on here. But bear in mind, a thread or tek is a way from a vetted, peer-reviewed publication. random-hippie-reviewed is not the same as mycologist reviewed.




Is this a joke? I'd love to hear more about how TMC was peer reviewed before release.. And what makes a mycologist a random-hippie once he logs on to the internet?

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23466144 - 07/22/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Agar is cheap, I don't think of that as a problem. A single clean agar plate can make a half pint of LI (more if you wanted to) which can inoculate just as many jars as G2G. That said, I still prefer g2gs for their speed so I still use them for my oyster grows.

I don't use 2pc lids with my jars, my lids don't go down the side of the jar so I can clean it easily with an iso soaked paper towel, I still squirt iso in the threads though out of habit but this doesn't really get iso in there with the jars I use. I figure that if the paper towel is dirty, the squirt of iso is helping wash the shit away. The bacteria you were getting probably wasn't from the outside of the jar though, the grains never touch the dirty side of the lip during a g2g. If they did, or if the flow pushed contams from the outside to the inside your jars you would get as much molds as you were getting bacteria anyway.

You are right though, 1st generation is more than enough for my needs, most home growers don't even have the space to fruit 100grain jars worth of spawn.



Incubating space is crazy with jars as well, main reason I started using spawn bags too. I grow gourmet mushrooms too, that's where I have had most of my experience in large scale cultivation. What kind of oysters are you growing haze?

Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/22/16 02:00 PM)

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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23466195 - 07/22/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Regular oysters I cloned from the store. I also have pioppino which I grew once but fucked it up. The pioppinos are fucking beautiful when grown in high FAE. I don't have any edibles going atm, I made an oyster laundry basket ~3 weeks ago and had to trash it in less than a week. The tub that it was colonizing in was easily 90F, it was probably more at the core seeing as the laundry basket was filled with about a foot of straw. I had to remove the moldy straw by hand and it was literally warm as piss. It was uncomfortable to touch to be honest.

I'm waiting for summer to pass before I gear up my edible grows again. I really want to give this pioppino culture a good chance this time around.

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #23466223 - 07/22/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
shroomery is without a doubt the most comprehensive mycology forum on the net, and i could spend a lifetime reading and learning from the resources on here. But bear in mind, a thread or tek is a way from a vetted, peer-reviewed publication. random-hippie-reviewed is not the same as mycologist reviewed.




Is this a joke? I'd love to hear more about how TMC was peer reviewed before release.. And what makes a mycologist a random-hippie once he logs on to the internet?



As far as gourmet mushroom cultivation goes Stamets book GGMM is probably the best, the only thing it lacks is specific techniques for cloning, culturing and making slants in which it refers you to TMC for those things, and bear in mind TMC is still used as a text book in mycology classes still, you can rent it as a text book from Amazon, that doesn't really mean much though, I agree it's way too outdated to be used as a text book, but as far as techniques go all of the ones we still use are based off of TMC and GGMM, cloning, agar work, and spawn production, and then for gourmet mushrooms GGMM is golden for sterilized sawdust, straw, and compost, but is definitely not useful for cubes.
Something I found interesting is that on the Aloha Culture Bank website they claim they use RR's videos for training their lab technicians.

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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23466247 - 07/22/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Regular oysters I cloned from the store. I also have pioppino which I grew once but fucked it up. The pioppinos are fucking beautiful when grown in high FAE. I don't have any edibles going atm, I made an oyster laundry basket ~3 weeks ago and had to trash it in less than a week. The tub that it was colonizing in was easily 90F, it was probably more at the core seeing as the laundry basket was filled with about a foot of straw. I had to remove the moldy straw by hand and it was literally warm as piss. It was uncomfortable to touch to be honest.

I'm waiting for summer to pass before I gear up my edible grows again. I really want to give this pioppino culture a good chance this time around.




Summer fucking sucks, I run Amycel 3014 in the summer, it's a brown oyster that favors warmer temps, but I like cold weather strains better, and just cold weather mushrooms in general. Never done piopino but really want to, I hear they are delicious.
Never done the laundry basket, I just do sawdust because I never got a straw rig together.
BTW sorry, I dont want to jack this thread, Im new here and I don't want to break the rules.

Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/22/16 02:26 PM)

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OfflineRooster Cogburn
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: mupetmower]
    #23466304 - 07/22/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)


Quote:

mupetmower said:
because some of these "random hippies" here, who make the teks, and/or test those said teks definitely havent grown way more psychedelic mushrooms than almost any "real" mycologist out there.... hope you can sense the enormous load of sarcasm.

sure, there are teks made by noobs, that dont work very well.. but there are also up-to-date, tried-and-true teks here, made by those "random hippies".



I agree the info on here is priceless, but all of the same tried and true "teks" are being used by the commercial spawn and mushroom industry right now by real mycologists growing millions of pounds a year in a multi million dollar industry, TMC was originally written to reveal the trade secrets that commercial cultivators held close for so long.
Stamets has grown a shit ton of cubensis, more than we will ever know, approved and funded by grants none the less.

Edited by Rooster Cogburn (07/22/16 02:39 PM)

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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: Rooster Cogburn]
    #23466422 - 07/22/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

there's absolutely nothing in TMC or GGMM that isnt covered on shroomery.org
and in addition we add info and noticable tendences here on a daily basis, no book can do that.
thats why shroomery > everything else IMO!

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #23466815 - 07/22/16 05:26 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I have more respect for pasty, cron, muda for example than I do of Paul when it comes to psychedelic mushroom cultivation. Specifically cultivation. Maybe Paul can out biology talk us but he certainly can't out grow us when it comes to cubes. He would be reading the new good teks too

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23466964 - 07/22/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mupetmower said:
because some of these "random hippies" here, who make the teks, and/or test those said teks definitely havent grown way more psychedelic mushrooms than almost any "real" mycologist out there.... hope you can sense the enormous load of sarcasm.

sure, there are teks made by noobs, that dont work very well.. but there are also up-to-date, tried-and-true teks here, made by those "random hippies".




that is exactly why i said "shroomery is without a doubt the most comprehensive mycology forum on the net, and i could spend a lifetime reading and learning from the resources on here." Nothing compares. my point was that anyone can post to the shroomery, whereas not just anyone is Paul Stamets or RR. this is a point about humility and perspective, not saying anything negative about hippies or their randomness

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
shroomery is without a doubt the most comprehensive mycology forum on the net, and i could spend a lifetime reading and learning from the resources on here. But bear in mind, a thread or tek is a way from a vetted, peer-reviewed publication. random-hippie-reviewed is not the same as mycologist reviewed.




Is this a joke? I'd love to hear more about how TMC was peer reviewed before release.. And what makes a mycologist a random-hippie once he logs on to the internet?




im starting to think you dont know what a joke is because you ask people that a lot lol :smile:

TMC has absolutely been reviewed, revised, expounded, criticized, republished, etc, all in an academic seting, all of which constitute peer review. i dont know where you got "before release" from but it wasnt me. and mycology is an actual academic field of study, with phds and gov grants who spend their lives researching and publishing peer reviewed studies on mycology.

just because someone has a shroomery account and knows how to grow cubensis doesnt make them a mycologist on the same level with people like Stamets and countless other academic researchers who devote their lives to the topic, thats just silly/small-minded/arrogant

you are really trying hard to find an argument here when there isnt one, at least not without putting words in someones mouth or misinterpreting what they said

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
I have more respect for pasty, cron, muda for example than I do of Paul when it comes to psychedelic mushroom cultivation. Specifically cultivation. Maybe Paul can out biology talk us but he certainly can't out grow us when it comes to cubes. He would be reading the new good teks too




lol im sure Stamets does read on here, he probably takes advantage of every resource at his disposal to learn about mycology, he is smart like that :smile: and i am sure all the people you listed have immense respect for him.

To argue over one personality vs another really misses the point. So does comparing a 30 yr old groundbreaking book that revealed trade secrets to the masses to a modern forum where people discuss and share ideas and modern techniques (plus a whole lot of bs).

The point is that the principles of mycology that stamets and other academics study are quite relevant to what we discuss here on the shroomery: we could all learn a lot from stamets and other academics. Of course if you try to apply his wood techs to cubensis it wont work well but that isnt because he is old, its because you didnt read carefully enough to catch where he explains that not all species like the same substrates (ie wood-lovers vs manure-lovers)

again, i really dont think there is an argument to be had here, at least not without twisting, misinterpreting, or just not reading


--------------------

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Edited by c10h12n2o (07/22/16 06:12 PM)

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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23466977 - 07/22/16 06:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
just because someone has a shroomery account and knows how to grow cubensis doesnt make them a mycologist on the same level with people like Stamets and countless other academic researchers who devote their lives to the topic, thats just silly/small-minded/arrogant




No, I'm saying that said mycologists have shroomery accounts. Why do they suddenly become a "random hippie" when they log on?
And you must know how few studies are actually done on cubensis or other actives, most stuff we get taught about stuff like vert or mycogone comes from universities that publish stuff on agaricus production.

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Re: Strain Isolations on Agar, Pics and Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23466982 - 07/22/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Have you ever seen his grow rooms? They are fucking nuts.

What "teks" do you think he would be looking into or unaware of?

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