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 bloodwater
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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 To clone or to islotate. 
#23465645 - 07/22/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Have multispore dishes. Some where used to go to grain to make my first tub.
I still have more dishes.
Now the question is do I want to Islote from dishes or to clone from fruit.
Trying to get an answer on this. Both seem good
Isolation from spores
+You get one isolate
+young genetics
+same results every time
-might not fruit
-could be bad yielding, low potency, looks funny
Cloning from bulk
+can get better fruits due to more than 1 isolate
-older genetics so more prone to mutations and failure
-results can vary
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 CosmoKramer
The Assman
Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: bloodwater]
#23465812 - 07/22/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Can't go wrong with doing both if you have extra dishes to spare.
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"Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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bloodwater
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23465839 - 07/22/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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True that, true that
Just don't want to waste my time.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up
 
Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23465845 - 07/22/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Isolation takes a LONG time and lots of transfers, just clone a pin that starts growing on your agar plates after 3-4 weeks.
clones arent more prone to mutations or failure in any way, so just forget about that.
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bloodwater
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: spacechildo]
#23465855 - 07/22/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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It is older gentics, so wouldn't it be more prone?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: bloodwater]
#23465859 - 07/22/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bloodwater said:
to make my first tub.
Because of this, I will say stick to clones.
Also, you don't seem to know enough about these to fully commit to an isolation project. An isolation project can take months, you can easily burn through 500 petri dishes doing it. An isolate has the ability to be better than a clone because it is only 1 strain. Such isolates are hard to get, there's a lot of trial, error and repeat. When isolating, you need to end up with a bunch of isolates to get something worthwhile, still probably not enough to get something that will beat a very good clone.
Clones can be stabilized a bit by doing isolation to get rid of the multiple strains that weren't compatabile for anastomosis. When you do this, results will still vary but to a lesser, more predictable degree. It's true, a clone will not last as long as an isolate but it will still last years if taken care of properly. If you make multiple slants right after taking a clone, you're set for a pretty long time.
When you do decide to go for isolation, keep it as a side project. Keep growing whatever it is that interests you in the meantime. As I said, it takes a while to go from spores to an isolate, it even takes a considerable amount of time and effort to test every isolate you get and compare to see which is best. In the end, you have no guarantee that you isolate will be a killer, you might easily end up having better clones, causing you to start from scratch.
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller
Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 609
Loc: out there
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23465862 - 07/22/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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To get a true isolate requires a lot of work. You'll go through 100s of plates to get one you want to keep because you have to transfer till you get sectoring then transfer each sector to a new plate and continue to do so till you have no more sectoring and then each isolate must be tested and hopefully one of the many sectors you'll have will have all the characteristics you want.
Not saying not to undertake the journey, just want you to know what you getting into. A clone is a much faster way to get decent results with some variability as the genetic pool is much smaller, but still a pool. Like Cosmo said, I would (and am) do(ing) both. Work on isolation as a side project, as it will basically just be doing transfers every so often and in the meantime.. You have your first grow going so select some good looking clone candidates and get those on plates to work with to produce with.
Edit:damn, supa beat me to it.
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 Highwalker 
Edited by lukehighwalker710 (07/22/16 12:19 PM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up
Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: bloodwater]
#23465872 - 07/22/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bloodwater said:
It is older gentics, so wouldn't it be more prone?
no its still very young genetics because you clone pins and not mature mushrooms.
a pin from a plate hasnt done much cell divisions at all.
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bloodwater
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Well better rephrase that. This is my first tub in a few years.
I have gotten my own isolates down in the past but never fruited them. By than I scrapped the projects and went on with life.
I think I will need up attempting isolates a long side clones.
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bloodwater
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: spacechildo]
#23465896 - 07/22/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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[quote=spacechildo]no its still very young genetics because you clone pins and not mature mushrooms.
a pin from a plate hasnt done much cell divisions at all.
well wouldn't I want to let the mushroom grow out to see the end result and clone from the base of the mushroom inside?
Edited by bloodwater (07/22/16 12:31 PM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: spacechildo]
#23465900 - 07/22/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Even cloning mature shrooms won't cause mutations. What you call mutations is actually the aging of the culture, commonly known as senescene. Once you take a clone, you slant it, optionally you isolate it and then you test it. If it is crap, empty the slant but if it's good, treat that slant like gold.
A slant will barely age at all and it takes a lot of wedges to totally use it up. Every wedge can inoculate a plate, that plate can inoculate hundreds of plates, each plate can inoculate multiple jars. You get my drift. When your slant is almost finished, take another wedge, put it on agar, see if it's clean and slant it again. If you do this, the 2nd slant will still be a ways away from senescening and not too much older than your first clone transfer.
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller
Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 609
Loc: out there
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: bloodwater]
#23465905 - 07/22/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bloodwater said:
well wouldn't I want to let the mushroom grow out to see the end result and clone from the base of the mushroom inside?
He said to clone a pin that grows in vitro on agar.
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Highwalker
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: bloodwater]
#23465908 - 07/22/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bloodwater said:
[quote/]no its still very young genetics because you clone pins and not mature mushrooms.
a pin from a plate hasnt done much cell divisions at all.
well wouldn't I want to let the mushroom grow out to see the end result and clone from the base of the mushroom inside?
I prefer this, invitro clones are a little less predictable. That said, people still get killer clones from invitro pins and it's not uncommon to get a culture that is better than your average MS grow.
Invitro clones have their own desirable traits. They are fast to get, young and they have already shown you that they can pin. Cloning from mature fruits will give you a higher probability of getting a tub full of your favourited mushroom that you originally cloned.
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Mycologist217
Frank's Disciple
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 2,425
Loc: Man of the Moon
Last seen: 20 days, 2 hours
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I recommend doing an an MS grow from afar inoculation, taking a clone from a mature fruit, then if you want you can isolate a single strain out of that clone that is guaranteed to have fruiting genetics....that's how I did my isolate.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up
Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
lukehighwalker710 said:
Quote:
bloodwater said:
well wouldn't I want to let the mushroom grow out to see the end result and clone from the base of the mushroom inside?
He said to clone a pin that grows in vitro on agar.
yeah you clone pins so you cant see the final outcome but clusters, fat first pins etc are good candidates but so are usually invitro clones on agar. so you can do both ways, yeah, I just recommended 1 over the other.
You still have to test your clone to see how it performs, get to know what it likes and how it behaves in different situations.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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It's not a true isolate though, so it's not what OP is referring to. Isolating a clone will make it more stable however so it's worth doing. I would still refer to an isolated clone as a clone though.
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Pastywhyte 
Say hello to my little friend
Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,842
Loc: Canada 
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Don't forget that invitro pins often mean they can grow with shit FAE and little water or nutes. Once you get them on a nutrition and water rich sub in decent FAE they often really go nuts. My best clones are all from invitro pins and I have yet to see anyone throw up an isolate that can compete with my high producers pound for pound.
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bloodwater
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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"invitro pins"
trying to find what this is now. Search function just has people talking about them.
Are they just your first few pins?
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Mycologist217
Frank's Disciple
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 2,425
Loc: Man of the Moon
Last seen: 20 days, 2 hours
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23465927 - 07/22/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Don't forget that invitro pins often mean they can grow with shit FAE and little water or nutes. Once you get them on a nutrition and water rich sub in decent FAE they often really go nuts. My best clones are all from invitro pins and I have yet to see anyone throw up an isolate that can compete with my high producers pound for pound.
We'll see about that in a few weeks 
--------------------
My LC Manual (With custom LC lid Tek) ~~ Required Mycology Supplies ~~ Agar Work Videos ~~ L G M
AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE
Check out my Retail Gourmet Mushroom Farm! Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up
Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: To clone or to islotate. [Re: bloodwater]
#23465943 - 07/22/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bloodwater said:
"invitro pins"
trying to find what this is now. Search function just has people talking about them.
Are they just your first few pins?
its pins that form before you fruited your sub, invitro means "in the glass",
but here we refer to pins that start on your agar plate a few weeks after full colonization.
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