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OfflinePhred
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Facts are stubborn things
    #2346018 - 02/17/04 03:57 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Thomas Sowell is a brilliant economist, and he writes a damned fine op-ed column as well. Though his main field is economics, his columns cover a broad spectrum of topics. I could link literally a hundred worth reading, but this one is as good a starting place as any --
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/printts20040217.shtml

A brief taste:

"Those who are politically correct may try to claim that these are all 'stereotypes' or 'perceptions' but hard data show the best selling beers in America to be those created by people of German ancestry. It is the same story on the other side of the world, where China's famed Tsingtao beer was also created by Germans."


"Recognizing the equal humanity of all peoples, and a need to treat everyone with decency and compassion, is very different from insisting on a dogma that their performances are all equal."


"It is not just a few readers but government agencies and the highest courts in the land that dogmatize against any recognition of differences in behavior or performances among groups. Statistical differences in outcomes automatically fall under suspicion of discrimination, as if the groups themselves could not possibly be any different in behavior or performance."




pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: Phred]
    #2346038 - 02/17/04 04:04 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I was just rummaging through my Note Pad file and came across a few quotes from Sowell --

-- People are not stupid. There are just certain things that they do not think about. And if you don't think about those things, then it doesn't matter whether you are a genius or a moron.

-- This is analogous to a thief blaming their victim for the crime, or the rapist blaming their victim. Irresponsible behavior begins and ends with the individual. Being tempted is not a justified cause of action.

-- We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.

-- As long as human beings are imperfect, there will always be arguments for extending the power of government to deal with these imperfections. The only logical stopping place is totalitarianism - unless we realize that tolerating imperfections is the price of freedom.

-- It is amazing how many people act as if the right to free speech includes the right to be free of criticism for what you say - which means that other people should not have the same right to free speech that they claim for themselves.

-- The people I feel sorry for are those who insist on continuing to do what they have always done but want the results to be different from what they have always been.

-- Liberals' attempts to create a left-wing Rush Limbaugh demonstrate their basic misconception of the world. The Rush Limbaugh program was not created by big government, big business, or big media. It was one of those spontaneous things that happens in the real world of individual initiative that liberals are so out of touch with - and so hostile to.

-- People who complain about a "Eurocentric" view of the world have the most Eurocentric view of human evils. Do they know - or care - that freed blacks had begun to serve in the Congress of the United States while white slaves were still being bought and sold in the Ottoman Empire?

-- Those who want to take our money and gain power over us have discovered the magic formula: Get us envious or angry at others and we will surrender, in installments, not only our money but our freedom. The most successful dictators of the 20th century - Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao - all used this formula and now class warfare politicians here are doing the same.



pinky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: Phred]
    #2346050 - 02/17/04 04:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I have to agree here. Some people get so caught up in all the PC bullshit that they are willing to overlook facts, rather than looking at the world as it is and trying to figure out why it is that way.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: Phred]
    #2346225 - 02/17/04 04:59 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Sowell is brilliant.

Of course now some idiot will come along and accuse me of kissing both your and his ass. Weak insults from weaker minds.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2346278 - 02/17/04 05:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Touchy arent we?


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: silversoul7]
    #2346293 - 02/17/04 05:14 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I have to agree here.  Some people get so caught up in all the PC bullshit that they are willing to overlook facts, rather than looking at the world as it is and trying to figure out why it is that way.




you'd never do that tho, right :smile:


Excellent article pinky, shrooms all around!


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: GazzBut]
    #2346296 - 02/17/04 05:15 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Touchy arent we?



Actually.... no.

I just found your comment to be both moronic, and quite frankly of about the same level of maturity as one of your more pathetic countrymen.

Or to be more succinct.... beneath you.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2346301 - 02/17/04 05:17 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Why would it be beneath the kind of person who blindly believes any news story that fits their world view?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: GazzBut]
    #2346310 - 02/17/04 05:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Two different behaviors. Apples and oranges.

People can believe whatever stuff they wish and still not act likes twits.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2346324 - 02/17/04 05:22 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

whatever..


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2346343 - 02/17/04 05:27 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I have to agree here.  Some people get so caught up in all the PC bullshit that they are willing to overlook facts, rather than looking at the world as it is and trying to figure out why it is that way.




you'd never do that tho, right :smile:



Nope


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: silversoul7]
    #2346355 - 02/17/04 05:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I have to agree here.  Some people get so caught up in all the PC bullshit that they are willing to overlook facts, rather than looking at the world as it is and trying to figure out why it is that way.




you'd never do that tho, right :smile:



Nope




Gonna have to call bullshit on this one :smile: I don't wanna address it in public tho, but you definatly, DEFINATLY, are a PC-brainwashed person :-) No offense, happens to the best of us, who can resist indoctrination, that is why religion still exists.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2346365 - 02/17/04 05:33 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

No, not really. Not as much as you think, anyway. I just don't happen to buy into the pseudoscience about races being intellectually inferior that you posted under your previous username.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: silversoul7]
    #2346413 - 02/17/04 05:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No, not really. Not as much as you think, anyway. I just don't happen to buy into the pseudoscience about races being intellectually inferior that you posted under your previous username.




What a co-incidence that this is exactly what I was talking about ;-)


Let me ask you this, is their any amount of proof that could ever prove that races are "DIFFERENT" (again, I'm not saying inferior or superior). IF you say no, it's due to your closed mind. It's just that simple. It's not even a matter of this particular issue, if you feel strongly about an issue and you don't think that anyone could ever prove you wrong, then you are showing your emotional ego-based attachment to those thoughts and your own ignorance.


On a related note, find me any examples of thriving black countries in Africa yet? Haiti is doing great in this hemisphere!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2346611 - 02/17/04 06:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I would agree that races are different in that they have different physical features, most notably skin color. Also, some races are more susceptible to certain diseases than others. However, the biological differences basically end there. Most other differences are attributable to ethnic or cultural differences.


--------------------


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: silversoul7]
    #2346640 - 02/17/04 06:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I would agree that races are different in that they have different physical features, most notably skin color. Also, some races are more susceptible to certain diseases than others. However, the biological differences basically end there. Most other differences are attributable to ethnic or cultural differences.




Fact: Blacks have not contributed as many inventions as whites have throughout history.

fact: Blacks score worse than whites (and other races) on standardized tests.

fact: Very few, if any, nations that are predominatly black are "functioning" nations. They are just macrocosms of the microcosm of negroid tribal behavior.

I could go on for hours, but I've proved already that fact isn't what you base your decision on, it's emotion.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2346686 - 02/17/04 06:33 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fact: Blacks have not contributed as many inventions as whites have throughout history.



Source?

Quote:

fact: Blacks score worse than whites (and other races) on standardized tests.




Which are made by white people. Also, this can be explained by the high rate of illegitimacy among blacks.

Quote:

fact: Very few, if any, nations that are predominatly black are "functioning" nations. They are just macrocosms of the microcosm of negroid tribal behavior.



South Africa seems to be doing rather nicely since they got rid of apartheid and elected Nelson Mandela. Also, the way most of those African nations are is largely due to the borders set up by European colonialists.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2346825 - 02/17/04 06:58 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

black people are not biologically different enough from white people for genetics to be the causal factor in such differences between blacks and whites. that is a fact. the differences are extremely superficial. it has more to do with circumstance and culture, as is evidenced pretty clearly when you meet a black person adopted at a very young age to a white family.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2348151 - 02/18/04 01:14 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I would agree that races are different in that they have different physical features, most notably skin color. Also, some races are more susceptible to certain diseases than others. However, the biological differences basically end there. Most other differences are attributable to ethnic or cultural differences.




Fact: Blacks have not contributed as many inventions as whites have throughout history.

fact: Blacks score worse than whites (and other races) on standardized tests.

fact: Very few, if any, nations that are predominatly black are "functioning" nations. They are just macrocosms of the microcosm of negroid tribal behavior.

I could go on for hours, but I've proved already that fact isn't what you base your decision on, it's emotion.




I see that lysergic/johnnyrespect/enimapyrt is back.

Just can't resist the temptation to trash black people no matter which screen name you use, can you?

By the way, it's spelled "predominantly" not "predominatly." That's your last free English lesson, Superior White Boy. Next one's going to cost you. Actually, I know quite a few black people whose English is better than yours: francophone Africans who learned it as a third language.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Facts are stubborn things [Re: ]
    #2348869 - 02/18/04 07:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

mushmaster writes:

black people are not biologically different enough from white people for genetics to be the causal factor in such differences between blacks and whites. that is a fact.

No, it is not a fact, it is a supposition.

It is a fact that there are physiological differences. Athletic performances demonstrate this very clearly. Whether or not there are intellectual differences remains undecided. There have been several studies indicating there are such differences, and not all of those studies have (as yet) been conclusively refuted. In my opinion, the jury is still out on that one. Until we have sufficient data culled from "culture-free" studies -- i.e. carried out on a statistically significant population of "white" or asian infants adopted into black families and vice versa -- it is impossible to say with any certainty one way or the other.

But to dismiss the possibility out of one's innate personal prejudice -- especially in the face of the indisputable physiological differences -- is incorrect, as Sowell notes.

Facts are stubborn things.

pinky



p.s. Note that I do not say some races are intellectually inferior to others. I don't have the data to support a conclusion one way or the other.


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