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Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: ergoticmandala]
#23464302 - 07/21/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's a great idea! I use a ecig daily. All day. hahahah they sell nicotine gum to "quit smoking" I want to use it just to get my nicotine buzz until I get off work. That's great.. hahhhahah
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,564
Loc: Utah
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: Moonshoe]
#23464417 - 07/21/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Recent research has shown that not only is nicotine itself not very harmful (the cancer is caused by the tobacco and additives not the nicotine ) apparently nicotine is also not as addictive As we thought, and additives are why tobacco is so addictive .
I dunno, I've been on a vape for a while, and while cigarettes produce faaar more effects (probably thanks to the MAOIs), the withdrawal for me is just as bad with vape as it is with cigarettes. I get all the classic withdrawal symptoms: extreme anxiety, irritability, exhaustion, intense cravings, anger, mood swings, paranoia, etc.
YMMV, but pure nicotine for me is just as addictive even though it doesn't produce nearly as many effects.
That makes me wonder if you could isolate the MAOIs in cigarettes and then put them into something less dangerous, because whatever adds those extra effects to cigarettes is pretty terrific.
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ergoticmandala



Registered: 06/03/15
Posts: 1,256
Last seen: 4 years, 28 days
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: nooneman]
#23466082 - 07/22/16 01:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
That makes me wonder if you could isolate the MAOIs in cigarettes and then put them into something less dangerous, because whatever adds those extra effects to cigarettes is pretty terrific.
or u could just smoke n. rustica sparingly like one would would with potent weed
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do you know what the logo is inside the skull?
no, what is it?
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: nooneman]
#23466310 - 07/22/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Recent research has shown that not only is nicotine itself not very harmful (the cancer is caused by the tobacco and additives not the nicotine ) apparently nicotine is also not as addictive As we thought, and additives are why tobacco is so addictive .
I dunno, I've been on a vape for a while, and while cigarettes produce faaar more effects (probably thanks to the MAOIs), the withdrawal for me is just as bad with vape as it is with cigarettes. I get all the classic withdrawal symptoms: extreme anxiety, irritability, exhaustion, intense cravings, anger, mood swings, paranoia, etc.
YMMV, but pure nicotine for me is just as addictive even though it doesn't produce nearly as many effects.
That makes me wonder if you could isolate the MAOIs in cigarettes and then put them into something less dangerous, because whatever adds those extra effects to cigarettes is pretty terrific.
You can actually
It's called a NET extraction
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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Adolin




Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#23466379 - 07/22/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nicotine by itself doesnt do anything for me. might be worth checking out if your a tobacco virgin though
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: Adolin]
#23466445 - 07/22/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I still don't understand why anyone who doesn't smoke and knows smokers and can clearly see how their emotions are dependent upon a chemical coping mechanism would think it is a good idea to develop a nicotine habit.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23466544 - 07/22/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seriously. It's a topsy turvy world alright.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23466740 - 07/22/16 05:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: I still don't understand why anyone who doesn't smoke and knows smokers and can clearly see how their emotions are dependent upon a chemical coping mechanism would think it is a good idea to develop a nicotine habit.
It's because one can never truly understand what one has never been through, kinda the same reason why people who have never taken psychedelics will ever truly understand what it's like to trip, they just know what they have heard, what others have told them.. Not exactly the same thing but it's essentially a similar concept
The vast majority of people hooked on nicotine started at a very young age, and as a result the habit becomes deeply ingrained in their subconscious mind, basically becoming a part of their personality
Sounds crappy when it's laid out like that but I happen to enjoy the effects of nicotine, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a curse unless I didn't enjoy it, which I didn't when I was smoking cigarettes full-time but vaping is a totally different ballpark
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#23466761 - 07/22/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you enjoy it when you don't have any ejuice or your battery is dead?
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Adolin




Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23467078 - 07/22/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: I still don't understand why anyone who doesn't smoke and knows smokers and can clearly see how their emotions are dependent upon a chemical coping mechanism would think it is a good idea to develop a nicotine habit.
same could be said about booze, coffee, or weed for that matter. alot of people get miserable without them. and going without coffee when you're used to having it every day can cause some seriously bad headaches. alcohol withdrawls can kill you.
Edited by Adolin (07/22/16 06:49 PM)
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23467146 - 07/22/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Do you enjoy it when you don't have any ejuice or your battery is dead?
Neither of those things ever happen, i have enough juicemaking supplies to last me many more months but sometimes when I'm absorbed in a book I'll forget to hit the vape for hours at a time so my batteries usually last 2-3 days each pair, I charge them in cycles so when one's worn out there's another fresh pair ready to go in
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: Adolin]
#23467244 - 07/22/16 07:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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That isn't a valid argument for using nicotine. It actually validates not using it nor alcohol, weed, or caffeine.
If you are used to caffeine the headaches are clearly a sign of withdrawal and a reason to never start using it in the first place. The headaches go away after a couple days, so once you get a headache from not having your coffee that should be enough to let you know it is bad for you. Then eventually your energy levels get back to their natural levels and you actually feel better instead of boost-crash cycles.
I personally have a problem with caffeine, and once I start using it I have trouble stopping. But I find my emotional state is better when I don't use it. I'm at the point where I don't drink soda or energy drinks, but I almost daily have an energy shot and almost every day I feel the crash and while manageable it's not a good feeling. I had cut caffeine out of my life for a year and I was overall happier and could handle stressful situations better.
Ask any long-term consumer of nicotine if it is worth it. LMK if you find someone who says it is other than an ejuice dealer/headshop employee or someone who rationalizes their addiction by saying "But vaping isn't as harmful to my lungs as smoking" while they ignore the emotional/spiritual bondage they are in.
Most vapers will tell you about how they use it to help QUIT smoking.
Quote:
Neither of those things ever happen, i have enough juicemaking supplies to last me many more months but sometimes when I'm absorbed in a book I'll forget to hit the vape for hours at a time so my batteries usually last 2-3 days each pair, I charge them in cycles so when one's worn out there's another fresh pair ready to go in
So in other words, you ALWAYS have nicotine.
And why do you cycle the batteries? Did you start off cycling batteries or did you get sick of your battery dying and having to wait to hit your vape? Did you get angry when your battery was dead and you wanted to vape?
Since you are a shroomerite I presume you're more intelligent than most so you probably just strategized and bought extra batteries when you got your mod. (Being serious, not sassy).
How do you feel if you go out and forget your ecig at home?
Nicotine withdrawal is fucking awful and not worth the meager effects it has AT ALL and the cravings can come out of nowhere weeks after quitting (I hear it can even pop up years later, if only for a fleeting moment).
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#23467290 - 07/22/16 07:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OhMrJohnson said:
Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: I still don't understand why anyone who doesn't smoke and knows smokers and can clearly see how their emotions are dependent upon a chemical coping mechanism would think it is a good idea to develop a nicotine habit.
It's because one can never truly understand what one has never been through, kinda the same reason why people who have never taken psychedelics will ever truly understand what it's like to trip, they just know what they have heard, what others have told them.. Not exactly the same thing but it's essentially a similar concept
The vast majority of people hooked on nicotine started at a very young age, and as a result the habit becomes deeply ingrained in their subconscious mind, basically becoming a part of their personality
Sounds crappy when it's laid out like that but I happen to enjoy the effects of nicotine, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a curse unless I didn't enjoy it, which I didn't when I was smoking cigarettes full-time but vaping is a totally different ballpark
I think if you asked most users of psychedelics if they recommend mushrooms they'll say yes. I think if you asked most smokers if they recommend smoking and they'll probably say no it's not worth it. But I understand the curiosity aspect. I personally hated when my mom smoked around me so I never messed with cigarettes, but I chain-smoked blunts (seriously, like 10-15 a day) and I used an ecig and dab pen to help me stop that and then quit the ecig.
It was only like 3-4 days of anxiety but it was NOT pleasant and not worth the high the nicotine provided. I actually enjoy weed much more now without nicotine(blunts or ecig) and I turn down blunts now when passed so I don't get that hook in me.
I can actually feel the weed high instead of the nicotine muddling it and then wearing off in 10-15 minutes making me feel like I want to smoke more weed when I actually just wanted more nicotine.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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PatrickKn



Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: OhMrJohnson] 1
#23467646 - 07/22/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OhMrJohnson said:
Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Do you enjoy it when you don't have any ejuice or your battery is dead?
Neither of those things ever happen,
Good answer.
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Still_tripping
Lord yes!


Registered: 10/07/15
Posts: 747
Loc: A small hot country
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23475433 - 07/25/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Nicotine withdrawal is fucking awful and not worth the meager effects it has AT ALL and the cravings can come out of nowhere weeks after quitting (I hear it can even pop up years later, if only for a fleeting moment).
Why do you say that as I've never found nicotine withdrawal as much more than a nuisance as opposed to a real drug addicted withdrawal. A bit of anxiety for a couple of days is about all. Not the same as quitting cigarettes where that bit of nuisance is compounded with a good deal more anxiety from not smoking. Ask any smoker whether the gum or patches do much for their quitting effort. What the vape does is that replaces the cig held in the hand and allows for all the traditional ceremony normally surrounding smoking a cigarette. That's also why people quitting try and stay busy because the moment they stop those cravings pop up to have a smoke, and after the first 2 or 3 days those cravings have nothing to do with nicotine withdrawal. In fact the biggest problem is that smoking is usually a reward system and years later you will still continue to look for those rewards. A vape can simply replace that.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23475589 - 07/25/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: That isn't a valid argument for using nicotine. It actually validates not using it nor alcohol, weed, or caffeine.
If you are used to caffeine the headaches are clearly a sign of withdrawal and a reason to never start using it in the first place. The headaches go away after a couple days, so once you get a headache from not having your coffee that should be enough to let you know it is bad for you. Then eventually your energy levels get back to their natural levels and you actually feel better instead of boost-crash cycles.
I personally have a problem with caffeine, and once I start using it I have trouble stopping. But I find my emotional state is better when I don't use it. I'm at the point where I don't drink soda or energy drinks, but I almost daily have an energy shot and almost every day I feel the crash and while manageable it's not a good feeling. I had cut caffeine out of my life for a year and I was overall happier and could handle stressful situations better.
Ask any long-term consumer of nicotine if it is worth it. LMK if you find someone who says it is other than an ejuice dealer/headshop employee or someone who rationalizes their addiction by saying "But vaping isn't as harmful to my lungs as smoking" while they ignore the emotional/spiritual bondage they are in.
Most vapers will tell you about how they use it to help QUIT smoking.
Show me any proof that nicotine in the minute quantities found in Ecigs is harmful.
Nicotine is not what causes cancer in cigarettes. That would be all the tar, carbon monoxide, benzene, etc.
Here is over 250 peer reviewed studies on nicotine - http://examine.com/supplements/Nicotine FDA study of the risks and benefits of long term nicotine use - http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/NewsEvents/UCM232335.pdf 10 health benefits of nicotine - http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2014/11/10-benefits-of-nicotine.html Nicotine safety in the context of E-cig use - http://ecigarettereviewed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Nicotine-safety-in-the-context-of-e-cigarette-use-and-tobacco-dependence-Jacques-Le-Houezec-E-Cigarette-Summit.pdf Study showing nicotine is helpful in cognitive enhancement and in Parkinson's, schizophrenia and other neurological diseases - http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix
Yes, you read that right. There are actual real, tangible, scientifically proven health benefits to nicotine. Now please show some evidence it's that harmful when used by itself, isolated from all the carcinogens of cigarettes.
I'm not saying everyone should be taking nicotine. I just take opposition to your statement. I don't think you've done much research on the subject.
Quote:
Ask any long-term consumer of nicotine if it is worth it.
Long term user here. Worth it. My goal was to go to 0mg of nicotine. I did that, wasn't addicted anymore, but decided I like the cognitive effects I get from nicotine. So now I'm at 1.5mg (abysmally low, but enough to get effects). I can't speak for anyone else.. but I enjoy the benefits I get from nicotine.
If you can show me some evidence that is super ultra harmful for me, maybe I'll reconsider. But I'll sooner take the words of countless peer-reviewed research studies than some random words on a message board.
I smoked cigarettes for 18 years. I was killing myself with them. I didn't recommend smoking to anyone. I started vaping and quit cigarettes completely. My health improved significantly in the months following. I recommend vaping to all smokers who are looking to quit because it is hands down the easiest way to do it and without a single doubt at least 50x less harmful than cigarette smoking. No one is saying vaping is "healthy" but it sure as fuck is a much safer alternative. And yeah like I mentioned above, there's not really any evidence to support the idea that nicotine.. by itself.. in small quantities.. is that harmful at all. It's about as "harmful" as caffeine. Probably less.
Anecdotally... I've been heavily addicted to both caffeine and nicotine (nicotine in cigarettes is FAR MORE ADDICTIVE due to addition of MAOIs and other chemicals which multiply the addictive factor) Withdrawing from caffeine after a HEAVY addiction was fucking HELL. Nicotine withdrawal is mild in comparison.
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: Shroomism]
#23475620 - 07/25/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm running 10mg juice with tobacco essence in my RDA at the moment
Shit kicks like a mule with his balls wrapped with duct tape
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#23475636 - 07/25/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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10mg on a dripper holy fuck!
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: Shroomism]
#23475659 - 07/25/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I kinda had to work my way up to it, I have a fuckload of nic solution to use up yet so I figured I'd start making my juice stronger
My friend is used to 3mg and he said when he tried a hit of my 7mg juice it felt like his throat was on fire
I love it nice and strong tho, it is pretty harsh but that makes it less compulsive in a way cuz I only need like 2 hits to satisfy my nic fix and then I'm good for a while
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: do you guys think nicotine gum is bad [Re: Shroomism]
#23475807 - 07/25/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I never said nicotine was physically harmful.
I mean, other than the fact it can kill you if you take too much, but that isn't what we are talking about.
I said it is addictive. And addiction is spiritual bondage. If you aren't addicted to nicotine, why the fuck would you want to be?
It sounds like you're making excuses. If it was worth it then why have the need to work your way down and go through all these steps to quit, only to pick it back up? Sounds like any other addiction- rationalizing use and having a hard time stopping once starting.
The fact is that nicotine causes anxiety when it wears off. It makes those who are addicted to it moody and antsy when they want to hit it but can't, either due to work or waiting on their charge or whatever reason. It makes it harder for them to think strait which amplifies the stress and anxiety they already feel.
IMO anyone who tells themselves the high from nicotine is worth the withdrawal is in denial. I understand there can be a certain social aspect involved as well, and it can seem like a godsend to someone with social anxiety. But in the long term it is counter-productive to socializing without a crutch.
I was hitting an ecig and wax to help ween me off blunts, eventually I stopped the wax and was using just the ecig and had no active caffeine consumption. When I quit the ecig, I felt stress and anxiety that were way more intense than the effects of nicotine. Doing daily routines had me reaching for my ecig at certain moments.
Even posting in this thread has that monkey on my back suggesting I start up my ecig again and it's been almost 2 years. Fuck. that. To suggest to someone who doesn't have a nicotine habit to give it a try is horrible advice.
That isn't to say someone with an addiction to cigarettes shouldn't switch to ecig. Of course they should, and they should ween down to 0mg nicotine and then stop. That's the whole point I'm pretty sure.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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