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OfflineGr0wer
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Straw VS sawdust, observations
    #23458065 - 07/19/16 11:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I just wanted to post some observations I've seen with pasteurized straw vs sawdust or soybean hulls, or any sterile substrate for that matter. With hot water bath pasteurized straw i was seeing bacterial blotch, in the form of dark veins running down the caps, deformed caps and a fishy smell. This was with only 75-80 RH and around 65-70F misting 1-2 times a day for 10 seconds. One of the major things i noticed when i was growing side by side straw vs fuel pellet/soybea hull was that the straw grown clusters were always more soggy and wet than those grown on sterilized sawdust blends. With my sterilized oak/soybean hull substrate im sitting around 86-94% RH and 70-74F (summertime) misting heavy (soaks the mushrooms and all surfaces) every 40 min for 8 seconds and still barely seeing minor bacteria on maybe 1-2/40 bags. So I feel like because you can have a higher RH, and mist more often since there are not as many bacteria's present in the substrate this allows you to have a much better BE than straw since the mushrooms can absorb more external moisture without becoming overly saturated like on the straw. It might have something to do with the straw being able to over absorb the moisture? I honestly don't know the real mechanism behind it but i can vouch that sawdust/soybean hull blends are far superior.


Edited by Gr0wer (07/19/16 11:33 PM)


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23458136 - 07/19/16 11:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23458278 - 07/20/16 01:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Wood for the Win!


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Offlinepoponon
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23458554 - 07/20/16 06:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I wonder if the tree resins have anything to do with the lack of contams. maybe a contributing factor


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: poponon]
    #23458565 - 07/20/16 06:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting stuff! Thanks for the info!


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23458753 - 07/20/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Its more likeley due to less bacteria in the substrate.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23458867 - 07/20/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You are correct Gr0wer.

A cubensis will grow on straw due to all the carbs, woods is almost carbs free (excluding conversion).
Hence the fact that straw will start with contams all the way through, wood, its clean.

Straw is dirty, and very misleading. I don't and won't use it.
Only works for wood lovers because of the fiber.

Cubensis law, if it grows all follows.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23458948 - 07/20/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Im referring to oysters.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23458958 - 07/20/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I know, but what I am saying is straw will grow: mold, bacteria, cubensis, oyster etc.
If a cubensis can grow on something then so can mold, bacteria, oyster.

Give 100% wood to cubensis and grain mold, grain bacteria.
Nothing, not much will happen. Cubensis law.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23459000 - 07/20/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
I know, but what I am saying is straw will grow: mold, bacteria, cubensis, oyster etc.
If a cubensis can grow on something then so can mold, bacteria, oyster.

Give 100% wood to cubensis and grain mold, grain bacteria.
Nothing, not much will happen. Cubensis law.



Dude.  You're crazy :stoned:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23459038 - 07/20/16 09:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Really? not common to know that grain molds, bacteria, can not convert fiber to carbs?

Wood lovers can, because, they are wood lovers.
Its just genetics, nothing new.

Make use of it?


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23459054 - 07/20/16 09:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ive seen tons of wood contaminate. Mold can grow on wood absolutely.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23459071 - 07/20/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Wood trich yes. I did not say its invincible, only said "wood loving", sorry.

And also is that 100% wood or added grain, bran etc?
Essentially wood based BRF tek, hehe.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23459105 - 07/20/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:
Ive seen tons of wood contaminate. Mold can grow on wood absolutely.




Yeah I dare say let a bag of straw sit and a bag of sawdust sit side by side and the sawdust will mold first.  It's a matter of surface area and the straw has a waxy coating.


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OfflineParesthesia
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
    #23459255 - 07/20/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ok idiot question, what about pasteurized sawdust vs straw?  If I use the same spawn ratio will I get similar yields?  I'm nowhere near being able to do sterile work yet...


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Paresthesia]
    #23459295 - 07/20/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I was doing pasterized straw with 10% sawdust and had the same results as with straw. You really cant pasteurize sawdust without inoculating some benifical bacteria like compost, especially if were talkikg about fuel pellets which are fairly clean.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23459420 - 07/20/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I have grown using the Lipa tek of pellets + boiling water ( occasionally added corn gluten meal to supplement), I had very few bags contaminate.. but I guess that wasn't really pasteurization either.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23459496 - 07/20/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:
I was doing pasterized straw with 10% sawdust and had the same results as with straw. You really cant pasteurize sawdust without inoculating some benifical bacteria like compost, especially if were talkikg about fuel pellets which are fairly clean.



Huh?  You're not going to kill bacteria below boiling point so you'll get some bacteria in there regardless.  Not necessarily terrible I found shiitake and oyster don't slow down much.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
    #23459623 - 07/20/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I was just stating pasteruizing sawdust wont work as well as straw. Straw was a living thing and covered in microbes and bacteria, fuel pellets and most sawdust is fairly sterile so pasteruization wont work as well. Ive tried pasteruizing pellets using lipa tek and saw no improvements over plain old lipa tek.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23459743 - 07/20/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i have used sawdust, wood chips, straw and other plant waste. i found that the quality of the straw is very important. any time I used straw from a outside source, straw bale or a bag i get contamination within a few weeks and can only get a few flushes. when i use the straw that I grow as well as the various others substrates ( sunflower stalks, sorghum stalks, corn stalks, etc...) from the farm here i get much better results. The straw logs will go months and still produce with no contamination this way. that's my experience not necessarily absolute fact.

most straw is grown in horrible monoculture conditions and sprayed many times with herbicides, pesticides and fungicides. i personally think this has a huge effect on quality of mushrooms and contamination.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: soil]
    #23459861 - 07/20/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

soil said:


most straw is grown in horrible monoculture conditions and sprayed many times with herbicides, pesticides and fungicides. i personally think this has a huge effect on quality of mushrooms and contamination.




not at all.  it's really just whether or not it was baled for forage or not.  if it got rained on it's only suitable for construction sites or stable bedding.  my straw guy has sold to mushroom farms before so he knows we only can use the nice dry stuff that's not moldy.  he is a conventional farmer.  nobody hardly bales straw near me any more.  there's very little demand for it.  and no labor to stack 40lb bales.  just the 4x4x8ft 1000lb'ers.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
    #23461718 - 07/21/16 06:16 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

So side by side, 100% wood, 100% straw, no grain, no additives.

Which would become bacterial first? And for what reason?


Next thing, if I ran a de-mold heat process, stayed 100% clean, on both subs.

Which would get moldy, and for what reason?


Last question, which types of mold and bacteria grow on 100% wood?

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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23467893 - 07/22/16 11:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Straw, it gets more wet. The sawdust tends to get moldy fast as drake mentioned as well. Green mold are the number 1 contam you will see on sterile wood, at least for me with my experience with lipa and getting started with sterilized sawdust.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23468333 - 07/23/16 05:30 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm maybe its my location, Only ever get trich on uncooked wood pellets.
60°C for 40 minutes is enough to kill mycelium and myc spores.

They add grain products to help bond the wood pellets.
Which means wood pellets are not 100% wood.

I use paper pellets now.


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Offlineworowa
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23469840 - 07/23/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Hmm maybe its my location, Only ever get trich on uncooked wood pellets.
60°C for 40 minutes is enough to kill mycelium and myc spores.

They add grain products to help bond the wood pellets.
Which means wood pellets are not 100% wood.

I use paper pellets now.




Where did you get that info?

Most pellets are pure sawdust, bonded by their own resins under pressure (and heat).
Paper pellets contain traces of non-wood products, such as soy beans.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: worowa]
    #23471462 - 07/24/16 06:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm, maybe im reading too much into it, but here is where I read it.
It says, "Other industrial waste sources" and a few examples.

Later it talks about grain pellets, same machine.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23471601 - 07/24/16 08:01 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Hmm, maybe im reading too much into it, but here is where I read it.
It says, "Other industrial waste sources" and a few examples.

Later it talks about grain pellets, same machine.



It also explicitly says that the lignin glues the wood pellets together when subject to heat and pressure. The grain products are just to help hold together non-wood pellets (for instance, it says there they can be made out of grass).


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: kunino]
    #23471689 - 07/24/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You only use binders in wood pellets on a home scale, the industrial ones are bound by their own polysaccharides.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
    #23472797 - 07/24/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I see, thanks for clearing that up.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23474385 - 07/25/16 03:36 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Where can one get wood pellets in mid summer and why don't people just pasteurization the wood instead of sterile it. What be the point


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: tump]
    #23474536 - 07/25/16 06:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Tractor supply co has them in summer stores, you can check inventory on thier web site.  I was driving around yesterday and came across a small lumber mill that had tons of pecan sawdust, they let me fill a trash bag for free.  There might be a bit of cypress wood in it (ash juniper) so I'll see how it works for me...


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Paresthesia]
    #23475738 - 07/25/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, most places stock fuel pellets seasonally. You might need to plan ahead and stock up for the summer in some locations.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23475850 - 07/25/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:
Yea, most places stock fuel pellets seasonally. You might need to plan ahead and stock up for the summer in some locations.



Unsold stuff just goes back to a regional location here so you can ask a manager to order it.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
    #23475872 - 07/25/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

How much longer do you find 3015 taking from inoculation to fruit on sawdust vs straw?


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: chefjrd]
    #23475935 - 07/25/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe 5 days


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
    #23476607 - 07/25/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

This might be a little off topic but has anyone run walnut sawdust?  I've seen a couple mentions around but nothing concrete.  I've got a few filter bags with 4lb walnut supplemented with 10% bran and 4% gypsum.  They'll be inoculated with 1lb of oyster rye spawn.  Was curious if anyone has seen results good or bad.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23476884 - 07/25/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
This might be a little off topic but has anyone run walnut sawdust?  I've seen a couple mentions around but nothing concrete.  I've got a few filter bags with 4lb walnut supplemented with 10% bran and 4% gypsum.  They'll be inoculated with 1lb of oyster rye spawn.  Was curious if anyone has seen results good or bad.




Walnut contains a compound, juglone, which is quite toxic to plants and insects. It's not terribly harmful to humans, though (it's even used as a food colouring), so I don't really know what effect it would have on fungi.
If you can't find anything definitive on the subject, I would say give it a try, but do it on a small scale first, just it case it does prove toxic to the oyster mycelium.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: kunino]
    #23478141 - 07/26/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the reply, Kunino.  Yeah, I've read the same about juglone and plant/microbe growth inhibition.  The oyster I'm using is a wild clone and the mycelium is super aggressive.  I guess this kind of fits the topic as I'm running the same myc on supplemented straw.  If results are good I'll follow up.  Thanks again!


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23478166 - 07/26/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I would think sawdust from drupes (pecans, peaches, walnuts, mango, etc) would be similar...


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Offlinekunino
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Paresthesia]
    #23479031 - 07/26/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Paresthesia said:
I would think sawdust from drupes (pecans, peaches, walnuts, mango, etc) would be similar...




Pecans are closely related to walnuts and I believe also have juglone in the plant body.
Peaches and mango, though, are not even slightly related to walnuts, and if they do have any toxins then it will be different ones and will be a coincidence. In fact, peaches, and all Prunus genus trees, have trace quantities of cyanide in the wood. They don't, however, seem to have enough to actually inhibit mycelium growth, with the main exception of cherry laurel, which have quite a lot of it (you should be very careful if you ever burn the stuff, least you inhale too much).


Edited by kunino (07/26/16 02:55 PM)


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: kunino]
    #23481455 - 07/27/16 07:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

A small farm near me has grown great oysters on supplemented pecan. They have had mixed results trying other species on it, but that could be for a number of different reasons.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: MorePies]
    #23483555 - 07/27/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ok I'm mixed up.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Paresthesia]
    #23486516 - 07/28/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Here are the walnut bags after 2 days.  There doesn't appear to be any inhibition to the mycelium, in fact, the growth seems normal if not vigorous.  It'll be interesting to see how they fruit.  I'll update as they progress. I have some fruit wood, peach or pear that I'm going to try as well.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23487252 - 07/28/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Fruit wood should be absolutely fine.
Fruit wood is not recommended to use for log culture, because most fruit woods are very hard and dense, so the mycelium has real trouble growing through it. But turning it into sawdust negates this problem.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23490405 - 07/29/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hey Gr0wer, did you notice any differences in the morphology and or flavor of the fruit bodies depending on the substrate?


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23492102 - 07/30/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, the wood ones are darker color, and the caps tend to be more trumpet shaped on the top rather than dome shaped. The fruits are a bit more firm and thicker caps as well. Flavor im not entirely sure as ive never done a comparison.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23496229 - 07/31/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Is this the streaky blotch you were referring to in your original post? 


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23568427 - 08/23/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So far only one walnut bag has fruited though they all have pins.  Here is a pic of the golds on fruit wood.  These were nocd 13 days ago and are ready to fruit. 


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23569373 - 08/23/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I've had similar results as grower with straw vs wood substrates. One thing we have been doing is adding 5-10% alfalfa cubes to the straw and the supplemented straw produces about double the yield, thicker, meatier caps than pure straw. We sterilize the alfalfa pellets, then keep them in the fridge until we need to use them. Good luck growers.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: SpeakSoftly]
    #23605018 - 09/02/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SpeakSoftly said:
I've had similar results as grower with straw vs wood substrates. One thing we have been doing is adding 5-10% alfalfa cubes to the straw and the supplemented straw produces about double the yield, thicker, meatier caps than pure straw. We sterilize the alfalfa pellets, then keep them in the fridge until we need to use them. Good luck growers.



Hey SS, yeah, I too sup with alfalfa cubes...I just pasteurize them in with the straw in a separate bag so I can make sure they get good and mixed in with the straw before spawning.  Here are some golds I just put outside the other day on alfalfa sup.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23605500 - 09/02/16 05:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Quote:

SpeakSoftly said:
I've had similar results as grower with straw vs wood substrates. One thing we have been doing is adding 5-10% alfalfa cubes to the straw and the supplemented straw produces about double the yield, thicker, meatier caps than pure straw. We sterilize the alfalfa pellets, then keep them in the fridge until we need to use them. Good luck growers.



Hey SS, yeah, I too sup with alfalfa cubes...I just pasteurize them in with the straw in a separate bag so I can make sure they get good and mixed in with the straw before spawning.  Here are some golds I just put outside the other day on alfalfa sup.






Hhhnnnnnnnggg.  Those are beautiful.  The pinks too.  They are so plump.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: MrBMF]
    #23605933 - 09/02/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks MrBMF!  Both varieties are super easy...prolly the easiest to grow and they're tasty. I highly recommend them for anyone new or old to growing...even with little know how one is almost guaranteed success and they're fun to experiment with on various substrates as they're so damn fast!  Give them a shot if you haven't already. 


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23606790 - 09/03/16 01:31 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

2.5 lb cluster of golds off 50 lbs soybean hull, 40 lb fuel pellets, 4 lb organic fert. Its about 10" wide. 



Edited by Gr0wer (09/03/16 01:32 AM)


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23606951 - 09/03/16 05:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So how did the walnut bags do? I'm curious because I have a 100+ old walnut I cut in my back yard recently that I make into chips, want to know if it's worth to do or not.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ipoxa]
    #23607172 - 09/03/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:
2.5 lb cluster of golds off 50 lbs soybean hull, 40 lb fuel pellets, 4 lb organic fert. Its about 10" wide. 





Dayamn...nice cluster, Gr0wer!

Quote:

Ipoxa said:
So how did the walnut bags do? I'm curious because I have a 100+ old walnut I cut in my back yard recently that I make into chips, want to know if it's worth to do or not.



Hey, Ipoxa, I just picked up a bunch more.  I mix it with other sawdust and chip mix to vary the sub but it seems to work just fine on its own.  I say go for it.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23607487 - 09/03/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds great, y eah I have some oak sawdust from a sawmill and some bran I plan to fill in with. Didn't want all this to go to waste.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23607811 - 09/03/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What organic ferts you using?


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23607837 - 09/03/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

He uses Epsoma plant tone, which contains probiotic bacteria.
Good for plants, not so much for mycelium, tested.

Should switch to chemical versions.
100% safe and clean, tested.

No offense.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
    #23607849 - 09/03/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Right on.  What about bat guano?  I have some 0-7-0.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23607946 - 09/03/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The idea is to add nutrients that the mycelium wants to a food, carbon rich source.
You want grain potency wood, paper without the contam prone starch.

To do this you need to cover all required nutrients.
Bacteria are not needed to convert things.

----

You can use this site to search mushrooms.
Here you can see King Oyster's.

Checkout the nutrients.


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: SpeakSoftly]
    #23608815 - 09/03/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SpeakSoftly said:
I've had similar results as grower with straw vs wood substrates. One thing we have been doing is adding 5-10% alfalfa cubes to the straw and the supplemented straw produces about double the yield, thicker, meatier caps than pure straw. We sterilize the alfalfa pellets, then keep them in the fridge until we need to use them. Good luck growers.





Hahahaha- heard your voice before I even saw the name on that post! Good to see you on here buddy :wave: - I've been bragging about y'all, :lol:

So if you sterilize the alfalfa, what keeps it from contaming when you mix with pasteurized straw into logs? I know you don't do all of that in front of the flowhood- or is this a different process than the bare handed mixing of colonized grain and straw that y'all did a video of? Sorry but I'm terribly confused- wouldn't sterilizing as opposed to pasteurizing actually make it more likely to contam as you spawn in open air? Or do you colonize the alfalfa first then spread it to straw?


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Edited by TravelAgency (09/03/16 05:47 PM)


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23688099 - 09/28/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Damn bro, those look very nice. We'll have to try the pasteurizing method. Looks like its working great:thumbup:


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23688164 - 09/28/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TravelAgency said:
Quote:

SpeakSoftly said:
I've had similar results as grower with straw vs wood substrates. One thing we have been doing is adding 5-10% alfalfa cubes to the straw and the supplemented straw produces about double the yield, thicker, meatier caps than pure straw. We sterilize the alfalfa pellets, then keep them in the fridge until we need to use them. Good luck growers.





Hahahaha- heard your voice before I even saw the name on that post! Good to see you on here buddy :wave: - I've been bragging about y'all, :lol:

So if you sterilize the alfalfa, what keeps it from contaming when you mix with pasteurized straw into logs? I know you don't do all of that in front of the flowhood- or is this a different process than the bare handed mixing of colonized grain and straw that y'all did a video of? Sorry but I'm terribly confused- wouldn't sterilizing as opposed to pasteurizing actually make it more likely to contam as you spawn in open air? Or do you colonize the alfalfa first then spread it to straw?




So, no we spread the sterilized alfalfa in a non-sterile way, at the same time adding gypsum, mixing it with our hands and stuffing it into tubing. We do end up with some contamination, probably 1/8th which I can happily live with.
That is a good idea though and I think I'll try it that way (colonizing the alfalfa under the flow hood then spreading to straw like we would grain spawn) and see if the mycelium grows through alfalfa.

But I really pulled this thread up to post this picture of blue oysters (Aloha's O12a) the lighter colored one grown on straw with alfalfa (method described by speaksoftly) and Sawdust supplemented with rice bran.


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23688182 - 09/28/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TravelAgency said:
Quote:

SpeakSoftly said:
I've had similar results as grower with straw vs wood substrates. One thing we have been doing is adding 5-10% alfalfa cubes to the straw and the supplemented straw produces about double the yield, thicker, meatier caps than pure straw. We sterilize the alfalfa pellets, then keep them in the fridge until we need to use them. Good luck growers.





Hahahaha- heard your voice before I even saw the name on that post! Good to see you on here buddy :wave: - I've been bragging about y'all, :lol:

So if you sterilize the alfalfa, what keeps it from contaming when you mix with pasteurized straw into logs? I know you don't do all of that in front of the flowhood- or is this a different process than the bare handed mixing of colonized grain and straw that y'all did a video of? Sorry but I'm terribly confused- wouldn't sterilizing as opposed to pasteurizing actually make it more likely to contam as you spawn in open air? Or do you colonize the alfalfa first then spread it to straw?




Right now we are doing it how you said. Sterilizing, laying pasteurized straw on a table, adding gypsum, then adding the sterilized alfalfa, mixing then stuffing into our columns. Adding a layer of sub, then a layer of grain spawn.

I see what you mean about making it more likely to contaminate. It has been working pretty well maybe 80% success rate, but I do like the idea of just adding it into the bags when we pasteurize. Gonna have to change a process or two, but I bet it will save us a lot of time in the long run. Thanks TravelAgency


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: SpeakSoftly]
    #23688226 - 09/28/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Blue?  Those are black!  Awesome!


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23688253 - 09/28/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)


1lb box of mixed oysters Blue and Yellow


Straw


Sawdust


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23688276 - 09/28/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Props all around, especially on the mixed box!


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23688402 - 09/28/16 08:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

That's really interesting, straw vs sawdust!!! Those are some incredible differences!! Any other differences in the process that could also account for it?

And thanks! Glad I could help y'all for a change- y'all have done so much for me! Let me know what kind of difference it makes! Currently taking a break from using my shiny new flowhood! Banging out a lot of work tonight! Oh- and I don't know if the Lipa made it- doesn't look right- but I dropped it anyways so we will see.

Also looks like perhaps my fridge wasn't cold enough, or the cultures I've had have just been in there a loooong time. All the cultures are shrunk and dry looking- guess I'll be doing some emergency transfers over the next few days. I hope they are still good. One of my King clones actually took over almost half the entire interior of the glad mini round!

I digress though- always look forward to the knowledge you share!

Edited to add:

That's also interesting because my unsuplemented pasteurized sawdust gave me fruits more like your straw- (could it be the bran?)

012A


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Edited by TravelAgency (09/28/16 08:57 PM)


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23688566 - 09/28/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Nice. Clear winner to


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: tump]
    #23692931 - 09/30/16 03:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

pardon my ignorance but can alfalfa not be pasteurised with the straw?


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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Mattisfat]
    #23693272 - 09/30/16 07:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, most pasteurize it.  This is the first I've heard of this method. Sounds like a sure fire way to contamination...not sure why it's being done. As long as it's spawned heavily it should cut that risk down due to decreased run time.  Nice looking crops though!


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