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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Loc: El Paso, TX
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Straw VS sawdust, observations
#23458065 - 07/19/16 11:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just wanted to post some observations I've seen with pasteurized straw vs sawdust or soybean hulls, or any sterile substrate for that matter. With hot water bath pasteurized straw i was seeing bacterial blotch, in the form of dark veins running down the caps, deformed caps and a fishy smell. This was with only 75-80 RH and around 65-70F misting 1-2 times a day for 10 seconds. One of the major things i noticed when i was growing side by side straw vs fuel pellet/soybea hull was that the straw grown clusters were always more soggy and wet than those grown on sterilized sawdust blends. With my sterilized oak/soybean hull substrate im sitting around 86-94% RH and 70-74F (summertime) misting heavy (soaks the mushrooms and all surfaces) every 40 min for 8 seconds and still barely seeing minor bacteria on maybe 1-2/40 bags. So I feel like because you can have a higher RH, and mist more often since there are not as many bacteria's present in the substrate this allows you to have a much better BE than straw since the mushrooms can absorb more external moisture without becoming overly saturated like on the straw. It might have something to do with the straw being able to over absorb the moisture? I honestly don't know the real mechanism behind it but i can vouch that sawdust/soybean hull blends are far superior.
Edited by Gr0wer (07/19/16 11:33 PM)
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


Registered: 07/16/12
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23458136 - 07/19/16 11:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Tmethyl]
#23458278 - 07/20/16 01:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wood for the Win!
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poponon
Quaaaack!!!



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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23458554 - 07/20/16 06:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wonder if the tree resins have anything to do with the lack of contams. maybe a contributing factor
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Y e e t!! My Trade List
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"


Registered: 12/25/10
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: poponon]
#23458565 - 07/20/16 06:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting stuff! Thanks for the info!
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: TravelAgency]
#23458753 - 07/20/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Its more likeley due to less bacteria in the substrate.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23458867 - 07/20/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are correct Gr0wer.
A cubensis will grow on straw due to all the carbs, woods is almost carbs free (excluding conversion). Hence the fact that straw will start with contams all the way through, wood, its clean.
Straw is dirty, and very misleading. I don't and won't use it. Only works for wood lovers because of the fiber.
Cubensis law, if it grows all follows.
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Loc: El Paso, TX
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23458948 - 07/20/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Im referring to oysters.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23458958 - 07/20/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know, but what I am saying is straw will grow: mold, bacteria, cubensis, oyster etc. If a cubensis can grow on something then so can mold, bacteria, oyster.
Give 100% wood to cubensis and grain mold, grain bacteria. Nothing, not much will happen. Cubensis law.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23459000 - 07/20/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: I know, but what I am saying is straw will grow: mold, bacteria, cubensis, oyster etc. If a cubensis can grow on something then so can mold, bacteria, oyster.
Give 100% wood to cubensis and grain mold, grain bacteria. Nothing, not much will happen. Cubensis law.
Dude. You're crazy
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Ferather
Mycological



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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23459038 - 07/20/16 09:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Really? not common to know that grain molds, bacteria, can not convert fiber to carbs?
Wood lovers can, because, they are wood lovers. Its just genetics, nothing new.
Make use of it?
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23459054 - 07/20/16 09:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ive seen tons of wood contaminate. Mold can grow on wood absolutely.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23459071 - 07/20/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wood trich yes. I did not say its invincible, only said "wood loving", sorry.
And also is that 100% wood or added grain, bran etc? Essentially wood based BRF tek, hehe.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23459105 - 07/20/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gr0wer said: Ive seen tons of wood contaminate. Mold can grow on wood absolutely.
Yeah I dare say let a bag of straw sit and a bag of sawdust sit side by side and the sawdust will mold first. It's a matter of surface area and the straw has a waxy coating.
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Paresthesia
Stranger



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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
#23459255 - 07/20/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok idiot question, what about pasteurized sawdust vs straw? If I use the same spawn ratio will I get similar yields? I'm nowhere near being able to do sterile work yet...
-------------------- "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T. S. Eliot
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Paresthesia]
#23459295 - 07/20/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was doing pasterized straw with 10% sawdust and had the same results as with straw. You really cant pasteurize sawdust without inoculating some benifical bacteria like compost, especially if were talkikg about fuel pellets which are fairly clean.
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Paresthesia
Stranger



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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23459420 - 07/20/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have grown using the Lipa tek of pellets + boiling water ( occasionally added corn gluten meal to supplement), I had very few bags contaminate.. but I guess that wasn't really pasteurization either.
-------------------- "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T. S. Eliot
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23459496 - 07/20/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gr0wer said: I was doing pasterized straw with 10% sawdust and had the same results as with straw. You really cant pasteurize sawdust without inoculating some benifical bacteria like compost, especially if were talkikg about fuel pellets which are fairly clean.
Huh? You're not going to kill bacteria below boiling point so you'll get some bacteria in there regardless. Not necessarily terrible I found shiitake and oyster don't slow down much.
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: drake89]
#23459623 - 07/20/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was just stating pasteruizing sawdust wont work as well as straw. Straw was a living thing and covered in microbes and bacteria, fuel pellets and most sawdust is fairly sterile so pasteruization wont work as well. Ive tried pasteruizing pellets using lipa tek and saw no improvements over plain old lipa tek.
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soil
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Re: Straw VS sawdust, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23459743 - 07/20/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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i have used sawdust, wood chips, straw and other plant waste. i found that the quality of the straw is very important. any time I used straw from a outside source, straw bale or a bag i get contamination within a few weeks and can only get a few flushes. when i use the straw that I grow as well as the various others substrates ( sunflower stalks, sorghum stalks, corn stalks, etc...) from the farm here i get much better results. The straw logs will go months and still produce with no contamination this way. that's my experience not necessarily absolute fact.
most straw is grown in horrible monoculture conditions and sprayed many times with herbicides, pesticides and fungicides. i personally think this has a huge effect on quality of mushrooms and contamination.
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