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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Republicans [Re: Kryptos]
    #23502482 - 08/02/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
I don't know, seeing as how every case I listed either fell under that law or preceded it (in the specific case of Korea and Vietnam). It would be interesting if there was a single precedent that was not ruled legal under the above mentioned law.

EDIT: maybe you could argue that the bombing of Kosovo under Clinton was not sanctioned by congress under that law, but on the other hand it didn't last long enough to need congressional confirmation.




Correct, my understanding is 90 days without congressional approval, after that, congress must be consulted, that's why almost EVERY SINGLE democrat voted for Iraq war


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23522524 - 08/08/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Saying one President is good for keeping rates low (or high) and that another President is bad for doing the opposite, doesn't wash. Credit, or blame, falls on Congress.



I just dug up this old gem showing how little congress impacts the budget:



Notice how close the final number always is to the President's request.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23522612 - 08/08/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Saying one President is good for keeping rates low (or high) and that another President is bad for doing the opposite, doesn't wash. Credit, or blame, falls on Congress.



I just dug up this old gem showing how little congress impacts the budget:



Notice how close the final number always is to the President's request.




I love how you just step in and put shit to rest with your charts, and whatnot. Although, I haven't checked your source.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23522614 - 08/08/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Notice how close the final number always is to the President's request.




Thanks. That's twice in one thread you confirmed my position.

The President 'proposes'. Congress 'sets'.

That doesn't change whether or not Congress goes along.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23522634 - 08/08/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I love how you just step in and put shit to rest with your charts, and whatnot.




Perhaps that will actually happen here. It hasn't yet.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23522636 - 08/08/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I get your semantics argument.  The question is who has the most influence on the budget, and that's very clearly the President.  The chart above (and apparently the poll above) shows that to be the case.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23522637 - 08/08/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Notice how close the final number always is to the President's request.




Thanks. That's twice in one thread you confirmed my position.

The President 'proposes'. Congress 'sets'.

That doesn't change whether or not Congress goes along.




The president actually 'sets' in most cases. He proposes, and then turns around and approves it. Congress would need a very good reason, with overwhelming support to override the president on a budget proposal.

So yes, congress plays a role in the process, but the president's role is at least as influential as congress, if not more.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23522638 - 08/08/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I love how you just step in and put shit to rest with your charts, and whatnot. Although, I haven't checked your source.



Here's the source:  http://zfacts.com/zfacts.com/p/57.html


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23522642 - 08/08/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
The president actually 'sets' in most cases. He proposes, and then turns around and approves it.



Exactly.  He's got the first and last say.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23522652 - 08/08/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Haven't looked at your poll. The childishness was too much.

You chart doesn't prove anything. You're very clearly kidding yourself.

The President can only propose. He can't set the rate. Those that set have the influence.

Your parents can propose you get a better job (increase revenue). Only you can do it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23522653 - 08/08/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
The President 'proposes'. Congress 'sets'. The President either signs off or vetos. If he signs off, the rate Congress 'set' is the rate. If he vetos it goes back to the beginning. As that's what happens, the argument was won some time ago.




I would consider 'signing off' setting the rate. It's not set until the president signs off on it. It is a collaborative process, clearly, and you're making it out to be something very different.

From Falcon's graph, we can see that the president is the most influential figure on the budget. You may not be willing to concede, but the evidence of that fact is quite persuasive.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23522658 - 08/08/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
He's got the first and last say.




Nope. His is a request followed by a yes or no. He has no way of setting the rate or forcing Congress to set a rate.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23522661 - 08/08/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Haven't looked at your poll. The childishness was too much.

You chart doesn't prove anything. You're very clearly kidding yourself.

The President can only propose. He can't set the rate. Those that set have the influence.

Your parents can propose you get a better job (increase revenue). Only you can do it.




Yes, but my parents can't veto my employment decision lol. That analogy doesn't work at all. It is congress who brings a proposal to the president, who signs or vetos. Congress can propose an increase in revenue, but the president makes the final decision, generally speaking.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23522665 - 08/08/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I would consider 'signing off' setting the rate.




Nope. That's the President agreeing to the rate Congress set. Otherwise the rate would always be what the President wants.


Quote:

the evidence of that fact is quite persuasive.




The 'evidence' presented so far is laughable.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23522671 - 08/08/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I would consider 'signing off' setting the rate.




Nope. That's the President agreeing to the rate Congress set. Otherwise the rate would always be what the President wants.


Quote:

the evidence of that fact is quite persuasive.




The 'evidence' presented so far is laughable.




The rate pretty much is always what the president wants. As I said, it's a collaborative process between congress and the president. You want to pretend that the president has no impact on the budget, and that is just not accurate.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23522681 - 08/08/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
The 'evidence' presented so far is laughable.



Everyone here is laughing at you.  Take the poll.  At least that would give your side one vote.  :smirk:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23522682 - 08/08/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
It is congress who brings a proposal to the president, who signs or vetos.




Except... no. All the President can do is request and then approve or deny.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23522688 - 08/08/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
The 'evidence' presented so far is laughable.



Everyone here is laughing at you.  Take the poll.  At least that would give your side one vote.  :smirk:




The laughter would only have an affect if I was wrong.

The childish comment came as no surprise.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23522691 - 08/08/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You want to pretend that the president has no impact on the budget, and that is just not accurate.




If the President had no impact, the budget wouldn't require his yes or no. He has no power to set the rate... still.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23522709 - 08/08/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps a history lesson is in  order.


Quote:

“All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.”
— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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