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Invisiblespock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 1,165
Re: Republicans [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23486990 - 07/28/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It crushed us in debt. Clinton had just got us out of the hole that Reagan buried us in and here comes GW starting two wars and cutting taxes. Who benefited? Halliburton getting no-bid contracts on rebuilding shit that had not even been bombed yet. that much debt might not have caused the recession but it made our dollar weaker. It crushed us in debt. Debt requires interest. Interest compounds. Compounding interest on billions of dollars leads to debt in the trillions. Our economy has stabilized. And here come the Republicans nominating a man who brags about being the wizard of debt.

Peace
Spock


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Republicans [Re: spock]
    #23487181 - 07/28/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You think war caused the recession, debt doesn't cause it either.


It started from subprime mortgages, the govt force banks to make risky loans, that was instituted during Clinton, the effects of this shitty policy weren't felt immediately, it took time.

Blaming Bush for the recession is like blaming Nixon for Vietnam


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Invisiblespock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 1,165
Re: Republicans [Re: spock]
    #23487284 - 07/28/16 08:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spock said:
. that much debt might not have caused the recession




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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: spock]
    #23487289 - 07/28/16 08:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spock said:
You are wrong. Look up how the reps and dems voted. It is clear that dems voted against cutting taxes in 2003. War is expensive. Reps know this but figure "fuck it". The Democratic party has proved for over 30 years that it is the more fiscally responsible party.




Could be. Dem policies have also been tragic for the economy. Bill Clinton's free trade agreements, government guaranteed loan programs for housing and college tuition have been terrible for the economy, deregulation of the banks, etc.

If you think levying tax is the only factor in fiscal responsibility, then let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that Obama's tax rates were lower than Reagans for most of his presidency. I don't know if they are still right now, but I believe they are.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: spock] * 1
    #23487298 - 07/28/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spock said:
It crushed us in debt. Clinton had just got us out of the hole that Reagan buried us in and here comes GW starting two wars and cutting taxes. Who benefited? Halliburton getting no-bid contracts on rebuilding shit that had not even been bombed yet. that much debt might not have caused the recession but it made our dollar weaker. It crushed us in debt. Debt requires interest. Interest compounds. Compounding interest on billions of dollars leads to debt in the trillions. Our economy has stabilized. And here come the Republicans nominating a man who brags about being the wizard of debt.

Peace
Spock




Obama has continued bush's tax cuts, and expanded the wars to 7+ different countries. Now we appear to be on the verge of initiating war with Russia.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23487449 - 07/28/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

spock said:
It crushed us in debt. Clinton had just got us out of the hole that Reagan buried us in and here comes GW starting two wars and cutting taxes. Who benefited? Halliburton getting no-bid contracts on rebuilding shit that had not even been bombed yet. that much debt might not have caused the recession but it made our dollar weaker. It crushed us in debt. Debt requires interest. Interest compounds. Compounding interest on billions of dollars leads to debt in the trillions. Our economy has stabilized. And here come the Republicans nominating a man who brags about being the wizard of debt.

Peace
Spock







Obama has continued bush's tax cuts, and expanded the wars to 7+ different countries. Now we appear to be on the verge of initiating war with Russia.




I believes that it is this person fault.


Duties of the Secretary of State


January 20, 2009
Under the Constitution, the President of the United States determines U.S. foreign policy. The Secretary of State, appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate, is the President’s chief foreign affairs adviser. The Secretary carries out the President’s foreign policies through the State Department and the Foreign Service of the United States.

Created in 1789 by the Congress as the successor to the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Department of State is the senior executive Department of the U.S. Government. The Secretary of State’s duties relating to foreign affairs have not changed significantly since then, but they have become far more complex as international commitments multiplied. These duties -- the activities and responsibilities of the State Department -- include the following:

Serves as the President's principal adviser on U.S. foreign policy;
Conducts negotiations relating to U.S. foreign affairs;
Grants and issues passports to American citizens and exequaturs to foreign consuls in the United States;
Advises the President on the appointment of U.S. ambassadors, ministers, consuls, and other diplomatic representatives;
Advises the President regarding the acceptance, recall, and dismissal of the representatives of foreign governments;
Personally participates in or directs U.S. representatives to international conferences, organizations, and agencies;
Negotiates, interprets, and terminates treaties and agreements;
Ensures the protection of the U.S. Government to American citizens, property, and interests in foreign countries;
Supervises the administration of U.S. immigration laws abroad;
Provides information to American citizens regarding the political, economic, social, cultural, and humanitarian conditions in foreign countries;
Informs the Congress and American citizens on the conduct of U.S. foreign relations;
Promotes beneficial economic intercourse between the United States and other countries;
Administers the Department of State;
Supervises the Foreign Service of the United States. http://www.state.gov/secretary/115194.htm


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23488219 - 07/29/16 04:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
If you think levying tax is the only factor in fiscal responsibility, then let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that Obama's tax rates were lower than Reagans for most of his presidency.




Let's take a moment to appreciate that Presidents do not set the tax rate.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23488315 - 07/29/16 05:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
If you think levying tax is the only factor in fiscal responsibility, then let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that Obama's tax rates were lower than Reagans for most of his presidency.




Let's take a moment to appreciate that Presidents do not set the tax rate.




Low info voters believe they do


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23489155 - 07/29/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
If you think levying tax is the only factor in fiscal responsibility, then let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that Obama's tax rates were lower than Reagans for most of his presidency.




Let's take a moment to appreciate that Presidents do not set the tax rate.




Let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that a President approves tax rates, and therefore influences them.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23489341 - 07/29/16 01:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:lolsy:

Influence? He either signs it or he doesn't.

Really dude... you got caught with your pants down on this one.

Sometimes the best reply is a simple... 'you're correct'.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23489474 - 07/29/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
:lolsy:

Influence? He either signs it or he doesn't.

Really dude... you got caught with your pants down on this one.

Sometimes the best reply is a simple... 'you're correct'.




You don't think Reagan or Roosevelt had any influence on taxes?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23489568 - 07/29/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Presidents don't set the rates. That goes for Reagan, Clinton, Bush or Obama.

Saying one President is good for keeping rates low (or high) and that another President is bad for doing the opposite, doesn't wash. Credit, or blame, falls on Congress.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23489710 - 07/29/16 03:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Presidents don't set the rates. That goes for Reagan, Clinton, Bush or Obama.

Saying one President is good for keeping rates low (or high) and that another President is bad for doing the opposite, doesn't wash. Credit, or blame, falls on Congress.




It falls on congress and the president, unless the congress overrides a presidents veto of their tax bill. Then it would fall squarely on the congress. The congress typically defers to the President and the Treasure Secretary's recommendations, and they work together to develop the tax rates, among other things.

You're making it sound as if the president is not involved in the process at all, aside from a 'Yea' or 'Nay', and that is not the case. So yes, generally speaking, a portion of responsibility certainly falls on the president, but also the congress, and the treasure secretary. That truly is the beauty of our system.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23489936 - 07/29/16 05:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're kidding yourself.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23489948 - 07/29/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I think you're kidding yourself.




I'm not. I'm explaining the way things work.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Republicans [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23492573 - 07/30/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Kidding yourself as in first it's the Bush or Obama tax rate and then it becomes the tax rates are a result of the President and Congress holding hands around a campfire and singing Kumbayah.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23493285 - 07/30/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Presidents do not set the tax rate

Credit, or blame, falls on Congress.




Clearly, you don't quite get it.  The President has the first and last word.  This simple chart should help you understand:



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23494680 - 07/31/16 05:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Congress sets the rate.

Sixteenth Amendment
Quote:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.




Perhaps you don't have a grasp on the meaning of the word 'request' found in the first panel. Let me help:

Quote:

re·quest
rəˈkwest/
noun
noun: request; plural noun: requests

    1.
    an act of asking politely or formally for something.
    "a request for information"
    synonyms: appeal, entreaty, plea, petition, application, demand, call; More
    formaladjuration;
    literarybehest
    "requests for assistance"
    bidding, entreaty, demand, insistence
    "Charlotte spoke, at Ursula's request"
        a thing that is asked for.
        "to have our ideas taken seriously is surely a reasonable request"
        synonyms: requirement, wish, desire; choice
        "indicate your requests on the form"
        an instruction to a computer to provide information or perform another function.
        a tune or song played on a radio program, in some instances accompanied by a personal message, in response to a letter or call asking for it.
        archaic
        the state of being sought after.
        "human intelligence, which is in constant request in a family"

verb
verb: request; 3rd person present: requests; past tense: requested; past participle: requested; gerund or present participle: requesting

    1.
    politely or formally ask for.
    "he received the information he had requested"
    synonyms: ask for, appeal for, call for, seek, solicit, plead for, apply for, demand; formaladjure
    "the government requested military aid"




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republicans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23495427 - 07/31/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You don't appear to understand that the President has the final say.

Do you really think that Reagan should NOT be credited for the Reagan tax cuts?  :shake:  :picard:

If not, you're the only person I know who feels that way.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Republicans [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23495565 - 07/31/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You don't appear to understand that the President has the final say.




You don't appear to understand that reading the entire thread is key.

He either signs it or he doesn't.

So there it is. He can veto it, yet that still doesn't always give him the final say. There's always the over-ride and often even if a President doesn't get the rate he wants... he signs the budget anyway.

Now... any further stupidity you'd like to spout? Or are you done beclowning yourself?

Congress sets the rate.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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