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OfflineAqueousAlkaloid
Biologist
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Registered: 07/19/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Amanita bisporigera, Destroying Angel in Oklahoma!
    #23455861 - 07/19/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

WARNING

Deadly Amanita bisporigera currently fruiting in east central Oklahoma. Please check all pastures with access to forest edge, especially oak in the cross timbers ecoregion.

Curious livestock will die if they ingest this species! Diligent landowners can save animal's lives!



Cup-like volva at the base, white gills, and white spore print are some of the characteristics of this deadly species.


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GIVE ME KNOWLEDGE OR GIVE ME DEATH!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Amanita bisporigera, Destroying Angel in Oklahoma! [Re: AqueousAlkaloid]
    #23455951 - 07/19/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Seems likely, check to see if the cap stains bright yellow in 5% Potassium Hydroxide.  If not, look into other options like A. elliptosperma.


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OfflineAqueousAlkaloid
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Registered: 07/19/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Amanita bisporigera, Destroying Angel in Oklahoma! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #23455990 - 07/19/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Seems likely, check to see if the cap stains bright yellow in 5% Potassium Hydroxide.  If not, look into other options like A. elliptosperma.




Isn't A. elliptosperma considered deadly as well? Or is the jury still out on toxicity?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Amanita bisporigera, Destroying Angel in Oklahoma! [Re: AqueousAlkaloid]
    #23456002 - 07/19/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Many members of Amanita section Phalloideae are deadly, but not all.  In China, some destroying angels are eaten and sold in markets.  We have 5 or 6 taxa in the USA in this group, no one knows if some of them are edible.  Study is complicated by the fact that half the time deadly Amanita species are eaten, they no effects are noticed - either the levels of the toxins are highly variable, or peoples reactions to them are.


More studies need to be done which combine macro and micro morphological characteristics, LCMS chemical testing and DNA analysis.  There are people working on the DNA, but I don't think anyone is correlating the sequencing results with LCMS analysis.


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OfflineAqueousAlkaloid
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Registered: 07/19/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Amanita bisporigera, Destroying Angel in Oklahoma! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #23456011 - 07/19/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Many members of Amanita section Phalloideae are deadly, but not all.  In China, some destroying angels are eaten and sold in markets.  We have 5 or 6 taxa in the USA in this group, no one knows if some of them are edible.  Study is complicated by the fact that half the time deadly Amanita species are eaten, they no effects are noticed - either the levels of the toxins are highly variable, or peoples reactions to them are.


More studies need to be done which combine macro and micro morphological characteristics, LCMS chemical testing and DNA analysis.  There are people working on the DNA, but I don't think anyone is correlating the sequencing results with LCMS analysis.




Ah, the classic taxonomic battle between lumpers and splitters! Hey, someone has to do research for grants and publish papers. That's how our little science world goes round!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Amanita bisporigera, Destroying Angel in Oklahoma! [Re: AqueousAlkaloid]
    #23457206 - 07/19/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It's not really between lumpers and splitters - everyone agrees that they need to be split.    No one is getting grants to do this work, it's all done by aficionados using money that they earn doing other things.


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OfflineAqueousAlkaloid
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Registered: 07/19/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Amanita bisporigera, Destroying Angel in Oklahoma! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #23457451 - 07/19/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
It's not really between lumpers and splitters - everyone agrees that they need to be split.    No one is getting grants to do this work, it's all done by aficionados using money that they earn doing other things.




I truly appreciate the back and forth and I am not trying to be a dick. I understand I am new to you, and new to shroomery. I am not questioning your mycology expertise.

My comment was largely rhetorical. It is a discussion for a different forum probably. But i am a scientist, albeit not a mycologist, more specifically i am a herpetologist. University level academia is something I am painfully familiar with. A simple search on my JSTOR account provides countless university papers dealing with mycology, new species descriptions, investigations into new drugs (especially with amatoxins), even detailed analysis of phylogeny.

Aficionados no doubt do their fair share of work and pay for it on their own dime. Maybe you are suggesting that only an aficionado would pay for research on the finer points in describing the taxonomy of the North American destroying angel species complex, to which I say, you're probably 1000% correct. My comment was simply expressing the fact that unanswered questions in the hard sciences rely on publication first and foremost, most often facilitated through the grant writing process.

Again, I truly appreciate the responses I can tell you know your stuff. Thank you!

P.S. It's no secret splitters always win! Lol. I'm just old school, what can I say. I remember when almost all North American toad species were Bufo and then halfway through my undergraduate degree the genus Anaxyrus was added and new taxonomic guidelines published. There are countless such examples in science. Knowledge tends to go forward, not backward, despite what some politicians might say.


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