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404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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potency issues
#23453967 - 07/18/16 07:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is probably the first time ever or one of the very few times at the very least that i've ever had someone eat something I made and come back saying that nothing happened. I just ate 4.5g at 8:55pm so I'm gonna see what the deal is... but my tolerance might be off a bit as i took 50ug on saturday I think.
working with KSSS and grain > coir. Is this just something that happens with Multispore, or are there more consistent strains? Every time I've ever grown this, i've had amazing results. I just find it strange that a friend of mine could eat a quarter and have next to nothing happen.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23453981 - 07/18/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Potency is genetic, multispore leads to random occurrences. Maybe your friend is either dumb, naturally tolerant, or on medication.
The "dumb" bit may seem like a low blow but I've come to notice that that actually does prevent people from tripping sometimes.
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23453983 - 07/18/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can't believe it. I've heard multispore had inconsistencies with potency but absolutely no effects? I was going to order me some ksss spores but now I'm not so sure
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Pasty has grown PE that was totally bunk, anything can be bunk, don't read too deeply into it.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Ksss can be very potent. Generally compared to PE. This is just one of those luck of the draws crap.
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23453993 - 07/18/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I guess it all comes back to cubes being cubes. Even PE, all your dreams are dead
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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A lot of things could have played a factor. Maybe he didn't eat them on an empty stomach.
Maybe the mushrooms didn't feel like bothering with him 
Some things aren't meant to be.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23454040 - 07/18/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Potency is genetic, multispore leads to random occurrences. Maybe your friend is either dumb, naturally tolerant, or on medication.
The "dumb" bit may seem like a low blow but I've come to notice that that actually does prevent people from tripping sometimes.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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TGS
Pied Piper



Registered: 10/27/13
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I just finished a tub of KSSS. They were small, not so many, and I only got one flush before the tub started looking bad. However, what I got out of it was quite "lively."
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23454056 - 07/18/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Potency is genetic, multispore leads to random occurrences. Maybe your friend is either dumb, naturally tolerant, or on medication.
The "dumb" bit may seem like a low blow but I've come to notice that that actually does prevent people from tripping sometimes.
I've never known IQ to do that. he's well seasoned to tripping... knows what's strong, and what isn't. the stuff i made before this floored me at 2.4g and he and everyone agreed they were great. this is... trash.
But yeah, these are duds to the max... 4.5 and literally NOTHING is happening. I've got some smooth body feels, but it's barely anything to throw a stone at. I'm hella disappointed.
So basically everything i've said thus far is the reasoning for what's happening here, yeah? One more question though, does having too large of a genetic pool allow for this to happen? or that it's just something that can happen
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23454058 - 07/18/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are these dried correctly? That's about the #1 cause of potency loss.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23454064 - 07/18/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TGS said: I just finished a tub of KSSS. They were small, not so many, and I only got one flush before the tub started looking bad. However, what I got out of it was quite "lively."
What i typically see with KSSS is that they start small with tons of mutants and then get larger on the second flush. as the mycelium weakens over time, they generally get easier to pull from the substrate, but that's all mycelium i believe.
Quote:
Inocuole said: Are these dried correctly? That's about the #1 cause of potency loss.
Dried the same way I dried the ones that rocked my shit, so yes. I keep them in a ziplock back typically.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23454067 - 07/18/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I tell you what though, this chitin is fighting with my stomach. I'm gonna have some massive gas here later tonight.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404] 2
#23454080 - 07/18/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Potency is mostly genetics. Bunk batches are rare especially with a well domesticated lineage but grow enough ms and anything can and will pop up.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Thanks. I was hoping to hear "this is kind of rare, but does happen" Been growing this strain for about 3 years now and this is the first.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23454094 - 07/18/16 08:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is the whole tub a 'batch' or is a flush a 'batch' in your opinion? as in, do these genetics vary flush to flush or is it pretty much all conglomerated once you start pushing it into fruiting conditions?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23454097 - 07/18/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Could be none or all of the above, depends on too many things you can't see.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23454111 - 07/18/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Could be none or all of the above, depends on too many things you can't see.
usually with ms I tend to assume ever fruit in the tub has a different profile. Anastomosis will ensure that some of the strongest genetics run throughout much of the colony but the makeup of each fruit can have 100's of strains in it.
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starshine666420
stranger


Registered: 02/20/13
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23454115 - 07/18/16 08:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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The one time I worked with ksss it did the same for me the whole batch was useless
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Anastomosis being the connection of the entire network and in this case the flow of genetic information, no? Isn't it true that mycelium more or less evenly distribute nutrients and water in the network as well?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23454140 - 07/18/16 08:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Anastomosis is the fusion of hyphae in the network. In the case of monokaryons they exchange genetic information and become a strain. But you can see anastomosis occur with dykaryons as well which may result in one set taking over the other.
I wish I knew more about such processes but we do know that it's possible for spores to germinate on fully colonized substrates and add their genetics to the colony through anastomosis. That's how the rusty JAS came about. Cron musta had one hell of a CRS sporeload for that shit lol.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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rusty jas? crs?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23454199 - 07/18/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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JAS = John Allen strain. Cron was growing some JAS when a bunch of them came up with brown spores. He had previously done a massive Colombian Rust spore grow and had a big spore dump. The rusty JAS behaved like a typical cube cross, the recessive traits were very unstable. He gave me and a few other people prints. I had most of mine turn up with purple spores but one fruit in one tub put out brown. I printed it but never got around to trying to stabilize it.
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MysticMoteToter



Registered: 07/26/15
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23454342 - 07/18/16 09:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Maybe your friend is dumb
The "dumb" bit may seem like a low blow but I've come to notice that that actually does prevent people from tripping sometimes.
Love when Inoc slaughters em
-------------------- Half Homo Hardly Sapient Overview Effect Fuck War, Feed Birds.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Well when you snip out certain words and put it like that, sure, but I've legit had stupid people not trip and I couldn't figure out why except maybe because they just weren't self aware enough to even notice anything was happening. That or intense psychological blocks.. but if it's actually bunk it's actually bunk, that seems to be the case at this point.
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MysticMoteToter



Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 2,036
Loc: Who nose.
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23454497 - 07/18/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Haha i know man, and i think i get what your talking about haha. i have some "less than philosophical" friends, and mostly they just like the body high and warpy visuals. Ime they still "trip", but nowhere near the degree that my friends with more active imaginations/thought processes. Haha but i seriously do like the bluntness of your comments, frankness is definitely necessary in Mush Cult haha the comment just made me laugh out loud so i had to comment haha
-------------------- Half Homo Hardly Sapient Overview Effect Fuck War, Feed Birds.
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Teemo 6T3
႟тнe мedιcιne мan ☼



Registered: 07/21/14
Posts: 1,570
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Potency has been shit with me too recently since i'm back playing with MS. I honestly don't really care though, cus i just increase my dosage.
I use to buy grow kits from European website (they send colonised brf/verm boxes, that were already colonised) just to clone their fruits, they use to have bomb ass strains, very potent, i think they isolate them for potency and yield, not sure though, but they use to be super potent.
Wouldn't recommend you doing that though, i think its illegal in the US, and a couple of other countries.
-------------------- Shrooming Is Of The Essence   Rest In Peace Dankington
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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I understand you guys have for the most part confirmed my suspicions on the problem being mostly being a genetic and MS issue, however, what about consolidation of the grain, letting the organism chow down on the grain for a week or so after fully colonized and then spawning? I know this is what you do for PF cakes, but can anyone tell me why this wouldn't also apply to grain and monos?
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23455625 - 07/19/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think it's because when you're using brf you're more than likely using it as a cake. for the cake to hold itself together, I believe it takes a week of consolidating. Whereas with grains for monos, you're just breaking it up and mixing it in with the substrate.
That's my understanding anyways.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
cronicr said: consolidating is done with cakes because they push the limits of being too nutritious so letting the myc get a better grip on it will help the cake itself perform better, too nutritious of a sub and you may get blobs on your first flush, cubes are not as proun to it but things like shitake suffer alot without it, it's not so much about the myc digesting the sub ....this we want most of to happen during fruiting so we keep the co2 levels high during colonizing so consolidating is just to make sure it has a good foothold
Quote:
cronicr said: i still find dunking grain spawn to be great, even stonesun tested it with his isolates and noticed faster colonizing but no diff on pinning times. as for consolidated spawn as van said we dont do it, we really want a majority of it to be consumed at fruiting which is why we aim for high co2 levels with our grain spawn, this speeds up colonizing and saves the rest for fruiting, this is why you see subs shrink once fruiting begins in things such as mono tubs and trays. it's also a lot harder to break up a consolidated jar, some species it pretty much becomes a write off
Quote:
PussyFart said: Consolidation is only for highly nutritious substrtates like BRF cakes, which requre extra time for the mycellium to digest the super nutritious substrate it has already colonized...yes knotting can occur during consolidation,
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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I was literally going to post that BRF was also more nutritive than grain iirc, haha. Thanks
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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The other thing to understand about consolidation is its going to happen with super nutritious substrates regardless of whether it's in fruiting conditions or not. So for brf cakes we keep it in the jar to prevent undue moisture loss while it consolidates.
With bulk there is little worry about moisture loss, a field capacity bulk sub has a far larger water reservoir than brf cakes do.
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Look at me spreading misinformation with my ideas my bad.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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Fruit Cakes
Shroom-God

Registered: 06/30/16
Posts: 61
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: potency issues [Re: 404]
#23456076 - 07/19/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mazatapec always rewards you with highly potent mycelium and shrooms. small mushies but pack alot of psilocybin
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Oh, it always does? Always?
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Fruit Cakes
Shroom-God

Registered: 06/30/16
Posts: 61
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23456574 - 07/19/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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indeed lool, a little is alot with them
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Teemo 6T3
႟тнe мedιcιne мan ☼



Registered: 07/21/14
Posts: 1,570
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-------------------- Shrooming Is Of The Essence   Rest In Peace Dankington
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Quote:
Fruit Cakes said: indeed lool, a little is alot with them
That was sarcasm, the name on the syringe doesn't guarantee that only potent genetics spring forth. Maz are just as likely as anything else to put out bunk mushrooms. The problem is that you're extrapolating your experiences off of not enough information and it's showing your ignorance.
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Fruit Cakes
Shroom-God

Registered: 06/30/16
Posts: 61
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: potency issues [Re: Inocuole]
#23458201 - 07/20/16 12:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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aw well gata be told by someone i am quite young, not your average 30+ yearold man doin this you know, just a kid really, gata grow meh roots
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Most people on here are like 20...
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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Fruit Cakes
Shroom-God

Registered: 06/30/16
Posts: 61
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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okey ;D
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