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youareagod
Stranger

Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions!
#23451007 - 07/17/16 07:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey Cultivators,
Thanks for helping me out. I'm having some issues with PF Tek and don't really know what's going on. I've tried 3 times and each time nothing happens to my jars. The last two times were as follows;
I followed PF Tek Youtube videos as closely as I could, using glove box and flaming syringe and everything. My measurements are correct and I am as precise with every step as I can be. I sterilised jars for 90 minutes. I put the jars on a steam tray that keeps the jars entirely out of the water over a pot of boiling water. As the lid did not fit with the jars on the tray, I made a new lid using foil. Once sterilised I remove the foil from the jars. The fix is brown rice four and vermiculite. My jars are kept on a heat mat (for lizards) in a drawer in my room (see pictures). The room is usually around 70f, but the jars are always warm to the touch as they live in a tiny drawer on the heat mat. I have just ordered a thermometer on ebay so I'll get drawer temp soon, but I'd speculate that the jars are around 80f. They are NOT hot, just warm. After one month, no sign of any growth in any jars, no good growth and no mould. Also, even though I filled the jars to an inch from the top, then fully topped of with vermiculite, the content of the jars seems to have 'settled' and there is a lot of empty space in the top of my jar. The print came from a friend. He used the same source of prints for his last two batches and they worked for him.
All I can think is either; temperature is way off, brown rice flour isn't correct (I've used the same one every time and it's 'organic' and expensive, or not enough air flow in drawers? But I'm not stoked on any of these ideas as my buddy used some of my flour in his jars and they work, his jars get same/less air flow than mine do and he also has his on just one little heat mat.
Anyone know why my substrate settles so much? Any suggestions? The picture shows how nothing has happened after a month and the content has settled.
Thanks for your help!

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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23451028 - 07/17/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Heating mats are always a big contributing factor to noob grow failure. Watch the actual PF TEK. The "lets grow mushrooms" one. Links in my signature below help out too
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: bodhisatta]
#23451401 - 07/17/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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The brf/verm mix in the first pic looks way off and it's very loose. No dry contam barrier with too much moisture and open space in the jar.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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youareagod
Stranger

Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23451641 - 07/18/16 12:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey Trusted Cultivator,
Yup, I watched all 4 "Let's Grow Mushrooms" using PF Tek method on YouTube and followed that process. Not sure why I haven't had any luck.
Hey Cosmo Kramer,
The jars were originally filled to within 1 inch from the top using 1 cup water, 1 cup brown rice flour, 2 cups vermiculite Then the final inch was vermiculite and I sterilised. I agree, they look loose and there is too much space in the jar now, but when I first prepared the batch every jar was full to the brim. I tapped each jar against a bench to get the mixture to settle.
Thanks for your replies.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23451646 - 07/18/16 12:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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No dry verm barrier but used a different kind of lid. But look how the cake mix looks and the growth
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: bodhisatta]
#23451682 - 07/18/16 01:06 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You shouldn't be incubating jars, especially at 80F. Bacteria at those temps will be thriving, especially if you inoculated with a spore syringe since those are said to always house some bacteria.
Your current room temps are PERFECT for every stage of cultivation. 70-75F is the best temp you can have IMHO. No use wasting energy on heating the jars to only make things worse ultimately.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23452026 - 07/18/16 07:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's tricky to get the perfect PF jar mix when starting out. Shake down the mix more and add the dry verm layer last. Don't shake after the verm layer is in place or it will fall in on the sides. Also, don't inoculate the jar until you get the PF mix and sterilization down first. It's best to dump it and start again, rather than waste a syringe on bad jars.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23452487 - 07/18/16 10:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't remember RR mentioning a heat mat in those videos...
--------------------
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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youareagod
Stranger

Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23454859 - 07/19/16 01:49 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Haha, touché NDStepp84 - you're right, that's a "tip" I got elsewhere.
Based on your response and what Supalemonhase said, I guess the mat is a bad idea.
I'm gonna ditch the batch and try again (take 3.5). If anyone's got any more suggestions about why it hasn't done anything and/or why it has settled so much that would be great. Stoked to have no mould so happy with my 'cleanliness' but would love some mycellium as well!
Cheers
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23454872 - 07/19/16 02:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is it settling during PCing? Maybe you are making it too "airy". Don't compact it too much, BRF mix is inherently dense but I can see it settling from the heat if it has large air pockets before it goes into the PC.
As for spores not germinating, it could be a ton of things honestly. Unviable syringe, bacterial as fuck syringe, bad technique, you name it. One way to eliminate a big set of variables is agar. Inoculate spores on sterile media, if they germinate, you know your spores are viable, if it turns milky, you know it's contaminated. Agar also gives you the cleanest inoculant known to man, which is it's biggest perk IMO.
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23456477 - 07/19/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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To me that verm looks super course. IMO, fine verm is better and definitely makes a better filter( dry verm layer).Also course holds less water than fine. Watch those " let's grow mushrooms" vids a few times and follow exactly, do not change anything also make sure to add the water to the verm first then mix the brf in, it allows the brf to coat the verm. When fruiting build your chamber exactly like this
The most important part is to follow everything EXACTLY, do not do anything different from the videos/ link. They are developed for your best chance of success, changing anything that you may think might work better may end up in failure. For example a lot of people have failed by doing seemingly harmless acts such as putting the foil back on their jars after inoculation thinking it would help keep out contams, but it traps moisture in the dry verm layer often ruining it as a filter.
--------------------
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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youareagod
Stranger

Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23484031 - 07/27/16 10:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey all,
I've had another crack. As I'm still not sure what I've done wrong the last two times I've aimed to follow 'let's grow mushrooms' 4 part PF tek series exactly as it says.
This time, I bought a different brown rice flour. I also am NOT putting my jars on a heat mat, as NDStepp84 advised. I keep my jars in a small drawer and the temp is roughly 70-75f. I still have the heat mats in the drawer to get the temperature to 75 otherwise it would often get to as low as 60 from time to time.
I had a 3 day old print which I diluted half of into 12ml of very sterilised water. I inoculated every jar with 1ml.
I did everything as best I could to the videos.
If anyone has any other tips I'd be stoked to hear them.
Wish me luck
[url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/16-30/967798880-image.jpg][image]http://www.shroomery.org/forums/thumbs/16-
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Bunji Fungi
Enthusiast



Registered: 04/12/16
Posts: 457
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23484079 - 07/27/16 10:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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so, your still using the heat mat?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: Bunji Fungi]
#23484189 - 07/27/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bunji Fungi said: so, your still using the heat mat?

Guy doesn't want to not fail apparently.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23484837 - 07/28/16 08:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
youareagod said: I also am NOT putting my jars on a heat mat,
I still have the heat mats in the drawer to
I did everything as best I could to the videos.
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YaMoonSun
The Double Standard


Registered: 10/23/14
Posts: 3,967
Loc: NY
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23484909 - 07/28/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I noticed that when I swapped to vermiculite for the first time I had nothing but contaminates. It was also course, and I wasn't using a pressure cooker. I think your substrate just isn't being fully sterilized and the substrate is being eaten by stow away bacteria. A buddy of mine suggested that I grind the vermiculite in a coffee grinder to get it a bit finer. Also, don't start your 90 minutes until you see steam escaping from under the lid.
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youareagod
Stranger

Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: YaMoonSun]
#23660114 - 09/19/16 09:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Finally have some shrooms growing!
So I took all the advice I got on this thread and anything I could find anywhere else and the jars (mostly) colonised. Strangely, they stopped colonising about 90% the way through. I've seen a few threads that explain why.
One of the threads said it was okay to birth and cut off the non colonised parts before the dunk and roll. I did that with every single jar (11 jars). They have all started fruiting and look great!
Here's my terrarium I'm clearly a sucker for heat mats... Negs please I have a few caps that have gone a dark red/black (as pictured). Is that because they've dropped their spore or is that a contaminant?
STOKED!

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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23660247 - 09/19/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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stoked like i was with these..

with cakes you really need to let them sit for a solid week once they are %100.
that light and shit. wtf?? get it out of there!
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: mushboy]
#23660305 - 09/19/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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That light is wayyy too close. Raise it above the tub, don't leave it hovering directly over your cakes lol
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7munkee
Berilion



Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 273
Loc: North east US
Last seen: 10 months, 30 days
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23660339 - 09/19/16 11:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Raise your FC up about 6 inches. Set it on 4 or 5 jars so air can get into the bottom. You DO have holes in the bottom, don't you?
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: 7munkee]
#23660677 - 09/20/16 04:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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As long as the light isn't generating heat you can really have it as close as you want. But yeah they are right, it doesn't -need- to be that close.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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youareagod
Stranger


Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: Mushierage]
#23666252 - 09/21/16 08:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks guys.
Will get the light out NOW. I do have holes in the bottom. What's an FC? The perlite base? It's about 'a hand width' deep as per 'PF Tek video'.
:-)
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Keep failing with PF Tek, be stoked for directions! [Re: youareagod]
#23666294 - 09/21/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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FC = fruiting chamber.
--------------------
Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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