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John123
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Gym Advice needed
#23442643 - 07/15/16 12:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hi. I've been searching through posts on this forum to put together a mass-building gym routine.
People seem to be doing an hour of cardio before or after lifting weights. I'm trying to find out what is involved in this cardio routine.
Any thoughts will be most appreciated.
Thanks. John.
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Jokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: John123]
#23442853 - 07/15/16 03:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'll hook you up later man, just finished night shift, need to sleep. In the meantime I'm sure a few others will chip in, and in order to make sure the advice works for you, tell us the following:
1. Roughly how old you are 2. Your bodyweight/bodytype (ecto/endo/meso - google)/rough bodyfat % 3. What your goals are and how much time per week you can spare for the gym
I'll tell you the most important piece of the puzzle now though; most of the work to achieve occurs out of the gym and not in it. 85% of the battle alone is diet.
Welcome along by the way.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Ahab McBathsalts
OTD Windmill Administrator




Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 35,109
Loc: Wind Turbine, AB
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If you are looking to build mass, you can limit cardio to about 1hr a week in short higher intensity sessions of 15 to 20 minutes.
It depends on how much time you have, but simply put, lift big, eat big, sleep big.
I like a 3 day split of back/chest, arms/shoulders, legs and abs/core. But that works for me on a 6 day on, 1 day rest. I don't think the program is as important as putting in the time and moving the weights.
I'll do the treadmill and start at 3 speed and turn it up by one every minute until i'm in a full sprint and dying an then drop it to 6 until my heart rate and breathing gets to normal and then walk it out. Usually takes about 15 mins.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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John123
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Registered: 07/14/16
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Hi. Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
The good news is i work at a gym, so can really put the hours in. It's a women's gym with mostly yoga equipment and those elastic band thingys, but i have the keys to the place and the owner is a really nice person.
I'm 32 years old, a hard gainer, muscle building is slow and tedious. Bodyweight is 11 stone / 154 pounds. I want to get strong as possible, time i can allocate to the gym is 4 hours a day, after the owner locks up.
Jokeshop: You mentioned diet, should i be living on meat.
Ahab: You have split your body into three parts, and are doing 6 days a week, do you train each bodypart twice a week.
Could you expand a litle on training, sets reps intensity
Thank you.
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: John123]
#23445745 - 07/16/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everyone has different goals.
You say you want to build mass but in another sentence you say you want to be as strong as possible. The two don't necessarily correlate. For an example, I work out with an ex-competing body builder....he looks huge. He has a lot of mass. He can bench triple what I can, but in many other lifts and skills, I am stronger. He talks to me and asks for my advice and tells me straight up that he wants to be as strong as me. Tells me that a lot of his mass is for show. These are his words not mine. So mass doesn't always mean you are going to be strong as fuck.
But I digress...at 154lbs you really don't need anything other than the solid advice offered by the two above.
Like they said, Lift big...constantly pushing for PR's on lifts, lift consistent, eat big, sleep big.
I highly recommend incorporating Olympic lifts in your program.
I personally think diversity is the spice of life.
Strongman training can build a lot of mass. Carries, deadlifts, squats, sled pulls/push, tire flips, etc.
But no matter what program you have going on, I think these are musts for anybody:
Front squats Back squats Deadlifts Cleans Bench press Pull-ups
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John123
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: Masked]
#23448496 - 07/17/16 01:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hi. Thanks for the replies.
I just wanted more specifics, like how many sets, reps, rest time between each set, how many times a week to train each body part, what you have given me is much appreciated but it is just general advice.
I've been googling around all the different websites and they are all telling me different things, like on this website here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8320824/fpart/all/vc/1
They are saying to train the body every day, other sites talk about bulking cycles, cutting cycles, incorporating cardio. It can be a little confusing recieving so much conflicting information.
Thank you.
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: John123]
#23448523 - 07/17/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah but we can't give you specific advice without specific goals
What exactly are you trying to achieve...exactly?
There is so many different methods of training. Everyone here thinks their way is the best. It's a message board. So of course it's all just opinion and will vary greatly
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John123
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: Masked]
#23448529 - 07/17/16 01:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm just trying to get a strong as possible.
Thanks.
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: John123]
#23448709 - 07/17/16 03:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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As strong as possible hey? Lol well that isn't very specific, not in regards to the specific details you want from us, but I'll try my best
Bulking and cutting and all that stuff you mention is for bodybuilders. Your goal isn't to body build, from what you tell me at least.
Here is my opinion for your goals:
-you need to constantly shooting for progressive overload. Constantly trying to break PR's (personal record) on all your lifts. Which means working to failure often
-you need the big compound lifts in your program. You need the deadlifts, squats, cleans and bench.
-keep rest 1-3 minutes between sets
-you need to eat big. Minimum 3000 calories on training days. Minimum. And you need to be eating at least 150-170g of protein a day. This is a must
-depending on what kind of strength you are looking for, you need diversity in your program. The standard strong lifts program is not in line with your goals
Rest is just as important as training days. Your body can't rebuild muscle efficiently without it.
I recommend doing full body workouts, 3X a week. I recommend having a strength portion where you focus on a particular lift, and then a HIIT portion to finish it off.
My training allowed me to pack on something like 12lbs in the first 7 months, going only 3x a week on average, while losing 6" off my waist in the process. I think that can be considered pretty good lean muscle gain.
There is so many opinions and everyone is different. So my way of training my not work for you and visa versa.
But if you want to be as strong as possible, it's all about progressive overload and a good diet with hefty calories
Lift big, eat big
A sample workout:
Super set:
A) bent over barbell rows (pendlay rows) - 8 to 10 reps B) bench press - 8-10 reps
(Pick a weight that has you struggling like a mother fucker to get those last couple reps)
Super set:
A) pull-ups 6-8 reps B) seated dumbell overhead press 6-8 reps
Then after a brief rest, finish the day off with something like:
5 rounds for time
10 power cleans @ 135lbs 5 front squats @ 135lbs 10 bar over burpees
Good luck 
I also would recommend you checking out the gym thread "what did you do at the gym today" that is in this forum. It will give you a great idea of the workouts we are all doing on a regular basis. And you will see a big difference in all our programs
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Edited by Masked (07/17/16 03:08 AM)
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Ahab McBathsalts
OTD Windmill Administrator




Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 35,109
Loc: Wind Turbine, AB
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: Masked]
#23449841 - 07/17/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'll usually train to hypertrophy.
Start with one big compound lift ( bench, squat or strict press) on a set of 12 at 50% my max, then a set at 65% for 8 reps, 5 for 85% and then a set of 2 or 3 near my max. Then back down to 65% until failure and 50% to failure.
The next exercise for chest could be some incline dumbbell press for 5 sets of 10 or 12.
Then dB fly for 4 sets of 10.
DB flat bench press for 4 sets of 8.
Then sets of 16 at 4 different heights on the cable cross fly and maybe some close grip bench and some dips until failure.
That is a pretty huge chest day. I would also work in a back routine into that day in the same pattern. Like weighted pull ups, low row, bentover rows, and face pulls.
Usually start with the big compound exercises work towards the secondary and accessory movements.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said: Usually start with the big compound exercises work towards the secondary and accessory movements.
Likewise. It's more enjoyable for me this way, else I exhaust myself before getting to the compound exercises.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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John123
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Registered: 07/14/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Thanks. I did check out the "what did you do at the gym today" and found that a lot of guys are doing cardio along with the weights.
Some do cardio before the weights and some do it after.
A friend told me he does full body workouts, just a few exercises per body part, so very similar to the advice you have given me, and after it he gets a light weight and does deadlifts for about ten minutes non stop.
Apparently this flushes the muscles with blood and promotes recovery.
Do you have any thoughts on this. Is this a good idea. Should i do it or is there an alternative.
Many thanks.
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sprinkles
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: John123]
#23451663 - 07/18/16 12:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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eat a pound of meat and beans at every meal, plus too lift weights. there ya go.
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: sprinkles]
#23451665 - 07/18/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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beans are a complex protein broken down only by the colon. hence gas. there ya go.
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MMG
Artesano



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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: sprinkles]
#23451699 - 07/18/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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deadlifts for 10 minutes non stop sounds counterproductive. if your shooting for strength you'll want to keep the reps a below 10 or 12 at the max. Superset by finishing off your starting weight, decreasing by 5/10 on each side and keep going until close to failure then drop another 5/10 of each side and finish off - this really get's the blood flowin. also, before attempting compound exercises get a feel for the motion - watch form videos on youtube so you don't fuck up your back deadlifting or squatting I usually do cardio for 20 minutes before hitting the weights, by then my hearts pumping and I'm ready to go. rippeotoe shows proper clean form
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: MMG]
#23451748 - 07/18/16 02:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MMG said: deadlifts for 10 minutes non stop sounds counterproductive.
Yeah. Been mulling this over in my head and I can't see how this would be a good idea. Depends what he means by 'constantly'. I like doing 10 sets of 10 reps on squats, but I'm still having a minute or two break between sets.
If I think about doing the same total number (100) squats with no break I just can't see how that's gonna help.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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I think all rep ranges and weight ranges build an all around athlete with real functional strength. Navy seals train body weight in high reps as well as low reps in the gym with heavy weight
There is a reason many, MANY armed forces members follow crossfit programming. 
I think it has its place, what he mentioned as an example, and it's worked well for me
Like touched on in my original big post, there is so many wavering opinions and keyboard warrior experts out there. And what works for one person may not work for another
One thing for certain is...OP needs to get dirty. And what I mean by that is, he is overthinking this to much. Time to get his hands on weights and start moving some lbs
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: Masked]
#23451964 - 07/18/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice info in here guys Most of my daily workouts are high rep body weight exercise or high rep low weight 15 or 25lb dumbbells.This prepared me for heavier weights in the gym. I only hit the gym 1-2 days now to challenge what I can lift and shock the system.
What kind of supps do you guys suggest? Currently using citrulline,agmatine and aakg.Starting to see some great gains with this mix. Looking to add more glutamine(my protein shake contains some) and beta alanine. What do you guys think?
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Ahab McBathsalts
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The only supplement you need is protein powder. I like pre-workout too but it isn't necessary.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said: The only supplement you need is protein powder. I like pre-workout too but it isn't necessary.
QFT.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said: The only supplement you need is protein powder. I like pre-workout too but it isn't necessary.
True not absolutely needed but I feel sometimes its the big elephant in the room when talking performance and lifting while in the gym. Creatine alone helped me shave off ten pounds and put definition to my overall look. I have stopped the creatine though because it gives me gas and the hcl just makes me need to pee a lot. lol.....GOt tired of it and switched to others.
Most protein powders that are available these days are loaded with these compounds bcaa/glutamine etc. For me there is no denying the effectiveness of pre workout supplements and compounds that maintain muscle mass. I work in a business that requires lifting ,pushing,pullling and walking every single day upto 8-12 miles a day . Plus hitting the gym and workouts at home. So I'm always looking to preserve muscle mass and to catch that extra boost that not only gives extra energy but keeps the muscle from failing with extra reps. Just started building my own pre workouts since its way cheaper just to buy in bulk. I'm such a drug nerd I already have all the stuff I need to weigh and consume.
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Ahab McBathsalts
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Registered: 11/25/02
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Unless you are at an extremely elite level, most of the supplements are just a waste of money. The supplement industry is full of photoshop, doctored and paid reviews and products made in China that don't contain what they say on the label.
If spending the money makes you feel good then keep on doing what works.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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Masked
The Nutter



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada
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- bcaas have more than enough studies to prove that supplementation is advantageous
- creatine, one of the most widely studied supplements, has very tangible and real results and more than enough good science and studies to back it
- protein is a no brainer. And the average male, depending on weight of course, should be having at LEAST 160g a day. While of course not impossible, That's pretty tough to reach that target on your average day without supplementation.
-fish oil and other omegas have proven to help joints and other tissues
...the list can go on
While of course marketing is always full of as much hot air as possible, supplements are beneficial to anyone who is putting in hard work at the gym. The trick is, to find out what works best for you, source a quality vendor and do your research.
For myself personally, protein and creatine are a must.
I think my power stack multi vitamin helped a little, recovery wise, but it was neglible. When I can afford it, I take it. When I can't, I don't notice a huge difference.
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Starstepper
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I'll hook you up later man, just finished night shift, need to sleep. In the meantime I'm sure a few others will chip in, and in order to make sure the advice works for you, tell us the following:
1. Roughly how old you are 2. Your bodyweight/bodytype (ecto/endo/meso - google)/rough bodyfat % 3. What your goals are and how much time per week you can spare for the gym
I'll tell you the most important piece of the puzzle now though; most of the work to achieve occurs out of the gym and not in it. 85% of the battle alone is diet.
Welcome along by the way.
Good call JSB. This is the best advice to start with and he is ripped so I can vouch he knows what he is talking about. Once you have your diet properly aligned your body should be burning fat for energy and naturally producing hormones that will exponentially increase your gains. This is essential. I suggest cutting grains out of your diet. JSB is like me. We eat a lot of meat. Blue steaks on the reg.
My 2 cents and just my opinion for getting bigger:
1) I strongly believe in the gym you HAVE to be doing heavy dead lifts once a week.
2) Start with just basic workouts. Then add more to it as you go. Don't do too many exercises too fast so you can heal. It's all about consistency so you don't want to be skipping workouts because you are sore. Start with heavy natural motions.
Ex: Dead lift/Rows/Pull Ups or Ex: Bench/Bar Dip/Cables
3) Me personally I only do sprints on the track once a week as well as hard swimming laps once a week for cardio (2 days a week). It helps my core get stronger and I'm finished faster.
4) Listen to your body. If something hurts or feels awkward and counter productive the try an alternative. I say this because I tore my Pectoralis Major Tendon out of my arm bone benching 350. I thought no pain no gain! Some times it means stop you idiot. Took 5 years to get my body back in order.
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: Gym Advice needed [Re: Masked] 1
#23463584 - 07/21/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is good advice masked, I just fell in love with this vendor that has everything in pure form. They actually teach me just from researching their products. When I tried creatine it was in pill form. I would like to try a pure powder creatine monohydrate before I just x it out forever because it was very effective. Almost too effective !!!lol I like adding arginine supps too because they rock all the way around.
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