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DrMushroom
Human Farmer


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 722
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 7 hours
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Exactly how effective IS a flowhood?
#23441852 - 07/14/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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flow hoods cost money, be it to buy or make. But i wonder, how effective is a flow hood exactly, and how/where does or doesnt it work?
Like, can you just sit the blower there in open space and itle work like that, or do you need confinement if some kind like walls or a box? Or is that just a matter of getting a bigger setup? What are the general weaknesses of flow hoods?
I want to guage exactly how worth it, it might be for me. Of course i recognize that contaminants can be blown off one thing and onto another, transfering like that, thats common sense, plus flames dont work, unless you have a genuinely windproof lighter, and if the filter is dirty or being bypassed, you have unclean air, but other than that where does it fall short?
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: DrMushroom]
#23441919 - 07/14/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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cant answer your other questions but I will say that I would choose a flow hood over a SAB any day.
But I use a SAB and have never used a flow hood, I just hear they're easier to work with and more reliable. But I've also heard you have to be in the room for like 45 minutes while the fan blows and helps remove contains from the air....I just remember reading that somewhere but I could be totally wrong.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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Mushiez


Registered: 04/28/14
Posts: 1,057
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: DrMushroom]
#23442068 - 07/14/16 08:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sterile technique is the number one factor for successful clean spawn. You can get clean spawn with either if the tek is good
Advantage of a hood over a sab is better physical comfort, less back pain, better visibility
Hoods work best in a small room, and like the above poster mentioned, after scrubbing the air for some time
With a hood, one needs to carefully clean around the filter frame lip with alcohol for any dust particles or contam vectors that can be blown forward toward the media
I recommend a sab to start in practicing good sterile tek. Having a hood and having bad tek is pointless really. Technique is all that matters
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
#23442074 - 07/14/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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yes you can set it up in open space. Its just a big filter wall with sterile air blowing through it. You just set it up on a table/workspace.
I was recently confused about that myself.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: DrMushroom]
#23442139 - 07/14/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DrMushroom said: flow hoods cost money, be it to buy or make. But i wonder, how effective is a flow hood exactly, and how/where does or doesnt it work?
Like, can you just sit the blower there in open space and itle work like that, or do you need confinement if some kind like walls or a box? Or is that just a matter of getting a bigger setup? What are the general weaknesses of flow hoods?
I want to guage exactly how worth it, it might be for me. Of course i recognize that contaminants can be blown off one thing and onto another, transfering like that, thats common sense, plus flames dont work, unless you have a genuinely windproof lighter, and if the filter is dirty or being bypassed, you have unclean air, but other than that where does it fall short?
They are pretty damn effective. I did a test where I left an agar plate uncovered infront of the hood for 20 minutes before wrapping it empty and nothing turned up, even a month later.
Flames certainly work, that's a non issue. If you insist on using a alcohol burner then just put it next to the hood.
Best advantage is they are really clean and so easy to use, it's no more difficult that working in open air. If I was using a SAB I simply wouldnt do the amount of work I do because it would be too tedious.
Flow hoods don't need to be run for an hour or so before using but it's good practice, if you havn't used it recently definately run it for a while.
The biggest con I can think of is the noise, they are really loud. Annoying if you're in the same room, loud enough that I wear earplugs or headphones when I use it and too loud to use at night or early morning as it would disturb the neighbors.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
Edited by weetsie (07/14/16 09:30 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: weetsie]
#23442274 - 07/14/16 10:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Absolutely every aspect of mycology can be done in a sab up til spawning. Flow hoods can't be used for every aspect. Specifically making spore prints and cleaning up contaminations on agar. Having the hood knock a bunch of contaminations downstream isn't good. With a sab there is no "downstream". Just gravity.
So people with Sabs don't need a hood. People with hoods do need sabs. All the advantages of a hood have been listed. Just saying anything with contaminations or just generally dirty should be done in a sab.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23442337 - 07/14/16 10:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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need a hood for spawn bags though
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23442388 - 07/14/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rbalzer said: need a hood for spawn bags though 
nope
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: tripdawg420]
#23442405 - 07/14/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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not need need, but to get a good plenum in there...
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: tripdawg420]
#23442462 - 07/14/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripdawg420 said:
Quote:
rbalzer said: need a hood for spawn bags though 
nope
how big is your SAB that you are able to g2g from jar to bag inside of it?
--------------------
Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: DrMushroom]
#23442597 - 07/15/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DrMushroom said: flow hoods cost money, be it to buy or make. But i wonder, how effective is a flow hood exactly, and how/where does or doesnt it work?
Like, can you just sit the blower there in open space and itle work like that, or do you need confinement if some kind like walls or a box? Or is that just a matter of getting a bigger setup? What are the general weaknesses of flow hoods?
I want to guage exactly how worth it, it might be for me. Of course i recognize that contaminants can be blown off one thing and onto another, transfering like that, thats common sense, plus flames dont work, unless you have a genuinely windproof lighter, and if the filter is dirty or being bypassed, you have unclean air, but other than that where does it fall short?
Flames do work in front of the flowhood, just a normal bic lighter will too, the flame will bend at a 90 degree angle. But you usually want your alcohol lamp or whatever to side. Flowhoods are super effective, not just for being sterile, but the work load, time of work and line of work is what is super nice and streamlined with a hood. HEPA technology is really what helped the commercial mushroom industry move forward and grow. With large companies and spawn producers like Amycel and Sylvan, it's hard to imagine them doing what they do without giant walls of HEPA filters everywhere.
Edited by Marty Mycfly (07/15/16 12:30 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23442918 - 07/15/16 04:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Absolutely every aspect of mycology can be done in a sab up til spawning. Flow hoods can't be used for every aspect. Specifically making spore prints and cleaning up contaminations on agar. Having the hood knock a bunch of contaminations downstream isn't good. With a sab there is no "downstream". Just gravity.
So people with Sabs don't need a hood. People with hoods do need sabs. All the advantages of a hood have been listed. Just saying anything with contaminations or just generally dirty should be done in a sab.
I get your point but this isn't necessarily true. I haven't used my SAB since last year and hopefully won't for many years to come. When I get molds, I try to transfer before it sporulates. If it does, it will depend on how much I need/want that specific culture. If it's some random MS, I might just chuck it but if it's a clone I have faith in, I would do the transfer regardless. I realize that this can only increase the spore load but fuck me if I ever have to use a SAB again. I prefer a few extra spores flying around than having to work in a godforsaken plastic box again. If you can tolerate working in one, cleaning up plates in a SAB is the best course of action, if you can't, you can just as easily do it with a hood.
Spore printing is easy as fuck in front of a hood though.
Anyway, to answer OP's question, a hood will be just as effective as your sterile tek. It will definitely make your life easier, SABs are hard to work with. You have to know what you are doing with both though, even though a hood is easier to work in front of.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23442951 - 07/15/16 05:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have no exp with a hood. I don't see how making mostly clean prints in front of one is possible with dirty ass caps and wind blowing all over them, but if you say you can do it no problems, that's all good. In a sab when I had my big sporeprint giveaway, I recommended everyone to start on agar. I asked everyone who got a print if they had any contaminations when germinating, not a single person had one. Pretty awesome IMO. I was sold on sab printing right then and there.
I really wouldn't open any contaminations in front of a hood tho. Not too hard to just pop the sab out :P. I guess you can do contaminated crap after you've done everything else, just don't do them first before everything else or you'll have some nasty spores spread all around the work area you're working in.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23442980 - 07/15/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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As soon as you place your cap for a print you put a container over it (bowl, small tub etc), at which point you can turn your hood off.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: weetsie]
#23442997 - 07/15/16 06:01 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23443012 - 07/15/16 06:15 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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my only problem with a hood is the motor heats the room up too much in the summer (small room). its a blessing in the winter though :P
If your someone that gets mold on a lot of plates, then I don't think a hood is for you, definitely improve ur sterile tech in an SAB before springing for a hood. if u get mold infrequently, then just do those plate transfers after everything else, right after you turn hood off. it will have scrubbed the room enough during that time so create a window in which to do any mold transfers in "open air". if its not sporulating, then u can do it when hood is running.
I like to clone wild mushrooms, so I see mold a lot on those plates. still haven't broken out the SAB tho.
I think the claim that "you need to be more careful in front of hood with technique" is misleading. u basically just switch from "nothing over top my work" to "nothing in front of my work". its not hard.
I don't think hoods are for everyone, just like electric sterilizers or microscopes aren't for everyone (and a million other examples from home hobbies BESIDES mushrooms growing). Yes, you don't need a hood to grow. but on the same token, u dont need a PC to grow either, and you don't need an AA pc, but these are all things we choose to purchase or not based on our own interests and goals and pocket change
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: blindingleaf]
#23443035 - 07/15/16 06:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well said leaf. Plenty of ways to skin the cat in this game. I am sure that a hood helps, especially for those looking to grow at a high level. But you can still do that without a hood. Frank Horrigan and eatyualive are two people who never had a hood that pumped out killer grows and did it consistently.
I imagine a hood is wonderful for pour agar and g2g with bags. But I still get by with no pour agar and LC to bags myself. It's all about comfort, workspace, available funds, and priorities.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 17 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: LocN9ne]
#23443179 - 07/15/16 07:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LocN9ne said:
Quote:
tripdawg420 said:
Quote:
rbalzer said: need a hood for spawn bags though 
nope
how big is your SAB that you are able to g2g from jar to bag inside of it?
you don really need a big box you just need to open the bag open a few inches deep pour the gm in to the top part of the bag then zip tie it i use pints gm and use only 4.5 qts of grain each bag ive used bags in 66 qt sab
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: tripdawg420]
#23443641 - 07/15/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'll have to give that a try
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23443884 - 07/15/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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If a flow hood gives you better posture, movement, better on your back. Etc...
Then you're just a retard at building a SAB. Make the SAB big enough with arm holes big and wide enough that it's no different than working in front of a hood....
I've never done pour agar in anything but my still air box
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23443895 - 07/15/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: If a flow hood gives you better posture, movement, better on your back. Etc...
Then you're just a retard at building a SAB. Make the SAB big enough with arm holes big and wide enough that it's no different than working in front of a hood....
I've never done pour agar in anything but my still air box

I sit in a chair while I work my SAB, took the back out of the equation.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23443964 - 07/15/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: If a flow hood gives you better posture, movement, better on your back. Etc...
Then you're just a retard at building a SAB. Make the SAB big enough with arm holes big and wide enough that it's no different than working in front of a hood....
I've never done pour agar in anything but my still air box
There is absolutely every difference in the world comfort wise working in front of a hood. An SAB is great, does the job perfectly, but once you learn how to work in front of a hood and can triple your work load in the time, you will never use an SAB unless your cleaning up mold on plates, and in that case like superlemonhaze said isn't that often or even worth it to fuck with those plates. I havn't pulled out my SAB for a year, and I have it in my lab just in case, but have never needed it since building the hood. One thing about a flowhood, you can leave SOOOOO many bullshit "teks" and modded lids and what not behind and just do everything with regular procedures which in the end makes life way easier. But not everybody has the space or funds for one, that's why we have SABs and sterile teks, it's the only alternative to a flowhood.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Marty Mycfly]
#23443994 - 07/15/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're talking to a guy who uses a FH A LOT with his work. He's just saying that sabs are actually really fuckin easy if you do them right. You actually have to be more sterile in front of a hood. Sabs since the air is still, as long as nothing goes over the open media, you don't need anything else. I don't use gloves, alcohol, strange modded teks, or anything really. No time to prep either. Just spray the walls and go to town.
With a big enough sab you can do just as much work as a FH too. Back in my big days I would be doing 100 jars a week, never once did I feel the need for a FH. Until I make an edible farm, I have no need for FH or AAs. BL summed it up nicely.
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23443997 - 07/15/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can honestly say, out of the last 100 jars that I've done (all in my SAB), 2 got mold and 1 was really bacterial. I'm definitely okay with that.
But I will invest in a flow hood in the future if I get the chance.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23444006 - 07/15/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: You're talking to a guy who uses a FH A LOT with his work. He's just saying that sabs are actually really fuckin easy if you do them right. You actually have to be more sterile in front of a hood. Sabs since the air is still, as long as nothing goes over the open media, you don't need anything else. I don't use gloves, alcohol, strange modded teks, or anything really. No time to prep either. Just spray the walls and go to town.
With a big enough sab you can do just as much work as a FH too. Back in my big days I would be doing 100 jars a week, never once did I feel the need for a FH. Until I make an edible farm, I have no need for FH or AAs. BL summed it up nicely.
Very true, I didn't get one until I realized I had a 20 lb. bag of oyster spawn being delivered and couldn't imagine inoculating 40 sawdust bags in an SAB, I literally ordered everything I needed that night with overnight shipping and got my hood built before I got that delivery from Aloha. Changed my life.
Edited by Marty Mycfly (07/15/16 02:34 PM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Marty Mycfly]
#23444195 - 07/15/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm a greedy motherfucker so I want all the comfortable gizmos. The AA is the one that's gonna get the better of me though, all I can do is stare.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23444213 - 07/15/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: I'm a greedy motherfucker so I want all the comfortable gizmos. The AA is the one that's gonna get the better of me though, all I can do is stare.
They are pretty, and fucking tanks.
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23448302 - 07/16/16 11:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: I have no exp with a hood.
Quote:
Mad Season said: With a big enough sab you can do just as much work as a FH
Edited by Juiceh (07/16/16 11:38 PM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Juiceh]
#23448792 - 07/17/16 04:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well they can when they get used to it. My 150L SAB fits more jars than I can fit in front of my FH. I don't like SABs personally, haven't used it since I built my hood but if you get used to it enough a FH can be pointless to own. It's all about getting the best success rate you can, if you can pull that off in a SAB, there's no reason to own a hood. Most of the folks who always use SABs like Bodi, Mads, Pasty don't even feel restricted using one whereas I feel like I'm fucking handcuffed.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Juiceh]
#23448843 - 07/17/16 05:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Juiceh said:
Quote:
Mad Season said: I have no exp with a hood.
Quote:
Mad Season said: With a big enough sab you can do just as much work as a FH

Lol! Didn't we have this exact fight like a year ago? Yeah we did.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21654428#21654428
Sure with bags FH would surely be superior which is what mushroom farms use. But with jars and agar, yeah you should easily be able to do the same amount of shit just as fast. A sab isn't restrictive, a poorly built sab is. When I work, I work like as if it isn't there lol. The arm holes are supposed to be huge. Some don't even have arm holes, they leave the entire wall of the box open. People who think FHs are so much faster and blah blah blah (which they are for bags), just sucked at sabs, and had a poorly built sab.
Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: If a flow hood gives you better posture, movement, better on your back. Etc...
Then you're just a retard at building a SAB. Make the SAB big enough with arm holes big and wide enough that it's no different than working in front of a hood....
I've never done pour agar in anything but my still air box
Edited by Mad Season (07/17/16 06:38 AM)
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DrMushroom
Human Farmer


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 722
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 7 hours
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: Mad Season]
#23449080 - 07/17/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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That actually seems rather reaffirming, i figured a flow hood was an inevitable next step or so for mushrooms. But instead i really just need to improve my technique it seems, or rather, i have the option to.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Exactly how effective IS a flowhood? [Re: DrMushroom]
#23451180 - 07/17/16 09:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, if you have luck using it, there's no reason why you should spend a couple hundred bucks on something which won't increase your success rate.
Not everyone feels the same about SABs though, some folks can't stand working in them once they get a feel for a hood. It's one of those things where it's based on preference and each individual's experience using whatever he was using. Some have no reason to build a hood while others can't go back to a SAB.
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