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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Are our memories a kind of faith? 1
#23441827 - 07/14/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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In the end, what do we have but our own experience to determine anything? In truth, we're all just going on faith that anything has anything to do with anything. Appeals to science do indeed fall into this category, ultimately.
Is our belief in our subjective memories really that different than an act of faith? We can't prove they are correct, and they're all we have to go on. Just as one doesn't know when one is crazy, how can we assess the objective validity of our memories and thoughts? Can we?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Maybe we'd rather go with it than feel the pain and uncertainty of ending it. Perhaps the reason we go on is due to a lack of faith.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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was an NPR show on the fallibility of eyewitness testimony. Lawyer got a capitol case dismissed, after a conviction - good story. So there's probably a book(s) on it. Also some very funny tests on just how folks miss all kinds of things even in the present moment. 2 in particular are somewhat famous. You can probably find them on youtube. Also many experiments on unconscious bias. It's no longer just Freud, and his hit and miss ideas about the unconscious, there are now 'tons' of lab experiments showing many 'psychological oddities'. The rubber hand illusion is another fun one. Even the out of body experience can be produced, with video and goggles.
In the East they refer to 'reality' as 'maya' or as a dream do they not? Seems appropriate...
References
selective attention test
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NOVA | Inside NOVA: Change Blindness
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https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rubber+hand+illusion
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https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=out+of+body%2C+illusion
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https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fallibility+of+eyewitness+evidence&t=hb&ia=web
Edited by laughingdog (07/14/16 08:55 PM)
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 13 hours, 46 minutes
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Just as one doesn't know when one is crazy, how can we assess the objective validity of our memories and thoughts? Can we?
Interesting parallel you propose, regarding faith.
I think it's wise not to give much weight to our thoughts and memories.
People who suffer with chronic depression and anxiety assign total validity to their thoughts and memories.
Is not all neurosis, at it's core, believing our thoughts and memories?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23442535 - 07/14/16 11:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Is not all neurosis, at it's core, believing our thoughts and memories?
this guy would agree with you
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUmIWUO-oHqQIPFbwDfTjWA
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: laughingdog]
#23442911 - 07/15/16 04:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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hard to resolve truth via experience memory faith or politics
I think the best measure is consistency, and when that fails we fall upon whatever morality we have developed.
yes life is a dream, maya.
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23443030 - 07/15/16 06:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Life is a dream but even if you were able to chance your memories about everything you have seen or did there is always a trace left behind. You one night get super mess up on Xanax then knock up five women. Just cause you don't remember doing it doesn't mean in your dream state it never happened. There a lot of mind tricks. Feed the bird
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: tump]
#23443076 - 07/15/16 06:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why does it being a dream make it any less real?
Sounds kind of lame but there's this part in the book, "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" where Harry has been "killed" by Voldemort and then Harry is in this white world with Dumbledpre all of a sudden Harry asks Dumbledore "Is this real or is it all in my head?" And Dumbledore replies "Of course it's all in your head...but why does that mean it can't be real?"
That's probably the thing that stuck out the most with me through that whole series.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
#23444519 - 07/15/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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and in this dream you are concerned about Harry and measuring the world against that consistency...
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: In the end, what do we have but our own experience to determine anything? In truth, we're all just going on faith that anything has anything to do with anything. Appeals to science do indeed fall into this category, ultimately.
Is our belief in our subjective memories really that different than an act of faith? We can't prove they are correct, and they're all we have to go on. Just as one doesn't know when one is crazy, how can we assess the objective validity of our memories and thoughts? Can we?
1. Our memories are most likely stored perceptions of medium interactions that take the form of chemical and electrical reactions within networks of neural synapses in the brain.
This is explained further in Fritz Heider's theory of object perception.
Quote:
Heider's early theorizing was an attempt to solve one of the core philosophical problems of phenomenology: the relation between sense qualities and real objects. That is, Heider asked how it was possible that we take sense qualities to be qualities of objects, given that sense qualities are "here" in the mind, whereas object qualities are "out there" in the physical world. Heider's answer began with the distinction between things (physical objects) and the media by which things affect the perceiver. For example, a ticking watch (thing) causes systematic air vibrations around it (medium), which in turn engage the eardrum (another medium) and lead to perception.
2. To determine things we have object qualities and physical tendencies. To be more precise we have these and science:
  
Without science mankind was unable to explain the Sun, wind, rain, earthquakes, volcanoes etc. Without the scientific backing of biophysics our knowledge of psychological events such as memory and experience will struggle to make progress that isn't based on fantasy.
Edited by sudly (07/16/16 08:50 AM)
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bigdoodie
it does not matter


Registered: 06/24/16
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The past just really isnt important. We we're born, moved around a little bit, now here we are. Value nothing
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: In the end, what do we have but our own experience to determine anything? In truth, we're all just going on faith that anything has anything to do with anything. Appeals to science do indeed fall into this category, ultimately.
Is our belief in our subjective memories really that different than an act of faith? We can't prove they are correct, and they're all we have to go on. Just as one doesn't know when one is crazy, how can we assess the objective validity of our memories and thoughts? Can we?
lol the mindcontrollers are onto this! They know about selective memories alright!
Some video maker did this interview vid asking New Yorkers about 9/11. Some didn't even know WHEN it happened. Others thought Sadam Hussein had done it.
propagandists know to get the soundbytes in QUICK because these tend to stick in peoples memories. This is why when there has been come corporate crime etc, and the media has 'wrongly' reported it as NOT a crime, their apology will usually be on some obscure page in bottom corner. Damage is done
Psychology is the new religion. As religious doctrine tried/tries to de-grade you, and make you feel like a worthless sinner, with a sinful body, living in a sinful world, so Psychology makes out you are like a computer-robot without freewill living in a random dead environment and you cannot even trust your own consciousness with its memories. But notice how these 'experts' rarely ever dare apply that accusation to lying politicians, many of whome will swear they didn't say something when it can be seen on video they did! Hmmm funny that. maybe it's because Psychology is the gatekeeper OF this matrix we're all oppressed under--those awre of that that is
Understand that dream and reality are a dynamic. there is no such thing as wholly subjective or wholly objective, because it is always both--a living dynamic of flowing awareness. Some of us are not that conscious or aware, because of the mindcontrol of culture. Take a psychedelic and pow you become deeply conscious
To take these insights into day to day life. To begin allowing more awareness freedom to express itself
Edited by zzripz (07/16/16 05:06 AM)
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 13 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
#23454345 - 07/18/16 09:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kush_Zombie said:
Harry asks Dumbledore "Is this real or is it all in my head?" And Dumbledore replies "Of course it's all in your head...but why does that mean it can't be real?"
Some people believe strongly that thoughts and memories are just as "real" as anything else.
I approach the issue this way . . . kinda ass backwards
What's more real, the experience of a wonderful day at the beach, or our memory and thoughts about it?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#23464746 - 07/22/16 01:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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being there
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Are our memories a kind of faith? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
#23467007 - 07/22/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kush_Zombie said: Maybe we'd rather go with it than feel the pain and uncertainty of ending it. Perhaps the reason we go on is due to a lack of faith.
I agree
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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