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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Spirituality has become common knowledge * 1
    #23441814 - 07/14/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

And by that I mean, spiritual enlightenment is becoming more common. More beings than ever before are reaching Brahman, God, Higher Self, The Oversoul, Nirvana, whatever you want to call it.

I can point to about five, and imagine how many there are we don't even know about. Back in Jesus time he was the only one...

We are also emerging from the darkness of dogmatic religion and fascist ideologies. The Way has been pointed to, verified and confirmed. It hasn't changed since ancient times when the mystery schools and eastern knowledge such as Taoism and Zen popped up.

Possibly a lot of it is owed to the psychedelic movement. People trying to change within instead of control the without. The people I see on the bus are gentle and peaceful people. The people with severe violent and mental problems are now taken care of and transformed instead of being put to death. We now live in a world in which any path can be created through will power and using the resources we have imagined up and manifested such as health care, self improvement, mindfullness and spiritual enlightenment.

We've made it pretty far. Let's keep moving.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23442335 - 07/14/16 10:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

if you would believe him, a lot of it right now is because of a man named Nick Burrin who is gonna sound like a cult leader if I talk any more about him

First Shri Mataji came and she was an avatar

then Nick Burrin found her when we was destined to and had a lot of close contact and became God realized before anyone else on Earth

as more people get closer to where he is at, then a way is opened into the human unconscious for the deities (Krishna, Adi Guru, Ganesha ...) to get in and reside

I think that's happened


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Edited by yeah (07/14/16 10:35 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23442398 - 07/14/16 10:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I can point to about five



Which five would you point to out of curiosity?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23442971 - 07/15/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I think your confused. The whole notion of becoming 'god like' however you want to call it, enlightened, a high self, an oversoul, etc etc it is all about apotheosis/becoming a god, and this is EXACTLY what the elite believe and think themselves are! Via their own belief system. And when this is believed gues what happens..................?

You start looking at others, including animals and the whole of nature as lesser, more inferior than you, because you are experiencing delusions of grandeur. You have become a massive ego!

In the Eastern belief system these kinds of ideas have created the guru-system where you get , usually males, thinking themselves god-like, and then you get followers who believe that, and will allow these people to literally get away with murder!


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23443244 - 07/15/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

dude, no

humans are definitely at a level of consciousness more complex than animals

animals have no ego... becoming enlighteneded is about letting your spirit take over your conciousness instead of your mind and ego

you really need to take a break from all spirituality forums and stuff for awhile if you didn't already know that... really, brother. Maybe look at the power of now thread before you go, but you really, really, really are mistaken about what enlightenment is.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23443245 - 07/15/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I can point to about five



Which five would you point to out of curiosity?




Ram Dass (more of a semi guru), eckhart tolle, adyashanti, mooji and my own guru Jose Librado


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23443249 - 07/15/16 08:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You still talk with him? He's the same guy you met from here and saw turn into an angel and then a devil?

Look up Nick Burrin. He's uh, there...



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Edited by yeah (07/15/16 08:34 AM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23443260 - 07/15/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Zzrip, spiritual enlightenment is actually the most humble state to be in. Enlightened masters treat all beings equal because they see the divine formless spirit underneath all ego and mask and mind.

Enlightenment is no ego and no mind.

The elites represent the old age. They too will eventually experience enlightenment.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23443357 - 07/15/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:

The elites represent the old age. They too will eventually experience enlightenment.




Is that gonna be when Kalki descends and we all judge ourselves? I mean, how are they gonna handle it?


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23443474 - 07/15/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I think spirituality has always been common knowledge. Everyone knows concepts like going with the flow and not taking things personally are recipe for a more peaceful life.  Even in elementary school, the cool kids are the chill kids.
I don't agree that there are more "enlightened masters" in the world today as I don't believe in enlightenment being a permanent shift that results in no suffering like most seekers do.


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23443644 - 07/15/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

A seeker may soon realize that perfection, in this case enlightenment, is not possible as a goal...rather its already within. Accessing that, as Yeah said, is all we can do as far as letting our spirit overcome our ego, or rather temporarily remove or disable the ego filters. I dont know any one who has "stayed" this way.

We're silly humans, but being aware of our higher self, we are able to pinpoint and work on the things that take us away from this.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23444204 - 07/15/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:

The elites represent the old age. They too will eventually experience enlightenment.




Is that gonna be when Kalki descends and we all judge ourselves? I mean, how are they gonna handle it?




According to some, this is going to be exactly it. A face to face with themselves. I imagine there would be some very intense demons there. A lot of these super high ups are not good people. What we would wish for is a brave and courageous move into the light. The grace of God can turn even a psychotic killer to love.

We also need to consider that some of these beings are not even human and enlightenment would not be possible for them in their current lifetime.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23444232 - 07/15/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
I think spirituality has always been common knowledge. Everyone knows concepts like going with the flow and not taking things personally are recipe for a more peaceful life.  Even in elementary school, the cool kids are the chill kids.
I don't agree that there are more "enlightened masters" in the world today as I don't believe in enlightenment being a permanent shift that results in no suffering like most seekers do.




Fair enough. I think that most people experience gradual enlightenment through their life and it is a never ending process. We agree on that.

I am convinced that total enlightenment is possible. I don't know for sure if it's the same thing but I liken it to an ego loss trip on mushrooms. It is a place of no form or materiality, there is no subject and object, only subject. In this state suffering doesn't matter because there is no person to suffer.

I don't know if this is the state or non state that masters are in. They all exude infinite love and bliss and emptiness that heals the beings around them.


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23444668 - 07/15/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

God-realisation, the Self, or whatever, is not the end of it, fyi (sorry if partronising).

Discovery never ends. Self-realisation (capital S) is just the door to the dawn.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23444748 - 07/15/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
dude, no

humans are definitely at a level of consciousness more complex than animals

animals have no ego... becoming enlighteneded is about letting your spirit take over your conciousness instead of your mind and ego

you really need to take a break from all spirituality forums and stuff for awhile if you didn't already know that... really, brother. Maybe look at the power of now thread before you go, but you really, really, really are mistaken about what enlightenment is.




me thinks you protest to much~eth


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23444940 - 07/15/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Alright, let's have a shitfight about who's the most enlightened. I'll play the winner of zzripz and yeah.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: viktor]
    #23445049 - 07/15/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i don't compete :levitate:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23445222 - 07/15/16 08:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I can point to about five



Which five would you point to out of curiosity?




Ram Dass (more of a semi guru), eckhart tolle, adyashanti, mooji and my own guru Jose Librado




I kind of doubt Tolle on that list. Something just doesn't feel right about him.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga] * 2
    #23445235 - 07/15/16 09:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Enlightened masters treat all beings equal because they see the divine formless spirit underneath all ego and mask and mind.




:manofapproval:

I look around social media and public avenues in my Floridian city and I see amounts of people with their heads buried in cell phones,
political discourse and the stroking of their roles played on this stage, limited to past experiences, cultural influence and future expectations.
My dense, inner ego mind thinks they are missing the beauty of the world around them, if only they could just let go and be,
and of course that is logically understandable when relayed to eastern and mystical conceptualization...

but when the consciousness transmutes the life-force into my fingers typing these words, and there is no longer an I and body to identify with,
but rather the stream of pure experience (to condense it into language) there is nothing but the eternal energy, a sacred intelligence manifesting within all perception,
there is nothing out of order for it is all interconnected and weaved within the tapestry of now, like ripples and waves on the ocean of feeling.

You are all truly loved, and I will be one to admit that I struggle with my spiritual maintenance. I have a propensity towards addiction in many shades which tends to cloak my intention.
Yet, the cinder of truth and god will burn forever and I hope we as inhabitants of earth can reach a harmonious life with each other, animals and all the green magic we rely on for the breath of insight,
and when the moment is here where the organism fails, and we fade into our final dream, we will smile wider than the grand canyon knowing we were already home.


--------------------
I am that, which is.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: Khancious]
    #23445243 - 07/15/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I would say people are claiming to reach such heights, I mean people have certainly faked it before and had followers believe and hang on their words.

TO me it still seems like religion, only with a new paint job. Salvation if you follow and misery and pain if you don't. Same rhetoric.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23445271 - 07/15/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I would say people are claiming to reach such heights, I mean people have certainly faked it before and had followers believe and hang on their words.

TO me it still seems like religion, only with a new paint job. Salvation if you follow and misery and pain if you don't. Same rhetoric.




The lime-light of attention may fuel a certain makeup of neurogenetics or "ego". And perhaps it does seem a bit clique or cultish.

Though from what I've seen life become within a flash of time, I think it's much simpler. Compassion and curiosity growing from the roots within here, reflected onto the seemingly external realm of space and matter, now.


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I am that, which is.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23445299 - 07/15/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:

We also need to consider that some of these beings are not even human and enlightenment would not be possible for them in their current lifetime.





definitely possible

much the same way that chickens can't get enlightened I would assume that vampires and other non human things in human skin can't either.

I think they are close to being thoughtless all the time but their greed and ego get's them to act in typical demonic fashion... if the slightest thing upsets them in any way they can't really cope with it well (or at least in any balanced way)


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Edited by yeah (07/15/16 09:41 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23445979 - 07/16/16 05:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I just think there is a monumental mis-take with this 'enlightement' ideal that has been pushed as some alternative way to....tradition religion and materialism. It of course happened in the '60s. The youth discovered LSD and then influential groups and individuals like the Beatles, and Timothy Leary went on about gurus, and 'pushing the envelope' trying to attain nirvana etc. But I just see it as a phony load of old tosh

IE usually males with beards pretending they are on a superior level to you--the formula being 'you lack: they got what you lack' hence your stuck trying to get it!


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23446252 - 07/16/16 08:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Have you ever read The Power of Now? If you had and you actually listened you wouldn't be telling me it's about my having something that you don't

it's about you knowing that you already have it


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23446383 - 07/16/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Have you ever read The Power of Now? If you had and you actually listened you wouldn't be telling me it's about my having something that you don't

it's about you knowing that you already have it




I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with him in a sense. The Power of Now was pretty much that. He knows something you don't and as long as you don't have it you will be miserable, but as long as you listen to him and pay up he will tell you how to get there. Sounds too much like previous scams when you think about it.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23447012 - 07/16/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
He knows something you don't and as long as you don't have it you will be miserable, but as long as you listen to him and pay up he will tell you how to get there. Sounds too much like previous scams when you think about it.




I'm guessing you never went to university and listened to someone who evidently did know what they were talking about. Educating people is not a 'scam'.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: viktor]
    #23447101 - 07/16/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
He knows something you don't and as long as you don't have it you will be miserable, but as long as you listen to him and pay up he will tell you how to get there. Sounds too much like previous scams when you think about it.




I'm guessing you never went to university and listened to someone who evidently did know what they were talking about. Educating people is not a 'scam'.




"Education" is the term people like that use to mask inconsistencies in their words. It's also quite convenient that when their advice falls short the problem is with you and not them. Any critique of their ideas just gets brushed away as "ego" which seems way to convienient. It makes them immune to criticism in a sense and I can't support that.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23447113 - 07/16/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Have you ever read The Power of Now? If you had and you actually listened you wouldn't be telling me it's about my having something that you don't

it's about you knowing that you already have it




LOL that is the same thing different trick, because if you 'knew' you wouldn't be listening to the boring old fart


Edited by zzripz (07/16/16 03:14 PM)


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Offlinerustygrape
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: Khancious]
    #23447242 - 07/16/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Khancious said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Enlightened masters treat all beings equal because they see the divine formless spirit underneath all ego and mask and mind.




:manofapproval:

I look around social media and public avenues in my Floridian city and I see amounts of people with their heads buried in cell phones,
political discourse and the stroking of their roles played on this stage, limited to past experiences, cultural influence and future expectations.
My dense, inner ego mind thinks they are missing the beauty of the world around them, if only they could just let go and be,
and of course that is logically understandable when relayed to eastern and mystical conceptualization...

but when the consciousness transmutes the life-force into my fingers typing these words, and there is no longer an I and body to identify with,
but rather the stream of pure experience (to condense it into language) there is nothing but the eternal energy, a sacred intelligence manifesting within all perception,
there is nothing out of order for it is all interconnected and weaved within the tapestry of now, like ripples and waves on the ocean of feeling.

You are all truly loved, and I will be one to admit that I struggle with my spiritual maintenance. I have a propensity towards addiction in many shades which tends to cloak my intention.
Yet, the cinder of truth and god will burn forever and I hope we as inhabitants of earth can reach a harmonious life with each other, animals and all the green magic we rely on for the breath of insight,
and when the moment is here where the organism fails, and we fade into our final dream, we will smile wider than the grand canyon knowing we were already home.




Wow!!


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23447922 - 07/16/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

well dude I straight up told you that you are already enlightened so I don't quite understand where you think my implied exclusivity is coming from


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23448841 - 07/17/16 05:30 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
well dude I straight up told you that you are already enlightened so I don't quite understand where you think my implied exclusivity is coming from




errrm you don't even know me...? All you see is typed text. you don't know what I am


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23448968 - 07/17/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You're gonna get cancer if you keep thinking that way.. that you are your body...


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Edited by yeah (07/17/16 07:38 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23449199 - 07/17/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
You're gonna get cancer if you keep thinking that way.. that you are your body...




That is typical New Age speak! IE you blame people for having cancer, etc.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23449595 - 07/17/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)



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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23450064 - 07/17/16 02:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

He may not know your ego, your conditioning or your past but all of us share one thing - consciousness. Or you could call it Awareness. The highest observer.. the same essence that has never changed since you came into this world.

I don't have to know your phone number or your address to know that like all beings you suffer and desire happiness. That you have thoughts and senses and imagination. If I'm getting too personal, stop me. Actually, I'm being impersonal because I'm not referring to your personality at all!


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23450297 - 07/17/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

My point is this: Why the hell would you pay money and for his talks (I have heard the fees are very expensive!) and buy books of this mr Tolle --who says 'your all enlightened' IF you think you are? (whatever THAT means). What is the point?

can someone answer this please?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23450366 - 07/17/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If he really does charge people to hear his talks, well, I'm not for that. I hesistated to put him on the list of enlightened because I don't know him too well although I read his book A New Earth and was fascinated by his idea of the pain body and other insights. I haven't watched enough of his videos to know for sure if his presence alone can transform the beings around him. I did get some proof of this when I watched a video of him sitting on a bench with a young man, perhaps in his late teens or early 20s. Eckharte sat there very still and pointed out to the nature around them - at the animals, the plants, the other beings around them. You could see on the young man's face a realization or shift of consciousness dawn on him and he became in awe.

"Do you feel that your body is alive?" Eckharte asked him
"Yeah!" he replied in a stunned fashion.

The young man asks if he can stay like this all the time and still do human things like have a girlfriend or keep a job.
Here's the video:


I don't think he ever said that you are enlightened if you think you are. I'm pretty sure he would actually say that thoughts are NOT what we are and we are often too attached to thoughts or images of ourselves.


--------------------


Edited by EternalCowabunga (07/17/16 04:09 PM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23450726 - 07/17/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Pretty much, growing at an exponential rate.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23456613 - 07/19/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

'as you sit here, can you watch things without making an interpretation of it'? or words to that effect?

this is mindfkery!! Of COURSE we interpret when we observe. Subjectivity and objectivity are a dynamic. You cannot be wholly objective and not experience your own unique interpretation of what you observe and feel

he seems to separate individual awareness from nature which itself is aware

LOOK what he is doing! he is using words --guru-babble--to make out that how he thinks he observes is what you need to do to get what he is claiming he has

ohh the protestant work eithis. According to mr Tolle you cannit relax but MUST be 'alert' or else you 'drift off into thinking'. So there is his warning against what is completely natural. We are always thinking. But he is saying this is wrong and lazy. I am thinking what a con man he is. Thinking is handy!

ending at 3:44. I have wasted enough time with this stuff. I am So familiar with this spiel lol
All this talk he says you are already enlightened. If that were so he wouldn't be preaching his guru-babble to this young dude. Mindfkin his head.

Quote:

Eckhart Tolle is on the Rich Man’s List. Is this the price of enlightenment?

*Tuition price only. Accommodations and meals package is additional.

Eckhart and Kim Eng charged $995.00 (£600, €725) for their tuition of participants for their five day retreat, plus sales of books, DVDs, calendars and so on. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to work out how much money they receive if 500 attended. They could have made for themselves about half a million dollars in five days. Participants booked through Eckhart Teachings to pay to stay in nearby hotels, ranging from $500 to $1000 for the five nights – a walking distance to the huge conference hall to listen to Eckhart. If participants make their own housing arrangements, then they pay Eckhart Teachings, a “commuter fee of $295 including meals and yoga mat.” Eckhart gave a two day retreat in Australia in 2011 to hundreds of people. Eckhart charged $695.00 for two days of intuition. It’s seems to be a money spinning guide to enlightenment.

Public Talks

Eckhart charges individuals between the cheapest seats at £50 to £75 for the “platinum seats” to listen to him give a two talk with questions and answers. In an evening programme in a theatre in the East End of London in October, 2013, more than 2500 people attended.  It meant that the commercial arm of Eckhart Teachings probably received around £150,000 gross from tickets sales, plus sales of his books, his DVDs, his calendars, cards etc. Costs include rent of the theatre for the evening etc.




Yeah, I bet when he was sitting on his park bench if that was even true, he was thinking alright. How to make a buck outta peoples gullibility!

Eckhart Tolle--one of my Favorite Hypocrites


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23456688 - 07/19/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It's his fault he got rich for providing all of his wisdom in book form?

The talks are for the people who want extra help. All you need to know from him he has already given away for free.

He allows his books to remain uploaded in PDF form all throughout the internet. Google will easily reveal this to you.

You clearly have a prejudice against the man because of your own misconceptions about the nature of self and form.


--------------------


Edited by yeah (07/19/16 04:19 PM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23456696 - 07/19/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Enlightenment is not what we all desire and we do not become fulfilled through enlightenment. It isnt necessary to achieving the God mind. It may at the time seem like its the top and that all theres left to do is wait to die, but through the God mind, we realize that we are consciousness and that we are all the same person and we are all of the animals, all of the aliens in existence, and we are truly eternal. The ego is not impossible to get rid of, its what's portrayed as a demon in media, and the only way to get rid of the ego is through God. We have no personalities, or emotions, we have taken pieces of the personalities of those who we admire and glued them together to create our self. When we lack our true state of being, the only thing that makes us feel alive is belittling other beings


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23457160 - 07/19/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Eckharte does indeed let you download free PDFs of his book. Although I won't deny that those prices are outrageous.

Quote:

'as you sit here, can you watch things without making an interpretation of it'? or words to that effect?

this is mindfkery!! Of COURSE we interpret when we observe. Subjectivity and objectivity are a dynamic. You cannot be wholly objective and not experience your own unique interpretation of what you observe and feel

he seems to separate individual awareness from nature which itself is aware

LOOK what he is doing! he is using words --guru-babble--to make out that how he thinks he observes is what you need to do to get what he is claiming he has

ohh the protestant work eithis. According to mr Tolle you cannit relax but MUST be 'alert' or else you 'drift off into thinking'. So there is his warning against what is completely natural. We are always thinking. But he is saying this is wrong and lazy. I am thinking what a con man he is. Thinking is handy!

ending at 3:44. I have wasted enough time with this stuff. I am So familiar with this spiel lol
All this talk he says you are already enlightened. If that were so he wouldn't be preaching his guru-babble to this young dude. Mindfkin his head.




I believe that it is ego that makes us feel like our perceptions are wholly unique. The tree that you see is the same tree I see. The difference is all the associations, thoughts, feelings and emotions that tree brings up. Clearly if we both sat down to watch a movie we would come away with some similar thoughts and probably some very different thoughts.

The movie is still the movie without our interpretation of it.

You don't like what he says, but it sounds like to me  you think he has a huge ego.. when really, have you ever heard him say "haha, you guys suck. you wish you could be like me." No, he is humble and is dedicated to service to others. I honestly don't believe he was motivated by money when he wrote Power of Now or A New Earth. He has hit upon a state of being that he feels he must share.

You don't believe that such a state is genuine. That's fine. My experience tells me that it is totally genuine. Most of what he says I can confirm from past experiences.

By alert he doesn't mean productive or full of effort.. he means that we must be vigilant against the tricks of the mind.. the tricks of the ego to perpetuate itself through desires and attachments. The state he is talking about is our natural state, our birthright. It is a state of no effort, super simple awareness.. what we would experience if we overcame the ego.

I'm sorry you feel that this is a waste of time. You aren't ready for these lessons yet. When he says we are enlightened, he is referring to our natural state, underneath all the ego clouds. I don't see him preaching at all... I mean, like, not at all. I don't see how you can compare him to a preacher. Is he loud and dominant? No, he is humble and reserved. Is he demanding shit from his audience? No, he is gently guiding those who wish for guidance. It's sad that all you saw in that video was that he was mindfucking the kid when if you looked without your bias you would see that he set this kid free and probably changed his life forever.

:cheers:


--------------------


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23458809 - 07/20/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I believe that it is ego that makes us feel like our perceptions are wholly unique. The tree that you see is the same tree I see. The difference is all the associations, thoughts, feelings and emotions that tree brings up. Clearly if we both sat down to watch a movie we would come away with some similar thoughts and probably some very different thoughts.

The movie is still the movie without our interpretation of it.




I have no problem WITH having ego. I do not mind being a unique being who has his likes and dislikes, but that these likes and dislikes are not set in stone but are always changing. This week I may not like some form of music, but next week I find I do.

What you and Tolle seem to be against is uniqueness which I find a horrible concept! I mean, look, picture a beach and full of pebbles, yet not two pebbles are exactly the same. Nor two leaves on a tree etc etc. Nature births uniqueness. YET with something so fluid and ever-changing like the psyche you want yours to be a clone of mine and vice verse? And you think this is 'enlightenment'? Yuk!

The movie cannot be divorced from our relationship with it. How we live it. MY life experience may have included something I experience in the movie so my interpretation OF it will be very different from yours if you didn't experience what I did, and/or in the way I did. My unique way

Quote:

By alert he doesn't mean productive or full of effort.. he means that we must be vigilant against the tricks of the mind.. the tricks of the ego to perpetuate itself through desires and attachments. The state he is talking about is our natural state, our birthright. It is a state of no effort, super simple awareness.. what we would experience if we overcame the ego.




He is selling you a product he is sellin'. He is saying: how you observe and feel reality isn't right. it has gone wrong. It is because of ego. I have got rid of MY ego, and can help you get rid/see through (how ever he phrases it) yors so you can be like me--enlightened. As I said , this is a typical ploy/formula of 'I HAVE. You lack. I can give you what you lack.
He/they have to make you fell you lack, and then offer his solution/product. This is same formula all organized religions and corporate advertizers do! it is: FEAR/SOLUTION

Quote:

I'm sorry you feel that this is a waste of time. You aren't ready for these lessons yet.




Which is patronizing. it is more that I have been there and bought the Tshirt, and am trying to warn you about this sht.

Preachers and cult leaders do not have to be shouting about fire and brimstone. There are all types, some very soft spoken like this guy who changed his name to 'Ekhart' to associate it with Meister Ekhart the German mystic--a brand choice no doubt that seems to have paid off well for him--oh he of 'no desires and attachments. LOL:tongue:


Edited by zzripz (07/20/16 08:28 AM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23459350 - 07/20/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not against uniqueness. Life would be boring as hell if every person was the same. I'm against the ego which actually makes us more like each other.

Our uniqueness is what makes us beautiful but it won't be found in the ego.
The ego functions pretty much the same in each person. The blame games, the projections, the guilt and shame and rage...

u have not gotten what I said right. The fact that everything is changing is exactly his point. If everything is always changing then the ego is an illusion. You try to find some identity beyond thought and imagination and you find nothing.

Of course the movie can be divorced from our relationship to it. Just like you can walk out of a movie, you have a choice to not follow ego. It's a choice we make. Your story is not who you really are. The story is just a story. How could a story be who you truly are? I'm trying to point to something beyond your story to your real self. Pure consciousness. We can have it and still be unique just like you can be wearing the same hat as someone else but still be YOUR SELF.

I don't want you to believe what I believe or have the same thoughts. My interest is for both of us to be our highest selves.

He never said once that how we feel isn't right. What he does say is that what we feel can give us clues to what our ego's are and do. And is it so impossible for someone to lose their ego? Does he ever tell anyone that they are lacking something? Try to find even one instance where he says this. Enlightenment is a surrender or letting go, not an addition of something but more of a removal.

Where do you see him selling fear? Does he talk about being punished in the afterlife or there being a devil.. I'm curious if you have actually given a chance to watch him speak for half an hour without projecting all your values and morals on him. He is so gentle and humble yet you accuse him of being manipulative and deceitful and greedy. Maybe you can't believe yet that it is possible to remove desire and attachment. It's a goal for most of humanity.

Is it possible that he is truly helping people and one of the only few beings who is providing truly valuable guidance of moving away from ego? The world is at its most perilous time and moving away from ego is what we need most at this moment.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23459486 - 07/20/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Eckharte does indeed let you download free PDFs of his book. Although I won't deny that those prices are outrageous.

Quote:

'as you sit here, can you watch things without making an interpretation of it'? or words to that effect?

this is mindfkery!! Of COURSE we interpret when we observe. Subjectivity and objectivity are a dynamic. You cannot be wholly objective and not experience your own unique interpretation of what you observe and feel

he seems to separate individual awareness from nature which itself is aware

LOOK what he is doing! he is using words --guru-babble--to make out that how he thinks he observes is what you need to do to get what he is claiming he has

ohh the protestant work eithis. According to mr Tolle you cannit relax but MUST be 'alert' or else you 'drift off into thinking'. So there is his warning against what is completely natural. We are always thinking. But he is saying this is wrong and lazy. I am thinking what a con man he is. Thinking is handy!

ending at 3:44. I have wasted enough time with this stuff. I am So familiar with this spiel lol
All this talk he says you are already enlightened. If that were so he wouldn't be preaching his guru-babble to this young dude. Mindfkin his head.




I believe that it is ego that makes us feel like our perceptions are wholly unique. The tree that you see is the same tree I see. The difference is all the associations, thoughts, feelings and emotions that tree brings up. Clearly if we both sat down to watch a movie we would come away with some similar thoughts and probably some very different thoughts.

The movie is still the movie without our interpretation of it.

You don't like what he says, but it sounds like to me  you think he has a huge ego.. when really, have you ever heard him say "haha, you guys suck. you wish you could be like me." No, he is humble and is dedicated to service to others. I honestly don't believe he was motivated by money when he wrote Power of Now or A New Earth. He has hit upon a state of being that he feels he must share.

You don't believe that such a state is genuine. That's fine. My experience tells me that it is totally genuine. Most of what he says I can confirm from past experiences.

By alert he doesn't mean productive or full of effort.. he means that we must be vigilant against the tricks of the mind.. the tricks of the ego to perpetuate itself through desires and attachments. The state he is talking about is our natural state, our birthright. It is a state of no effort, super simple awareness.. what we would experience if we overcame the ego.

I'm sorry you feel that this is a waste of time. You aren't ready for these lessons yet. When he says we are enlightened, he is referring to our natural state, underneath all the ego clouds. I don't see him preaching at all... I mean, like, not at all. I don't see how you can compare him to a preacher. Is he loud and dominant? No, he is humble and reserved. Is he demanding shit from his audience? No, he is gently guiding those who wish for guidance. It's sad that all you saw in that video was that he was mindfucking the kid when if you looked without your bias you would see that he set this kid free and probably changed his life forever.

:cheers:



theres no reason to grade our ego on any scale. If we know why things happen then there's no harm in offering some clarity, it can be accepted or declined, but its truth that we all want. The ego is the reason we see each other as different, but the truth is that we are all the same person, and it is only possible to see that through turiya or what is called the God mind, and the connection between all beings is what God is.  (our natural state of mind). there is some misinterpretation with enlightenment and it truly is not necessary to develop the God mind, there is a reason why it is said that Lucifer brought enlightenment. To become enlightened is not to find God but many of us who reach enlightenment will claim to be our own God, and can fuel our ego. Enlightenment at its peak puts us in a heavenly zone of awareness and then when we come back down we think that all theres left to do is wait to die and that weve hit the top. but there is a fourth state of consciousness beyond awakening, and it is where we see that we're all the same person and that we truly are eternal, and that we are capable of all-knowing. We do not need to be bashful towards people who do not agree with us. Theres no logic in arguing our opinion other than to belittle people. The only person who is against us is ourself


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23459915 - 07/20/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Of course the movie can be divorced from our relationship to it. Just like you can walk out of a movie, you have a choice to not follow ego. It's a choice we make.




So you are claiming you have made this choice and now are ego~less?

Quote:

I'm trying to point to something beyond your story to your real self. Pure consciousness.




So now you see yourself in the role of my guru?


Quote:

I don't want you to believe what I believe or have the same thoughts. My interest is for both of us to be our highest selves.




This makes no sense at all. I am saying that not to ask you to explain more to 'help me understand'. I am telling you it is nonsense.

Quote:

He never said once that how we feel isn't right. What he does say is that what we feel can give us clues to what our ego's are and do. And is it so impossible for someone to lose their ego? Does he ever tell anyone that they are lacking something? Try to find even one instance where he says this. Enlightenment is a surrender or letting go, not an addition of something but more of a removal.




Om myy...he is assuming an authority which implies he knows and you do not know and so he 'points'. get it? :shocked:
Quote:


Maybe you can't believe yet that it is possible to remove desire and attachment. It's a goal for most of humanity.




have you done it?


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23460082 - 07/20/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Of course the movie can be divorced from our relationship to it. Just like you can walk out of a movie, you have a choice to not follow ego. It's a choice we make.




So you are claiming you have made this choice and now are ego~less?

Quote:

I'm trying to point to something beyond your story to your real self. Pure consciousness.




So now you see yourself in the role of my guru?


Quote:

I don't want you to believe what I believe or have the same thoughts. My interest is for both of us to be our highest selves.




This makes no sense at all. I am saying that not to ask you to explain more to 'help me understand'. I am telling you it is nonsense.

Quote:

He never said once that how we feel isn't right. What he does say is that what we feel can give us clues to what our ego's are and do. And is it so impossible for someone to lose their ego? Does he ever tell anyone that they are lacking something? Try to find even one instance where he says this. Enlightenment is a surrender or letting go, not an addition of something but more of a removal.




Om myy...he is assuming an authority which implies he knows and you do not know and so he 'points'. get it? :shocked:
Quote:


Maybe you can't believe yet that it is possible to remove desire and attachment. It's a goal for most of humanity.




have you done it?




Never said I was ego-less, I've only started my journey but I think I can step back a little more and see the ego for what it is, at times. I am not your guru, just a guy who is explaining to you that there is more to you than your story. The story can only exist in the mind - once mind has been overcome, there is no longer a need to create stories.

It makes sense to me. You can tell me it's nonsense, you're not an authority in my life. We may be sailors in a ship, but we don't decide the current of the waves. Ego must give way or surrender to Self.

I am repeating these things because I am pointing to the fact that Eckhart is not a charlatan, but a speaker of truth. He comes from a place of wisdom, not deciet or pride. I can't prove this to you in anyway but to suggest you examine him more closely.

He doesn't assume authority, he HAS authority because his words come from a source of truth.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23461327 - 07/21/16 12:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

"I" "you" "me" "him" "her" "he" "she" "them" and "they" should not be used unless it is unavoidable. It does no good to make an example out of anyone, it reinforces the idea that we are different. And speaking of ourselves, either to gain sympathy or to gain admiration, is to find empowerment from either having an excuse to depend on everyone else and let the rest of us carry th weight, or to try and make others jealous. We are literally all the same person. There is no such thing as a personality, it is entirely ego. at true state of being, we are fully conscious, confident, content, emotionless, and observant. even to laugh is to fail to see things for what it really is. It is resentment of an idea, being, or object, and to smile is to be prideful.
Greed, pride, lust, wrath, sloth, gluttony, and envy all fuel the ego. This is all that we need to know to reach the fourth state of consciousness.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23461461 - 07/21/16 02:27 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

When I think en-light-en-ment I think of light being Truth.  That's all.  Truth is horrifying.

What of teaming up with legit entities once you make it beyond the 'voices...'  that can interact with other people without them knowing??


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23461672 - 07/21/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:


Never said I was ego-less, I've only started my journey but I think I can step back a little more and see the ego for what it is, at times. I am not your guru, just a guy who is explaining to you that there is more to you than your story. The story can only exist in the mind - once mind has been overcome, there is no longer a need to create stories.





You are going onto me that there is an actual state of egoless which, you stress,  we all should strive for, including me. You get this idea from Eckhart Tolle, true? Do you agree with this?
You however claim not to have gotten rid of (seen through, however you want to term it) of your ego. So in effect you are speaking from a state of non-experience of such a phenomenon, if it even exists. Do you agree with this also?

Quote:

It makes sense to me. You can tell me it's nonsense, you're not an authority in my life. We may be sailors in a ship, but we don't decide the current of the waves. Ego must give way or surrender to Self.




yet ironically you assume an authority over mine informing me I am not right as I am because I have an ego! See the problem with this? See how you are assuming a position of superiority, and Tolle even more so because he suggest he has no ego, whereas you admit your still 'working on it'. Can you not see this is all nonesense?

Quote:

I am repeating these things because I am pointing to the fact that Eckhart is not a charlatan, but a speaker of truth. He comes from a place of wisdom, not deciet or pride. I can't prove this to you in anyway but to suggest you examine him more closely.

He doesn't assume authority, he HAS authority because his words come from a source of truth.




So you keep saying, but I very much question it.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23461689 - 07/21/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Tolle probably just does some subtle Reiki if his energy is strong enough and trances them out...  Wow.  That be like hypnotism, yo!!

The claim that there are like 5 enlightened people...  Like 5(?)  LOL

$Rich$


Edited by FishOilTheKid (07/21/16 05:51 AM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #23461694 - 07/21/16 05:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)



Oh yeah!


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23461745 - 07/21/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Back in Jesus time he was the only one...




What are you on about??

Jesus got over-ruled and nailed by Mithra and Sol Invictus... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus ;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithra

What about Horus?  Egypt yo?  Osiris/Isis?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

The Eleusinian mysteries? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries

Christianity still irks me...  The one and only True God is quite the claim.:lol:

If he be the Morning Star, that's Lucifer and he was executed for revealing secrets of Bread/Fruits (Eucharist) to the lay people.  An archetype.  He may have been an incarnation of some sort of Logos but that's like Algebra with trees and leaves and such!:wtfsonic:

Still...  Like all the previous sun gods rolled into one that is...  Yes a food.  Yay.  Archetypal but yes very literal.  Like when we gonna figure this out...??  Takes ages.  And we get the idol still.  The idol is the man.  The forces of nature Good and Evil, the vesica pisces is the real treat...  'To see as they do knowing/experiencing the difference then want to live forever.'

A fountain of living waters:











Eat up.  Fill your own cup.



Edited by FishOilTheKid (07/21/16 06:59 AM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #23462461 - 07/21/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Christianity still irks me...  The one and only True God is quite the claim.:lol:

If he be the Morning Star, that's Lucifer and he was executed for revealing secrets of Bread/Fruits (Eucharist) to the lay people.  An archetype.  He may have been an incarnation of some sort of Logos but that's like Algebra with trees and leaves and such!:wtfsonic:

Still...  Like all the previous sun gods rolled into one that is...  Yes a food.  Yay.  Archetypal but yes very literal.  Like when we gonna figure this out...??  Takes ages.  And we get the idol still.  The idol is the man.  The forces of nature Good and Evil, the vesica pisces is the real treat...  'To see as they do knowing/experiencing the difference then want to live forever.'

A fountain of living waters:




I think we can figure it out...now

'Jesus' was. like other mythical characters such as Indra, Shiva, Krishna, Quetzalcoatl, etc etc really a covert personification of psychedelic fungi. PARTICULARLY fungi, because to the ancient mind, which didn't have access to microscopic technology they were ignore-ant about mushroom spores! Mushroom spores are of course microscopic and is how mushrooms seed themselves. But the solar phallic myth-ers believed that they came miraculously from above with thunderstorms. And this is how the story of the Virgin Mary being impregnated with 'God's sperm' comes from. IE she represents the Earth as passive receptacle, and it was believed that solely male seed was the active principle in conception and birth, much more so from their masculine phallic solar God

So the mushrooms therefore was their 'God', coming from above, and taking on flesh, and was the 'Logos', because this mythic' set&setting, being solar phallic, and thus dualistically assuming 'spirit' is transcendent (and 'masculine') and superior to nature, seen as feminine and inferior, is more into 'channeling'--contacting a 'spirit', 'God', the 'Father'. Looking for a saviour and guidance/prophecy from above rather than ecstatic immersion, and transcendence of ego, realizing a sense of merging with the natural world and others.

The lunar based mythical Goddess religion was completely different. there was/is not duality between 'spirit' and nature, between an 'above' and a 'below', or betweeen masculine and feminine, and thus the psychedelic fungi are fruits of the Goddess, seed or no seed. They were the son/lovers of the Goddess because of the ecstatic connected- ness you can feel with nature and others which is a deep sense, and often VERY erotic and sensual

Notice how the solar phallic belief systems are usually very puritanical when it comes to sexuality, and eroticism, especially Christianity. This is because they intellectually and mythically divide 'spirit' from the 'body' and nature.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23463363 - 07/21/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What about Father Sun/sky (penis) and Mother Earth (Vagina)  ??

The mushroom fruit is seen as a breast, a penis penetrating a vagina, a cup, one winged disk, the ankh, the phoenix, the scarab, amrita, ambrosia, nectar of the Gods, and God's flesh, or God in the flesh literally.

But get it: Volvo.  Vulva with 'Os' to make it masculine with a male pointed sign.  A penis vagina.

The hermaphroditic God.  What about the Rebis?


One small round thing or womb/egg, a mirror (perhaps depicting that you are nature), Eucharist, a solar disk, a man/woman, one foot, wings (one red)  ??


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23463663 - 07/21/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
animals have no ego





your statement is easy to dispel, as humans are animals


also, where do you get that non-humans have no ego?


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: demiu5]
    #23463691 - 07/21/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:

your statement is easy to dispel, as humans are animals






Are you sure?


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23463838 - 07/21/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

am i sure that humans are animals?

yes



just another species on this planet


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: demiu5]
    #23463853 - 07/21/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Put your hand in the box.





Edited by yeah (07/21/16 08:10 PM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23463949 - 07/21/16 08:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't get the idea of egoless from Tolle. I got it from an ego loss experience on shrooms and I assume this is the state that spiritual teachers point to. Correct, I have never been in that state (besides on that one shroom trip) so I can't be sure this is where the spiritual teachers are coming from.

Anyway, clearly we disagree so, so be it :cheers:


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: demiu5] * 1
    #23464872 - 07/22/16 04:34 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you spend any time around a house cat you can easily spot the little kitty ego.  They get noticeably embarrassed when they trip up ungracefully.  They are proud creatures.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #23464895 - 07/22/16 05:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
If you spend any time around a house cat you can easily spot the little kitty ego.  They get noticeably embarrassed when they trip up ungracefully.  They are proud creatures.






absolutely.


chipmunks/squirrels have noticeable ego, bears, raccoons, and so on


Yeah doesn't have a rebuttal and chooses to post shallow photos/videos


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: demiu5]
    #23464942 - 07/22/16 06:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

there is this confusion that has come from the psychophysical Eastern philosophical belief systems that makes out the 'ego' is wrong, and there is a possibility to get rid of it. But yet again this is dualistic thinking which conceptualizes the permananence of one part of a whole dynamic, eg:

ego/egolessness or termed selfish/selflessness where it is presumed you can become the latter part of the dynamic all-the-time.
This is the promise these gurus hold out, whilst making out they are without ego. And what this does is keep the believers in this in a state of ongoing dissatisfaction with their natural state which is always dynamic, and never one-sided! This manufactured dissatisfaction is what keeps these charlatans businesses ticking over, because people give them money for books and talks, hoping hoping 'someday' they will reac that goal convincingly promised them by their chosen saviour. Just round the next corner, then the next. And of course there will also be placebo affects and delusions where followers will feel superior to those who they judge are 'all ego' whilst they are, so the believe, egoless, or partway there.

This is not to say that extreme states of ego are good! Extreme states are the heroic ego which is part of the warrior militarized culture we are all oppressed under. This is the sense of ego which resists feeling, and a sense of communion with nature. A great book which goes into this is:
Quote:

From a Broken Web, by Catherine Keller:

'We belong to the culture of these conquerors, whose activities do not signify the perogative or even the priomordial choice of any generic "male", but of a set of migrants who emerged victorious...The hero-warrior lives a transcendence without immanence, a separative onness based on opposition to the other...In contrast to the soluble self, which dissolves into relation, the separative self makes itself the absolute in that it absolves itself from relation...
The in~flowing other must feel to a defensive ego like an aggressive intrusion, a threat to its self-containment. So it will re-double its fortifications and can justify its own aggression as defense...
The Cartesian subject, as "thinking thing" that walls itself into a formal self-identity to which it always transcendtally returns represents perhaps the most sophisticated product of disconnection




So it is not having an ego which is the problem but having too much ego!


Edited by zzripz (07/22/16 06:11 AM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23465549 - 07/22/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lol I don't really want to continue this debate but you may be on to something with Tolle, I don't like the fact that he charges people to be with him. Other teachers do not do this. Mooji does satsangs for free. If you watch his videos on YouTube,  nobody leaves unchanged or needing more. They usually end up bowing to his feet and crying and laughing with relief.

This sometimes happens in churches too but watching that always seemed super phony to me. Perhaps they are the same thing


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga] * 1
    #23465616 - 07/22/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ponder this and the implications of spiritual or our non physical existence, consciousness and unconsciousness.



What do you think controls us?  The little light strips that represent our conscious existence, that are interrupted every 24 hours for 8 hours, or the blackness of the unknown, unconscious existence?  With every night of sleep the conscious continuity is broken, but the unconscious night of sleep is not known to be separate from that body of unknown below it.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


Edited by ChristopherABrown (07/22/16 10:55 AM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23465820 - 07/22/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
there is this confusion that has come from the psychophysical Eastern philosophical belief systems that makes out the 'ego' is wrong, and there is a possibility to get rid of it. But yet again this is dualistic thinking which conceptualizes the permananence of one part of a whole dynamic, eg:

ego/egolessness or termed selfish/selflessness where it is presumed you can become the latter part of the dynamic all-the-time.
This is the promise these gurus hold out, whilst making out they are without ego. And what this does is keep the believers in this in a state of ongoing dissatisfaction with their natural state which is always dynamic, and never one-sided! This manufactured dissatisfaction is what keeps these charlatans businesses ticking over, because people give them money for books and talks, hoping hoping 'someday' they will reac that goal convincingly promised them by their chosen saviour. Just round the next corner, then the next. And of course there will also be placebo affects and delusions where followers will feel superior to those who they judge are 'all ego' whilst they are, so the believe, egoless, or partway there.

This is not to say that extreme states of ego are good! Extreme states are the heroic ego which is part of the warrior militarized culture we are all oppressed under. This is the sense of ego which resists feeling, and a sense of communion with nature. A great book which goes into this is:
Quote:

From a Broken Web, by Catherine Keller:

'We belong to the culture of these conquerors, whose activities do not signify the perogative or even the priomordial choice of any generic "male", but of a set of migrants who emerged victorious...The hero-warrior lives a transcendence without immanence, a separative onness based on opposition to the other...In contrast to the soluble self, which dissolves into relation, the separative self makes itself the absolute in that it absolves itself from relation...
The in~flowing other must feel to a defensive ego like an aggressive intrusion, a threat to its self-containment. So it will re-double its fortifications and can justify its own aggression as defense...
The Cartesian subject, as "thinking thing" that walls itself into a formal self-identity to which it always transcendtally returns represents perhaps the most sophisticated product of disconnection




So it is not having an ego which is the problem but having too much ego!




Hey Zz,

i understand and appreciate your view a little more now -- although, Tolle I have had pretty good feelings from. . . that's just one perspective, though.

Although - to go into the part of agreement. . . it's like - there's genuine and less-than-genuine. . .

and of the latter group. . . i honestly give a lot of the benefit of doubt, - what i mean is. . .  more often than not - i see mistakes as sort of honest mistakes. . .  not so much someone out to profit on others - rather those who haven't really gotten there, and so forth...

earlier i was thinking of saying, to your post -- it's really quite possible for a 'teacher' ( i guess.. i use apostrophe's here , not to say that they aren't teachers at all, just. . . not quite what they say to be )

and - how to know if they are what they say to be?  well, that's a very classic question. . .

i think the answer is best to take things with a shadow of doubt, yet - explore the people one feels are good. . . . like -- intuition is so valuable, and important; and, it can always be improved on. . .

oh -- i forgot a run-on sentence......  i mean - it can be easy for a teacher to fall into the mistake of . . .

teaching? -- or , over-valuing theirselves and under-valuing the people they are talking to

-- which is basically, what i see you talking about, etc...  anyway.

Peace. :sun:


... at the same time, in those cases, i don't particularly wish to denounce or criticize them (  For all the various reasons, ... among others, because there are 'bigger fish to fry',,  - as well as, it sometimes cause friction or so forth )

not saying that that is never good; just that i pick my battles sort of , for the most part at least :sun:


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: graceful dragon]
    #23465873 - 07/22/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i guess b'coz there's always another level . 

One person may think they are a teacher or healer, yet have come nowhere close to eliminating schadenfreude from their heart -- i.e., not close to attaining real peace --

but since they believe so much in themselves, and strive for others; they cause pain -- 


Another person may be a little higher up -- they have eliminated all schadenfreude ( and maybe they never really had much of it )


but they are not legitimately a good teacher ( maybe they push what works for them onto others as a 'one-size-fits-all' type of thing. . . .

and that they are trying to 'push' anything onto anyone -- rather goes against their statement of saying,
'you are just fine as you are,' --
etc., --- and this is one of the things of the whole thing.  (hehe.... forgive me for using the word too much :-p )
basically it takes a lot of experimenting, haha.  and that involves a lot of learning -

and that helps one to develop humility ( eventually :smile: ) and. . .
all of that is not so compatible with thinking one is perfect. :smile:
of course it's sometimes true that 'everything is perfect' -- but, taken too far, this leads to quite a mushy brain....
mushy brain.... no brain.... hehe. :laugh: 
and that kind of thing -- it doesn't allow for positive change


and, too i know i've been writing in pretty much generalities , but anyway.  good day wished to all.


i guess - i've just seen the underside or darker side of it now; and --

the simple and the basic aspects of it. . . ( have faith in oneself, live well, 'love the world and uh, a set your fancy free' hehe ) to quote hendrix..  those simple come back with a resounding sound... of some kind. :smile: LoLoL :smile:

hehe.


i guess -- boiled down, what i mean to say is -- i agree that human life is wonderful; there's no need to

try to be something other than what we are -


in other words, to be a peaceful, loving person is where it's at - ... and what not.

:sun:

Om Namah Shivaya


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23465953 - 07/22/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ChristopherABrown said:
Ponder this and the implications of spiritual or our non physical existence, consciousness and unconsciousness.



What do you think controls us?  The little light strips that represent our conscious existence, that are interrupted every 24 hours for 8 hours, or the blackness of the unknown, unconscious existence?  With every night of sleep the conscious continuity is broken, but the unconscious night of sleep is not known to be separate from that body of unknown below it.




The subconscious is where everything really happens -- the body of the iceberg.  If one can make one's subconscious conscious, well, there you are.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #23466095 - 07/22/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes but some can be quite dignified about it still


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: yeah]
    #23466276 - 07/22/16 02:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

ooh - i wrote so much and kinda felt like deleting it, but called away... Sleepwalker said it :smile:

i wonder how dolphins feel about these topics :heartpump:


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: graceful dragon]
    #23467541 - 07/22/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you watch this following video from 1:09:50 to 1:15:00 this is an example of pure love that emanates from a spiritual master. I thought of what someone who is very skeptical might say of this video and the only thing I could come up with is that the love shared in this video is an exmaple of homo-erotic love, which when I thought of I felt sorry for anyone who would see it that way.

This is Mooji, he's really cool. And he doesn't charge anything for his satsangs. This post is not really aimed at zzrip, just wanted to share this because I love this moment in the video. It reminded me of when I met my guru and how just looking into his eyes transformed my entire being



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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23467592 - 07/22/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

yah, dude i got some Mooji.  been there done that.  go through the Amma videos.. there is one who knew from almost birth.. it's the first one , the first one i really ever think is on the level of Buddha; like from the beginning.. she is very beautiful and always seems to show divine love.. the divine mother..      Jai Ma :heartpump:

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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23467952 - 07/22/16 11:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I wanna be my own Guru.


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23468343 - 07/23/16 05:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hi and welcome. I really like that diagram, and am not surprised. I am always exploring and sharing how life (and death, because life and death and regeneration are a dynamic) is Mystery. Not as in eg 'one day this mystery will be solved' kind of gungo ho typical enterprise of our scientific world which must 'know' every crook and cranny, but that Mystery is always mystery because the conscious mind by its very nature cannot ever know the unknown
What does this mean? the knower cannot ever know the unknown? Well it'd be a contradiction to suggest that one day a knower can know the unknown. But is this what gurus promise?
yes they do, because in this way they can con their gullible followers that there can never be hidden, unknown motives for what they do they are not conscious of lol

Quote:

Sophisticated thinkers within Buddhism were (and are) aware that unconscious elements exist in the mind. But their interest in the unconscious is cloaked in an ideology that believes that it is not only possible to become totally selfless, but once having doen so, one is totally conscious and no longer moved by unconscious factors. If there were even the possibility that a totally realized being had an unconscious, how could anyone (including the realized one) be certain that all motives and actions were pure and selfless? (-The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power, Joel Kramer & Dianna Alstad, pages 101-102)




So what role do psychedelic play regarding the experience of become more aware of what previously was unconscious? I reckon they are the fruit per excellence for inspiring this! My very first LSD trip when I was 15, and hadn't read ANYthing had me seeing very clearly peoples body language. It was like suddenly become aware of what were behind the social masks people put on, even to themselves--I was at a party observing people who may have been stoned, but not tripping--. These experiences and others throughout my 15th year on this Earth woke me up to how ALIVE nature and matter really is, and my connection with nature.

These trips have inspired a life long journey of endless exploring and asking questions, and all of this is never linear, because knowing flows spirally into unknowing and so on and so forth. I realize that the 'normal' reality most of us will demand is the real is really being contrived by forces on our case as soon as we can speak. We are enforced into the 'education' system and this is where the indoctrination of the materialist culture really is pushed on, as well as their mass media etc, and it was/and still is with organized religious indoctrination. THIS mind-control we are made to be un-conscious of!


Edited by zzripz (07/23/16 05:42 AM)


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: zzripz]
    #23468355 - 07/23/16 05:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I think its all false. You cant have spirituality and materialism functioning in the same society. the height of spirituality is met with a decrease in material wants and desires. We are seeing forms of spirituality that dont challenge consumerism. abrahmic religions are attcked for their beleifs as they offer potential for a challenge to consumerism. so if you think you're more spiritual than the next guy you'd better take a hard look at your material possessions and ask do i own them or do they own me?


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: anthiawe]
    #23468523 - 07/23/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

there is pleasure to be had with form when the formless aspect is known


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: anthiawe]
    #23468585 - 07/23/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

anthiawe said:
I think its all false. You cant have spirituality and materialism functioning in the same society. the height of spirituality is met with a decrease in material wants and desires. We are seeing forms of spirituality that dont challenge consumerism. abrahmic religions are attcked for their beleifs as they offer potential for a challenge to consumerism. so if you think you're more spiritual than the next guy you'd better take a hard look at your material possessions and ask do i own them or do they own me?




what did you just send that message from?


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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: anthiawe]
    #23468702 - 07/23/16 09:36 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Hi and welcome. I really like that diagram, and am not surprised. I am always exploring and sharing how life (and death, because life and death and regeneration are a dynamic) is Mystery. Not as in eg 'one day this mystery will be solved' kind of gungo ho typical enterprise of our scientific world which must 'know' every crook and cranny, but that Mystery is always mystery because the conscious mind by its very nature cannot ever know the unknown
What does this mean? the knower cannot ever know the unknown? Well it'd be a contradiction to suggest that one day a knower can know the unknown. But is this what gurus promise?
yes they do, because in this way they can con their gullible followers that there can never be hidden, unknown motives for what they do they are not conscious of lol

Quote:

Sophisticated thinkers within Buddhism were (and are) aware that unconscious elements exist in the mind. But their interest in the unconscious is cloaked in an ideology that believes that it is not only possible to become totally selfless, but once having doen so, one is totally conscious and no longer moved by unconscious factors. If there were even the possibility that a totally realized being had an unconscious, how could anyone (including the realized one) be certain that all motives and actions were pure and selfless? (-The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power, Joel Kramer & Dianna Alstad, pages 101-102)




So what role do psychedelic play regarding the experience of become more aware of what previously was unconscious? I reckon they are the fruit per excellence for inspiring this! My very first LSD trip when I was 15, and hadn't read ANYthing had me seeing very clearly peoples body language. It was like suddenly become aware of what were behind the social masks people put on, even to themselves--I was at a party observing people who may have been stoned, but not tripping--. These experiences and others throughout my 15th year on this Earth woke me up to how ALIVE nature and matter really is, and my connection with nature.

These trips have inspired a life long journey of endless exploring and asking questions, and all of this is never linear, because knowing flows spirally into unknowing and so on and so forth. I realize that the 'normal' reality most of us will demand is the real is really being contrived by forces on our case as soon as we can speak. We are enforced into the 'education' system and this is where the indoctrination of the materialist culture really is pushed on, as well as their mass media etc, and it was/and still is with organized religious indoctrination. THIS mind-control we are made to be un-conscious of!




Exactly, all of that is accurate, particularly the indoctrinations.  I think most psychedelics provide too much vision into the unconscious whereupon we are overwhelmed then distracted.  We need brief glimpses that are relevant to our material needs and creating unity effective to meeting them.

Something that I've heard of but recently found is our intellectual/emotional archetypes which appear to be a thin but very widely influential aspect of our individual unconscious that is also shared.  By being sensitive and responsive to it in groups, massive conceptual sharing can be completed very quickly.

There is a phenomena which I've diagrammed in the next set of graphics that is called a hypnopompic event.  Thes links are to .pdf's of those.  http://algoxy.com/law/treasonresist/graphicunconscious/onedayofyourlife-S2.pdf

http://algoxy.com/law/treasonresist/graphicunconscious/onedayofyourlife-S3.pdf

I see hypnopompics more as a layer.  Once in it, the archetypes seem to cooperate with the conscious far more completely.  Seems a way around the "resolute barrier", an aspect brought forth on sheet 3.

The knower can only know the unknown in small pieces.  By keeping track of them a sense of the unknown or unconscious specific is gained.  The archetypes mentioned can help to verify aspects as experienced and the group keeps more and better track.  The fact of a group works against the indoctrination well.

It's very important to remain with instincts conceptually that support species continuity.  Those instincts naturally find ways to conscious appreciation.  This seems even greater when a group is involved

Quote:

anthiawe said:
I think its all false. You cant have spirituality and materialism functioning in the same society. the height of spirituality is met with a decrease in material wants and desires. We are seeing forms of spirituality that dont challenge consumerism. abrahmic religions are attcked for their beleifs as they offer potential for a challenge to consumerism. so if you think you're more spiritual than the next guy you'd better take a hard look at your material possessions and ask do i own them or do they own me?




They key therein is "wants and desires".  We NEED material.  With that, we NEED to be spiritually aligned in assuring the right material existence for continuity.

There has been an infiltration of society that has used media to create confusion between wants and needs.  Seeking to place wants over needs for profit.  One of the main tools has been to teach cognitive distortions.  One of those is "all or nothing thinking", which is where your statement, "You cant have spirituality and materialism functioning in the same society." is based.  Critical thinking cannot be effectively done with distortions, spiritual or otherwise.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23469753 - 07/23/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


There has been an infiltration of society that has used media to create confusion between wants and needs.




Yeah, here is  a strong example that is personal for me also, because as a kid i was a bit of a sugar addict. So this is how they do it: In the brain apparently are receptors that light up when we have natural sugars from fruit. Pleasure centres if you will, and this is because fruits are good for us. So what the sugar manufacturers have done is expropriate this so that you rather crave their unhealthy products. I have known people (and used to do it meself) who pile on sugar ON fruit. it makes me wanna PUKE now!! AND do without fruit altogether and but these evil sugar-saturated products that contain all other stuff including chemicals

Well they have done this formula with religion also. We need ecstasy. The real meaning of ec~stasy which has been made to seem it has a solely archaic 'shamanic' meaning and is about 'spirit flight' though it may include that, but what is usually ignored is its embodied aspect which is the sense of going beyond a static sense of ourselves. Of transcending the ego, and feeling an expansive connection with others and the natural world. So what the --who I call--toxic myth-makers do is EXPLOIT that need to mean a pining for some future immortality, and 'egolessness'. Meanwhile most if not all of these belief systems taboo psychedelics and forbid them, and even suppress them from memory which makes it EASIER to substitute their placebo which does really give the actual direct feeling, but HOOKS you to their product!
Notice how especially Christianity was so against sexual ecstasy, and how some cultures even perform genital mutilation on males and young females and women to stop them having sexual ecstasy!!


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Offlineanthiawe
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23471636 - 07/24/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

to humanbeing: my statement stands, yes we need matieral but no materialism, by that i mean consumerism and neoliberalism/capitalism in its entirety. through hegemonic process such as media, like you state, confusion arises. i'm not say no possessions what so ever like your all or nothing assumption, i'm saying you can't be truly spiritual/godfearing if you are using materials that remove your focus from that or are produced in ways that destory societies. cell phone production and rape with extreme violence are a good example, christians preach love yet they buy (and thus consent to) these phones produced through rape (where the rare earth mines are located), muslims care about halal meat but never consider halal cell phone production, atheists talk of high technology but never the low thinking it takes to not see the labour proccesses behind the good.


--------------------
TEK compendium


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: Spirituality has become common knowledge [Re: anthiawe]
    #23471767 - 07/24/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

anthiawe said:
to humanbeing: my statement stands, yes we need matieral but no materialism, by that i mean consumerism and neoliberalism/capitalism in its entirety. through hegemonic process such as media, like you state, confusion arises. i'm not say no possessions what so ever like your all or nothing assumption, i'm saying you can't be truly spiritual/godfearing if you are using materials that remove your focus from that or are produced in ways that destory societies. cell phone production and rape with extreme violence are a good example, christians preach love yet they buy (and thus consent to) these phones produced through rape (where the rare earth mines are located), muslims care about halal meat but never consider halal cell phone production, atheists talk of high technology but never the low thinking it takes to not see the labour proccesses behind the good.




Well stated anthiawe.  You have clarified your position completely.

And the hypocrisy of cell phone production is true enough within the the societies mentioned for the reasons stated.

I have a saying; "when we can build batteries as well as we build bombs, we won't need bombs."

Also, if there is a God, it brought intuitive info about a very dangerous bomb, that we acted upon, then hundreds of intuitive concepts about enabling communication that we are acting upon.  Exactly what kind of communication did the the creator intend we use the communications tools for?  And, if they are not used for those purposes, how much more wasted is the abuse of people and rape of resource?


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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