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Offlinetacofarmer
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Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question?
    #23437798 - 07/13/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I've never grown mushrooms but I've read a pretty decent amount.  I do have experience growing cannabis.  I also grow organic using mostly worm castings I get from feeding my worms food scraps that have fermented in a bokashi composter.  I keep mine vegetarian with the excep then mix 50 50 with coco coir and let sit in a tub for a month.  When I'm done this is totally covered in white fuzz.  I then feed that to a worm farm (red wigglers) I mix that with fox farm brand soil (ocean and happy).  This is the basis of my soil recipe. 

Now for my mushroom question.  My entire medical garden is based on bacteria and fungus.  I have used product with both trich and glomus species of fungus.  I believe my garden to be mostly lacto dominant.  But I'm not a mycologist.  So I cannot really say for sure what is the dominant life in my mix.  I know my herb is delicious.  I also know a lot of these things are a mushroom cultivators worst nightmare.

I have a few ideas/questions.  I understand building a clean room, and will build a plastic room with a few barriers and if needed buy the filters needed to provide clean air exchange. 

Is it possible to use my bokashi, bokashi coir mix or my finished worm castings as my substrate?  Could I actually use my spore syringe directly on any stage of this?  At what point would be best to sterilize?  Am I just nuts and is growing living soil and mushrooms in the same house a lost hope? 

Any advice or direction would be appreciated.  I've done a lot of searching and can't seem to find an answer.  This is the first place I've asked. 

Also.  My original plan was to just keep both products completely isolated from each other in every way.  I knew trich was a dominate species in at least a few products I've used and a mushroom growers worst enemy.  So I've put off starting a shroom farm for too long.  Now that I've studied more  I wonder if the two can't help each other. 

Thanks!

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Offlinepoponon
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: tacofarmer]
    #23437930 - 07/13/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

From what I remember worm castings are too rich to be used as a substrate on their own, but are a great substrate supplement at around 10%. There is a really good post that I can't find at the moment that lists many popular substrate additives and their recommended application rate.

As for using a spore syringe directly on your substrate, that's not the best idea either from my understanding. You'd want to prepare a sterile grain-based spawn for applying spores too. This spawn is mixed with your bulk substrate - where your worm castings would go. Take a look through the 'Growing Mushrooms' section of the site for lots more information of spawn vs substrate.

As for growing in the proximity of your composter, I think it'd be fine as long as the compost is not in the immediate vicinity of your mushroom sterile working area. If the compost is outside, and you have a clean room/still air box/flowhood inside, you'll be fine. Sterility is not as important after the culture has been established, so you may be able to spawn to a bulk substrate outside without too much of an issue. I'd just try to keep a good amount of distance from the compost


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: poponon]
    #23438671 - 07/13/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Just start.. really really simple.  I see weed growers all the time thinking they're gonna jump in with all these additives and shit, but this isn't weed, and it doesn't really work like that.  Use a bulk substrate mix of 1-2 materials, coir and verm preferably.  And yeah spore syringe to anything other than PF cakes is bad.

If you want to do advanced shit when you're first starting out then skip additives and get into agar.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22721954


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Offlinepoponon
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23438802 - 07/13/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Inocuole definitely has a good point. agar is definitely something to look into. You should probably first look into spawning to bulk substrate methods also - this sounds like the method you are aiming at.

also that old additive thread i was referring to, I found it :

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11247091

^very good post.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: poponon]
    #23438804 - 07/13/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I've never heard of anyone who couldn't grow suddenly being able to because of additives, likewise most people who know how to grow don't even bother.  That is all.


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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: poponon]
    #23438822 - 07/13/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

While working with agar and expanding strains on grain, you really end up with lots of lead time for figuring out bulk substrates.


Until you have some isolated genetics, you will never be able to truly test supplements properly. 


All that said, they will eat almost anything lol.  Gypsum and pressed seed oil are at the top of my list.  Stevia and pollen are a few tested by members.  You don't want too rich of a bulk substrate though.


Coir and straw give a nice cellulose matrix and aid water transport. Fluffy is good,as they need oxygen.

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Invisibledankington
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: Snazz]
    #23439299 - 07/13/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

i read bakshi and expected something else



but inoc's absolutely correct. In the world of mycology, it's the genetics that you want, not any additives.

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Offlinetacofarmer
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: dankington]
    #23440165 - 07/14/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Ok.  I suppose I worded that poorly.  It was a few different questions.

I already have the compost, coir and worm poo in use for other projects.

I was planning on using a very basic tek for the mushrooms, pf or mono tubs.

While researching I kept coming up with people using both coco and worm castings.  And I know my castings are super nutrient rich. 

I understand not to over complicate my first mushroom grow.  I first trying to determine if having both projects in the same vicinity meant certain death for the mushrooms.  Second, I was trying to figure out if the lactobaccilus also attacks mushrooms or if these projects could somehow benefit each other. 

My worm farm has shot up unidentified mushrooms before.  My bokashi shows no signs of trich or glomus type fungus. 

Thanks for all the input so far.

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Offlinepoponon
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23440193 - 07/14/16 08:12 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I've never heard of anyone who couldn't grow suddenly being able to because of additives, likewise most people who know how to grow don't even bother.  That is all.




I was just trying to explain how he could use his worm castings as an additive. I suggested looking into the basic information on the 'growing mushrooms' section of the site as a starting point.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: poponon]
    #23440275 - 07/14/16 08:52 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

oh god no, dont look there! all that's ancient stuff, read the boards.

You never said what species you wanna grow taco. some edibles loves compost, cubes not so much.

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Offlinetacofarmer
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23440321 - 07/14/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I intend to start with a variety of different cubes.  See what works best and more important what I end up enjoying most.  Hopefully move on to some more finicky strains later. 


That additives link is great.  I have most of the list already.  I was under the impression mushrooms are really heavy feeders.  I know spent mushroom compost needs to sit for a year or so just so it will cool down enough to use as a soil additive.  I could be confused but to me that suggested that if the leftovers after mushrooms had already eaten all the could still needs to sit in order for it to not overfeed and burn up a heavy feeding plant.  That to me suggest that you could use feed mushrooms way heavier than plants and possibly squeeze extra flushes also.

I think some side by side comparison will be done soon.  I have a feeling I could slightly alter what I'm already doing for my living soil and outperform a simple substrate. 

Thanks for the links and help.  Keep the conversation going.

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Offlinepoponon
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23440322 - 07/14/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

there is some good starter info in there. you're right though , the mushroom cultivation archive forum and the search function are your friend


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: poponon]
    #23440336 - 07/14/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Be very careful of the archives too.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: tacofarmer]
    #23440410 - 07/14/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tacofarmer said:
I intend to start with a variety of different cubes.  See what works best and more important what I end up enjoying most.  Hopefully move on to some more finicky strains later. 


That additives link is great.  I have most of the list already.  I was under the impression mushrooms are really heavy feeders.  I know spent mushroom compost needs to sit for a year or so just so it will cool down enough to use as a soil additive.  I could be confused but to me that suggested that if the leftovers after mushrooms had already eaten all the could still needs to sit in order for it to not overfeed and burn up a heavy feeding plant.  That to me suggest that you could use feed mushrooms way heavier than plants and possibly squeeze extra flushes also.

I think some side by side comparison will be done soon.  I have a feeling I could slightly alter what I'm already doing for my living soil and outperform a simple substrate. 

Thanks for the links and help.  Keep the conversation going.




you seem to be confusing mushrooms with plants, they're not.
cubes are primary decomposers, they use their metabolites to break down solid matter. so compost isnt their favorite food.
coir+verm works great. If you want higher yields you have to start looking for good cultures on agar, not additives for your substrate

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Offlinetacofarmer
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23440426 - 07/14/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

My ah ha moment.

So I should actually be considering using my spent mushroom substrate for my bokashi or worms.

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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Soil, bacteria, lacto, bokashi, worm farm and new mushroom farmer question? [Re: tacofarmer]
    #23440442 - 07/14/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:fuckinawesome:

or your garden.

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