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OfflineLeeq
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Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid
    #23436907 - 07/13/16 03:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hey guys. I want to be able to make a liquid tincture that would be doses much like LSD. Was was wondering if it's possible to get a concentrated ethanol where anywhere from 1 - 5 drops of a pippette equals 2/3g of mushroom.

Can anyone point me to extractions for this?

Have found similr extractions, but they always have it at concentrations of 5ml to 3g or so,rather than 5 drops of a pippete.

Thanks/


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Leeq]
    #23436951 - 07/13/16 04:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Pretty sure this isn't a cultivation topic..  Getting the concentration you're looking for is not possible with crude extractions anyway, would probably be easier to just synth the shit at that rate.


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OfflineLeeq
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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Inocuole]
    #23436957 - 07/13/16 04:49 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Pretty sure this isn't a cultivation topic..  Getting the concentration you're looking for is not possible with crude extractions anyway, would probably be easier to just synth the shit at that rate.




synth the shit?

and what about this? surely this could be done, but have the end result, the goo, re-dissolved in to ethanol?


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Leeq]
    #23437047 - 07/13/16 06:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

O.o yeah fuck tinctures. I tried to do what you're wanting. Really didn't work. Would have to do some defatting and what not. I like my shroom hash.


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OfflineLeeq
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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Mad Season]
    #23437109 - 07/13/16 06:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
O.o yeah fuck tinctures. I tried to do what you're wanting. Really didn't work. Would have to do some defatting and what not. I like my shroom hash.




defatting?


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Leeq]
    #23437292 - 07/13/16 08:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ok well before attempting an extraction you should look up exactly what
an extraction entails. "Synth" means to synthesize one chemical into
another. Requires chemistry know-how so don't bother.

Defatting is exactly what it sounds like: Removing the fat from the
solution being extracted. This would be done by using a solvent to remove
the fat while leaving the desired alkaloids in solution by acidification.

Again this would all just be a waste of time and your best bet would be
to just make tea or just eat the mushrooms.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Leeq]
    #23437550 - 07/13/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

There is a tek to distill it into sugar.


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OfflineJesseCruz
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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Leeq]
    #23437890 - 07/13/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It is possible to make psilocybin essential oil.

The best way is to do a steam distillation. You need either a still with column and sieve or a Soxhlet extractor.

Run the hydrosol which still comes from through a separatory funnel to isolate the essential oil. They are a few drops of oil per ounce of mushrooms dry, but it is very pure.

Another possibility is to put the mushrooms in water and reduce it by half in a double boiler. This method gives you a very strong tea.

Each set of instructions, how to make lavender oil should be enough for fungal oil.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: JesseCruz]
    #23437953 - 07/13/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

They're very water soluble. Make tea and boil it down. Ice cube it or add ethanol back in if you want


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: JesseCruz]
    #23438492 - 07/13/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

have you ever attempted or tried the psilocybin essential oil?


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: openmindedcanvas]
    #23438519 - 07/13/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I think we all know full well that he hasn't.  Psilocybin essential oil.  :rolleyes:


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Inocuole]
    #23439060 - 07/13/16 08:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That feeling when you don't know you said something that reveals that you don't know what you're talking about


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Mad Season]
    #23439119 - 07/13/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
O.o yeah fuck tinctures. I tried to do what you're wanting. Really didn't work. Would have to do some defatting and what not. I like my shroom hash.




do tell, Mad. What is this 'shroom hash' you speak of?


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: dankington]
    #23439132 - 07/13/16 09:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I may try vacuum sublimation some day...


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Snazz]
    #23439198 - 07/13/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
Quote:

Mad Season said:
O.o yeah fuck tinctures. I tried to do what you're wanting. Really didn't work. Would have to do some defatting and what not. I like my shroom hash.




do tell, Mad. What is this 'shroom hash' you speak of?



Quote:

Mad Season said:


I try to aim for this. Idgaf about a few spores. Just takes a 2 second towel wipe. They look presentable to me, and I haven't seen any potency differences :shrug:



When it's like this.. :suicide:



I turned this harvest into this





Quote:

Mad Season said:
70% pure iso alcohol extraction. Ground up the black shrooms and did 3 pulls from it. Let it all evaporate and it turned into basically shroom hash. I didn't do any defatting or anything. I don't mind it being all hash-like xD

.5g is about a 3g dose, and that ball on the right is a pre-measured .5g dose




Definitely not a tincture, and there's no fricken way I could have turned it into a small dose like 5 drops is 3g without defatting. In this form, it's like only well stored in the freezer. Started losing a noticeable amount of potency after about 6 months in open air.

P.S. I live in a VERY dry climate (under 10-20% rH a lot), so I'd imagine places more humid couldn't have anywhere near the same amount of potency retained in open air.


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Edited by Mad Season (07/13/16 09:36 PM)


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Mad Season]
    #23439207 - 07/13/16 09:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That looks fuckin disgusting...


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Mad Season]
    #23439215 - 07/13/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:takingnotes: interesting. Thanks for that! I've definitely had specimens that could have used that route! I bet it tastes like absolute ass tho! :lol:


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: dankington]
    #23439256 - 07/13/16 09:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It tastes and smells literally exactly like shrooms lol. Yeah inoc it ain't pretty. There's a reason I don't recommend it to people. It was much more work than necessary and didn't even turn out like how I wanted lol!


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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: JesseCruz]
    #23439634 - 07/14/16 12:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

JesseCruz said:
It is possible to make psilocybin essential oil.

The best way is to do a steam distillation. You need either a still with column and sieve or a Soxhlet extractor.

Run the hydrosol which still comes from through a separatory funnel to isolate the essential oil. They are a few drops of oil per ounce of mushrooms dry, but it is very pure.

Another possibility is to put the mushrooms in water and reduce it by half in a double boiler. This method gives you a very strong tea.

Each set of instructions, how to make lavender oil should be enough for fungal oil.





Hows this work if the actives are water soluble. Don't the actives escape with the steam that is leaving, as well?


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: camplo]
    #23439710 - 07/14/16 12:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lol actives escaping into the steam.  :rofl:  If that worked you could have hallucinogenic saunas.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Inocuole]
    #23439737 - 07/14/16 12:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

To distill off the actives you would have to heat to 400+
The whole purpose of distillation is leave everything but water behind not have it go into vapor


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23440548 - 07/14/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: camplo]
    #23440639 - 07/14/16 11:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ya, fractal distillation is for very stable molecules. 


V/V sep with the right pH then neutralize with a base, freezing (fats etc)  and vac filtration gets u close enough.


Acid seems to aid in the dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin due to the enzyme being extracted to the solution as well.


Since you are dealing with only one compound now,  polar solvents work quite well. V/V with a non-polar like ether will extract impurities.


Methanol seems like the solvent of choice in all the old published papers


Edited by Snazz (07/14/16 12:09 PM)


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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Snazz]
    #23441010 - 07/14/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't know it was so easy to make concentrated tea, I wonder to what extreme this works. Boil a quarter down to one shot of liquid?


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OfflineLeeq
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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: camplo]
    #23447706 - 07/16/16 07:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

camplo said:
I didn't know it was so easy to make concentrated tea, I wonder to what extreme this works. Boil a quarter down to one shot of liquid?





Alright mate, that's sort of what i'm intrested in. I'd love to be able to make it in to tea but then slowly reduce until it's a tiny amount, enough for a few drops to be a good couple gram dose.

Or just a total ISO goo extraction then disolve that back in to ethanol, whalla, Psylo-drops? Yes?


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Leeq]
    #23447767 - 07/16/16 08:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

A few drops will never be a couple gram dose, you can forget about that.  If you do reduce it that far, it will be opaque nasty looking globs, not drops.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Inocuole]
    #23447793 - 07/16/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Mad Season]
    #23447970 - 07/16/16 09:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you are looking for a good extraction method, it's pretty much what snazz described. You need to have chemistry know-how and to know how to use the equipment that is needed. Still, you will never get to the point where you will be dosing by drops, it's just not possible with the current methods.

The method Snazz mentioned uses both polar and non-polar solvents which is the equivalent of making both a water extraction (tea) and a chemical one (like alcohol extractions). There are two type of actives that we know of in shrooms which are psilocybin and psilocin. One is soluble in water and the other in alcohol so you can't get all the actives with just one type of extraction.

The only reason why water extraction works better is because the body can digest psilocin directly whereas psilocybin has to be broken down into psilocin for the body to digest it. Alcohol extractions on their own suck balls.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23448124 - 07/16/16 10:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That's why I use 1/3rd sake in my tea extraction:thumbup:


Most assays I have seen in published journals show psilocybin content is way higher than the psilocin but it definitely is strain-dependant.


The former only needs a phosphate chopped off before it's bioactive.


You actually don't want to 'digest' it though. Rue inhibits that enzyme and really potentiates the trip.


30g fresh APE + harmala extract sublingual was a sweet ride last night.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Snazz]
    #23448771 - 07/17/16 04:20 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

AFAIK cubes have equal amounts of both actives, on average of course. I think it's the "breakdown" from psilocybin to psilocin is what makes an alcohol extraction not as good as a water one. I imagine some is lost in the process.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23449645 - 07/17/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Psilocybin and psilocin are both quite water soluble


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23451174 - 07/17/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It seems like I mixed them up. It seems like psilocin is the one that's extracted by alcohol.

Here's a quote from Fastfred:

Quote:

fastfred said:
Here are some snips I had laying around...

Psilocybin: Sol in 20 parts boiling water, 120 parts boiling methanol; difficultly sol. in ethanol. Practically insol in chloroform, benzene.

Psilocin: Unstable in soln, esp. akaline soln. Very slightly sol in water.  Soluable in ether.  Recrystalize from chloroform/heptane (1:3) yielding white crystals. With aqueous ethanol, the optimum extraction was with a 70% ethanol concentration, and the extraction efficiency dropped almost to zero when there was no water present. But methanol was extremely inefficient regardless of the amount of water present in it.

Psilocin forms white crystals from methanol and is quite insoluble in water, but dissolves in most organic solvents.


-FF




Yeah, both are soluble to some extent in water but it seems that chemicals are far better at extracting psilocin than water alone. Hence why the extraction Snazz mentioned would be the most efficient as well as the best candidate for reducing the volume of the final solution like OP wanted. Goodluck doing it without any chemical and chemistry know-how though. I barely recognized half of the shit I needed when I read a tek like that, let alone actually managing to get said shit.

It would be nice if someone figured out some magical way to get a very potent solution where drops of liquid are the equivalent of grams, wouldn't it? Nausea would be non-existing with something like that except for the little bit you get while being high.

So is it also the other way around in terms of digestability? Does psilocin turn into psilocybin? Or did I get that part right? Haven't read that stuff in a while, excuse my amnesia.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23451270 - 07/17/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Psilocybin#section=Solubility

Appears its 6 times more soluble in water... Merck index 2001.

Then if you use lemon slightly acidic solution psilocin is very soluble as if acts like a salt.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (07/17/16 09:37 PM)


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23451297 - 07/17/16 09:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

In vivo, psilocybine is rapidly dephosphorylated into the active compound psilocin




It seems like I got that part right. I wonder why alcohol extraction on it's own isn't that potent.

That is the sheet for psilocybin, and that is part of FF's quote. I was talking about psilocin which is "Very slightly sol in water" according to FF's findings.

I gave up on extractions personally. I haven't got enough know-how to pull anything worth the effort from them. Not to mention the equipment you need which I cannot even spell, let alone set up and use.

Anyway, according to Wiki, cubes have ~equal amounts of both actives. So since one is easily soluble in water and the other isn't, I would have thought that both teks would yield the same potency solution. I dunno, maybe I did it all wrong. RR seems to have had great results with alcohol extraction on it's own. Said he stored some in a freezer and tried it years later with good results. I did use ~86% alcohol though, which could be why.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23451344 - 07/17/16 09:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The acid and extracted enzymes from the fruit will convert to 100% psilocin.


Tea is 250-400ml liquid to dissolve under a gram of psilocin, so solubility isn't really going to be an issue.


I like alcohol to help carry it quickly to the bloodstream 

:p


My last brew started to hit in 8 min


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Snazz]
    #23451637 - 07/18/16 12:28 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Never had tea disappoint less than 10-15m to blastoff


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23451654 - 07/18/16 12:42 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, every extract hits pretty quickly. My alcohol one was just as fast as any tea I made, it was just lacking in how far it can go.


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Re: Making potent mushroom tincture/liquid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23451655 - 07/18/16 12:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I really really enjoyed trying the mushroom jello.  Made tea seem like choking back bear piss, hit about the same, if not faster.


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