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Offlineskande
Phd in Waste Managment

Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 40
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Homeostasis & Tripping Forever
    #23436781 - 07/13/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

From my understanding, the mind cannot sustain certain forms of alternative conscious experience  because the brain needs to maintain homeostasis using strategies such as upregulating/downregulating of neurotransmitter reception.

A critical example of this, I think, is the tolerance exponential build-up following repeated administration of serotoninergic phenetylamines such as mescaline.

If we were able to prevent the brain from instilling homeostasis by sensitization of the right system of neurons (5HT2A serotonin receptors in the previous case), could we then sustain no-tolerance build-up and then humans would be able to live in a alternative state of consciousness forever/as-long-as-their-supply-last/until-neuroplasticity-enforces-permanent-perceptual-enhancement ?


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,568
Loc: Utah
Re: Homeostasis & Tripping Forever [Re: skande]
    #23436787 - 07/13/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Tripping 24/7 would not be a good thing. Needing to wait a week between doses is probably one of the healthiest aspects of psychedelics as a class of drugs, so I would say tolerance is actually a good thing.

Stopping or controlling the up/down regulation of receptors in the brain would probably cause massive side effects. I'm also just not sure that the biology allows such control beyond the things that we already understand (eg. antagonists and reverse agonists can sometimes lead to upregulation, and agonists and antagonists can sometimes lead to downregulation.)

If you could control tolerance, the real goldmine wouldn't be psychedelics, but opiates. Just imagine, you could completely reverse someone's opiate tolerance making them "unaddicted" to opiates. Or, you could coadminister a drug along with opiates that prevents tolerance and thus keeps opiate users from becoming addicted in the first place.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Homeostasis & Tripping Forever [Re: skande]
    #23436796 - 07/13/16 01:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Possibly but I suspect it would be more complicated than just working with one set of neurons, nor would it be worth the effort most likely.

I'm pretty sure the novelty would wear off and it would become unpleasant even. I believe the great value in the mescaline experience, is the contrast between it and our normal state and any attempt to prolong the experience idefinitely would be working against the laws of the universe and counter productive in some way.

Now it is possible to trip forever without any special technology other than the right susbtances, the main ones being amanita muscaria and cannabis. Both of these can be used on a daily bases without too much tolerance build up (in fact I havent really noticed any tolerance build up with amanita muscaria at all).

Once you learn how to use amanita it can be just as intense, if not more than mescaline or LSD and it can literally be used as often as you want without tolerance build up, or causing you not to sleep all night or the others problems associated with frequent use of the classical psychedelics.

I went through a period last year where I was using amanita about 5 days a week and psilocybin or mescaline on one of the off days, with cannabis mixed in here and there. I was literally tripping almost every day. It got to me a little much for me psychologically and these days I trip a lot less and spend more time trying to integrate the lessons.

But you can trip as much as you as you can handle. I tried taking mescaline twice in three days recently and tolerance did not prevent me from tripping, but the psychological toll was much greater than when I wait a week or so.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlinekrishnalove
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Registered: 12/11/12
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Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Homeostasis & Tripping Forever [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23436870 - 07/13/16 03:01 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

one might simply step across the veil, existing with one foot on either side.


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Offlineskande
Phd in Waste Managment

Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 40
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Homeostasis & Tripping Forever [Re: krishnalove]
    #23436879 - 07/13/16 03:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Btw @nooneman, you can actually prevent opiates tolerance build-up to a certain extent (??) with NMDA antagonist such as DXM or memantine.


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I am currently sleeping, whoever is typing what you are reading is not me.

Learning the gameplay of reality.


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OfflineSabnock
Be Your Own Shaman
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Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 7 hours, 16 minutes
Re: Homeostasis & Tripping Forever [Re: skande]
    #23437662 - 07/13/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

There's no tolerance with Ayahuasca (Harmalas and DMT). The DMT doesn't build up a tolerance, and the Harmalas have a reverse tolerance so the more you take them the stronger they get. I've taken Ayahuasca daily for a week or so before, didn't lose any magic at all.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Homeostasis & Tripping Forever [Re: Sabnock]
    #23438148 - 07/13/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Mushroom tolerance reaches a peak that it doesn't go above at about 25g doses, built up over multiple days.  The effect remains the same but the dosage doesn't have to be increased after that.  It is however what the OP suggests I think, a new homeostasis, because when you stop there are a few days of blunted affect before things return to normal.  I don't think I'd want to trip forever though. :shrug:


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