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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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America is not a Democracy anymore 1
#23434569 - 07/12/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here is an interesting article showing how Congress today completely ignores the will of the people in favor of its rich donors:
Consider: - When 91% wanted to strengthen rules on clean air and protection of drinking water, Congress – led by the Republican majority – proposed weakening them; - When 90% wanted to protect public lands and parks; the Republicans proposed putting them on sale or otherwise privatizing them; - When 74% of Americans favored ending subsidies to big oil, Congress retained most of them; - At a time when the majority of citizens favored allowing tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 to expire, the best Congress could do was to compromise on $400,000; - When 70% of Americans said climate change should be a high priority issue, Congress took no action; - Some 80% of Americans favor shoring up Social Security even if it means higher taxes and a similar number support retaining Medicare as is, but the Obama administration has twice offered cuts to both programs as part of a “grand bargain” and Republican budgets routinely seek to privatize them; - Or take this gem … more than 80% of Americans want to clamp down on Wall Street but the best we could get was weak-sister legislation that doesn’t even address too-big-to-fail or restore a Glass Steagall provision limiting the risks these big banks can take with your money. And even this slap-on-the-wrist legislation is being completely eviscerated as it is translated into regulations. - After Orlando, 92% of the people supported a bill expanding background checks to online purchases of guns, but Congress has been unable to pass it; - And when 85% of citizens supported a bill barring people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, Congress couldn’t pass the it;
I agree. What the common man wants today is irrelevant. Congress no longer cares what the common man wants.
The only way to change this is to elect someone who doesn't take all his money from the rich. Unfortunately, Bernie just endorsed Hillary this morning.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
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Not sure they ever cared about common people as the people are today. People we much more controlled in the past. Through upbringing and public education, or lack thereof proper and true edipucation. The public has never had such extremes of views. Some people want the 1950's back and others want to grow the fuck up!
If it were a true democracy we would go online everyday or once a week and log into a voters account voting away as we wish.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: America is not a Democracy anymore
It never was. It was started as and remains a constitutional republic.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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That's right, when people are not paying attention, representatives and senators can do whatever they want. However, when people are paying attention, it's mob rule. Very often, public officials are bound by popular mandate in order to keep their jobs. But people aren't paying such close attention all the time, and, when more obscure legislation is up, naked self-interest dictates behavior to an appalling degree.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23434623 - 07/12/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Government cared about the people after WWII. Corporations retook the Government in the 80's.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy]
#23434633 - 07/12/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: If it were a true democracy we would go online everyday or once a week and log into a voters account voting away as we wish.
Watch what you wish for:
Quote:
Today most Americans (51%) now support banning Muslims entering the United States
.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/28/divide-muslim-neighborhood-patrols/
For decades Americans would have voted to keep interracial or gay marriage illegal. Should that have been up to the voters?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: But people aren't paying such close attention all the time, and, when more obscure legislation is up, naked self-interest dictates behavior to an appalling degree.

Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23434658 - 07/12/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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What would the best system of Government look and act like?
I am all for influencing voters but it's hard to outdo the media and religious teachers. Those two groups have the most power over the entire country, competing with the military.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23434712 - 07/12/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
Have to agree.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Here is an interesting article showing how Congress today completely ignores the will of the people in favor of its rich donors:
Consider: - When 91% wanted to strengthen rules on clean air and protection of drinking water, Congress – led by the Republican majority – proposed weakening them; - When 90% wanted to protect public lands and parks; the Republicans proposed putting them on sale or otherwise privatizing them; - When 74% of Americans favored ending subsidies to big oil, Congress retained most of them; - At a time when the majority of citizens favored allowing tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 to expire, the best Congress could do was to compromise on $400,000; - When 70% of Americans said climate change should be a high priority issue, Congress took no action; - Some 80% of Americans favor shoring up Social Security even if it means higher taxes and a similar number support retaining Medicare as is, but the Obama administration has twice offered cuts to both programs as part of a “grand bargain” and Republican budgets routinely seek to privatize them; - Or take this gem … more than 80% of Americans want to clamp down on Wall Street but the best we could get was weak-sister legislation that doesn’t even address too-big-to-fail or restore a Glass Steagall provision limiting the risks these big banks can take with your money. And even this slap-on-the-wrist legislation is being completely eviscerated as it is translated into regulations. - After Orlando, 92% of the people supported a bill expanding background checks to online purchases of guns, but Congress has been unable to pass it; - And when 85% of citizens supported a bill barring people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, Congress couldn’t pass the it;
I agree. What the common man wants today is irrelevant. Congress no longer cares what the common man wants.
The only way to change this is to elect someone who doesn't take all his money from the rich. Unfortunately, Bernie just endorsed Hillary this morning.
Bernie is too old. I knew that he was going to fall for that old polls trick. The polls are not accurate. They are only used as a psychology game, to having the other person into believing that they are losing, that they should give up and hand over your votes to the other person. But Trump knows a good bluff when he see it. That is why he didn't fall for it when the polls were saying that the outcome wasn't in favor of him against the other opponents. But you can tell Bernie that he only has an half a vote, and he will believe it. Hillary probably only had an half a vote, but she and the establishments were able to trick Bernie into surrendering his votes to her. And now she has a new sucker.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#23435232 - 07/12/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
Have to agree.
so I take it you guys are big government fans huh?
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay] 1
#23435516 - 07/12/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not even a little. That's a pretty stupid statement. Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
It's a shame you needed that explained to you. Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (07/12/16 05:26 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23435890 - 07/12/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Watch what you wish for:
Quote:
Today most Americans (51%) now support banning Muslims entering the United States
.
For decades Americans would have voted to keep interracial or gay marriage illegal. Should that have been up to the voters?
I don't really care about either of these issues. Gay marriage is a stupid issue in my opinion. It's a side issue to get keep voters uninformed and emotional. I care about economic and foreign policy issues a lot more, generally speaking.
How about this one:
Quote:
A majority of Americans continue to say marijuana use should be legal in the United States, with 58% holding that view, tying the high point in Gallup's 46-year trend.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/186260/back-legal-marijuana.aspx
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: But people aren't paying such close attention all the time, and, when more obscure legislation is up, naked self-interest dictates behavior to an appalling degree.

Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
I'm not agreeing, or disagreeing, however, I would like to say at least, that people would be far more involved, and informed, if we did have a direct democracy. When all they do is vote once every four years, most people don't generally pay attention throughout the rest of the year.
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: America is not a Democracy anymore
It never was. It was started as and remains a constitutional republic.
We are a 'representative democracy', and clearly, from that very long list of Falcons, we are not being represented by congress. This country may not have been intended to be a direct democracy, but when you have 80%+ or even over 90% support for something, and congress does the opposite, clearly something is wrong. That is not how a representative democracy is supposed to function. Congress is not our 'daddy', and they are meant to implement the will of the people to some degree.
However, the means of controlling congress is through voting. Most Americans are either uninterested, or apathetic, and they don't vote these assholes out when they fuck us over. I, for one, will be voting against both of my Democratic Senators come November. They don't represent me.
The political upset we are seeing this election year is just a murmur compared to what we will see in the years to come. My generation is far more involved than those previous. Not because we are better, but because this country has been fucked up since we reached adulthood, and also because we have the internet to discuss these things. If it weren't for the internet, talking to you guys, and observing alternative news organizations, I wouldn't be nearly as well informed as I am. I can view the spin from 5 different news organizations, understand their biases, and compare it with youtube 'news', and forum conversations, to develop a well rounded opinion. That is a huge advantage over previous generations who would read one news source (ie, the New York Times), and get all of their information from it.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23435957 - 07/12/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Question:
1) Did your representative and Senator vote on most issues for what YOU wanted?.
2) If they didn't, did you contact them and state your views?
3) If they didn't satisfy your views, did you 'Pull the Lever' for them again, just because they are 'Democrats' or 'Republicans?'
4) Did you check the voting record of your representative and senators?
5) Did you encourage your friends to do the same?
6) Do you actually look at proposed bills, and weigh the pro's and con's? Do you then contact your Rep or Senator with your opinion?
7) Do you vote because someone makes you feel good, or because 'That guy X is a racist' or some other reason that is emotion charged?
If you can't honestly answer those questions, quit bitching. Because the people do have the power to fix and change ANYTHING they want in this country.
We've been going through this for years. And what has been the solution? Elect a guy who talks big shit, then expands government and makes more rules and regulations.
If this process has worked, why do things get more and more fucked up?
If you haven't taken all the steps in questions 1~7, quit bitching. Nothing is going to change until people do take those steps, and those that just go pull a lever because some politician talks out his ass are a big part of the problem.
YES, YES, IF WE APPLIED THOSE CRITERIA, most of the Tools who are in DC Today would be gone.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: starfire_xes]
#23435977 - 07/12/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are right. I don't call me congress people though. Maybe I should, but I doubt it will have much of an impact.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23436136 - 07/12/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Not even a little. That's a pretty stupid statement. Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
It's a shame you needed that explained to you. Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
it's a shame you need to stoop to an insult to push a little umph into your opinion. An opinion that gives way to nothing but government speaking for others.
Maybe try answering a question without insulting some one. can you present an idea and form a basis of a statement without doing so? that would be contrary to your posting methods so far.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: starfire_xes] 2
#23436149 - 07/12/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: We've been going through this for years. And what has been the solution? Elect a guy who talks big shit, then expands government and makes more rules and regulations.
No, the problem isn't government, or rules, or regulations. The problem is elected officials helping whomever gives them the most money to get elected, which isn't the common man.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay] 2
#23436185 - 07/12/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: That's a pretty stupid statement.
Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
it's a shame you need to stoop to an insult to push a little umph into your opinion. An opinion that gives way to nothing but government speaking for others.
Maybe try answering a question without insulting some one. can you present an idea and form a basis of a statement without doing so? that would be contrary to your posting methods so far.
So true.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23436991 - 07/13/16 05:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I'm not agreeing, or disagreeing, however, I would like to say at least, that people would be far more involved, and informed, if we did have a direct democracy.
It would interfere with the favorite TV shows. People would remain... people.
Quote:
When all they do is vote once every four years, most people don't generally pay attention throughout the rest of the year.
Many don't even pay attention then. They simply vote for the little R or D behind the names.
As direct democracy would need people who actually took the time... the level of uninformed people would remain about the same.
Direct democracy is as bad an idea as mandatory voting.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay] 1
#23436994 - 07/13/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Not even a little. That's a pretty stupid statement. Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
It's a shame you needed that explained to you. Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
it's a shame you need to stoop to an insult to push a little umph into your opinion. An opinion that gives way to nothing but government speaking for others.
Maybe try answering a question without insulting some one. can you present an idea and form a basis of a statement without doing so? that would be contrary to your posting methods so far.
You must be a delicate 'lil flower if that insulted you.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23437014 - 07/13/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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ah, so I see you're incapable of holding an adult conversation.
well when your approach to speaking matches an angsty teenager, I highly doubt you're saying anything worth hearing.
NEXT
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay]
#23437298 - 07/13/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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More and proper education would solve a lot of voting issues. People have so many back woods beliefs. Most of what they learned came from emotional,tv programming exploiting an ignorant upbringing. Sometimes being brought up under the far right forces people a little left. But this seems rare.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay] 1
#23437317 - 07/13/16 08:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: ah, so I see you're incapable of holding an adult conversation.
No, I just figured what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Quote:
well when your approach to speaking matches an angsty teenager, I highly doubt you're saying anything worth hearing.
NEXT

I'll keep that in mind as you guys beat-up your favorite target.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy]
#23437499 - 07/13/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: More and proper education would solve a lot of voting issues. People have so many back woods beliefs. Most of what they learned came from emotional,tv programming exploiting an ignorant upbringing. Sometimes being brought up under the far right forces people a little left. But this seems rare.
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Or is that the Republicans doing in Congress?
I know in Ohio the Republicans have hurt things a lot. There are hardly any Public Schools left in our City. They want a stupid population that is easily controlled.
Edited by Morel Guy (07/13/16 10:37 AM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 2
#23437614 - 07/13/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: You must be a delicate 'lil flower if that insulted you.
More insults from the self proclaimed adult in the room. 
I don't think anyone's hurt. Just pointing out that you're the child in the discussion.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy]
#23437624 - 07/13/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: Or is that the Republicans doing in Congress?
I know in Ohio the Republicans have hurt things a lot. There are hardly any Public Schools left in our City. They want a stupid population that is easily controlled.
The politicians that were in office before are all linked up. There were no two parties but one. But now we are going to have our very first Republican President since the last time it was over a century ago. Remember that Obama said that he has restored things, and so that is a lie. He pretending that things has been fix. About him creating jobs; all he has done is to cut the hours into halves, and so now, the eight hours shift is shared by two people. And made it hard for those that receives unemployment insurance, that they can only receive it for a couple of month then they are not recorded in the statistic of not employed americans even if they has not found a job. They become invisible. And so now, we has eight people that are sharing an eight hour shift and a fake report about the unemployment rate has drop even though the invisible or the unmentionables ones that are unemployed has increased.
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Quote:
Douglas Howard said:
Quote:
Morel Guy said: Or is that the Republicans doing in Congress?
I know in Ohio the Republicans have hurt things a lot. There are hardly any Public Schools left in our City. They want a stupid population that is easily controlled.
The politicians that were in office before are all linked up. There were no two parties but one. But now we are going to have our very first Republican President since the last time it was over a century ago. Remember that Obama said that he has restored things, and so that is a lie. He pretending that things has been fix. About him creating jobs; all he has done is to cut the hours into halves, and so now, the eight hours shift is shared by two people. And made it hard for those that receives unemployment insurance, that they can only receive it for a couple of month then they are not recorded in the statistic of not employed americans even if they has not found a job. They become invisible. And so now, we has eight people that are sharing an eight hour shift and a fake report about the unemployment rate has drop even though the invisible or the unmentionables ones that are unemployed has increased.
The way I see it is that the two parties have never been more divided. How's all that you mentioned Obama's fault?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Douglas Howard] 1
#23437656 - 07/13/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Douglas Howard said: About him creating jobs; all he has done is to cut the hours into halves, and so now, the eight hours shift is shared by two people. And made it hard for those that receives unemployment insurance, that they can only receive it for a couple of month then they are not recorded in the statistic of not employed americans even if they has not found a job. They become invisible. And so now, we has eight people that are sharing an eight hour shift and a fake report about the unemployment rate has drop even though the invisible or the unmentionables ones that are unemployed has increased.
Obama hasn't done any of those things. That's just republicans whining about how much better things are now than they were when Obama first took office. Granted, things can and should get better, but eight people are NOT sharing a single shift (or even two people for that matter). Rules for counting unemployment haven't changed.
And if don't like the official U3 unemployment figure, feel free to use U6 unemployment, as that factors in discouraged workers, marginally attached workers, and those workers who are forced to work part-time for economic reasons. U6 is back to normal compared to historical values:

The problem is low wages. We MUST increase minimum wage for things to really get better.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 3
#23437677 - 07/13/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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Morel Guy said: If it were a true democracy we would go online everyday or once a week and log into a voters account voting away as we wish.
Watch what you wish for:
Quote:
Today most Americans (51%) now support banning Muslims entering the United States
.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/28/divide-muslim-neighborhood-patrols/
For decades Americans would have voted to keep interracial or gay marriage illegal. Should that have been up to the voters?
Civil rights dont (or rather, shouldnt) require majority approval. Thats why gay marriage is legal even in Mississippi.
--------------------
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: You must be a delicate 'lil flower if that insulted you.
More insults from the self proclaimed adult in the room. 
I don't think anyone's hurt. Just pointing out that you're the child in the discussion.
Coming from a child that doesn't count for much. You and just about everyone else in this forum does the same.
Sound familiar?...
Quote:
You're not smart enough to argue with what people post so you argue with what you make believe they post.
Quote:
You are a living facepalm.
Quote:

Quote:
or are you not smart enough?
Quote:
They call him hostileuniverse.
which was in response to "What do they call someone who pretend like he's ignorant about what people have discussed?"
Come back and play again when you aren't doing the same.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23437783 - 07/13/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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Morel Guy said: If it were a true democracy we would go online everyday or once a week and log into a voters account voting away as we wish.
Watch what you wish for:
Quote:
Today most Americans (51%) now support banning Muslims entering the United States
.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/28/divide-muslim-neighborhood-patrols/
For decades Americans would have voted to keep interracial or gay marriage illegal. Should that have been up to the voters?
Civil rights dont (or rather, shouldnt) require majority approval. Thats why gay marriage is legal even in Mississippi.
And there are many who disagree. The point was that people don't always vote for doing the right thing or make the right choices. Were weed laws the right thing? How many years were there that people would have voted against legalization? That's still the case in many states. How many would have voted to stifle free speech (depending on the subject)?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Morel Guy
Stranger


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23437842 - 07/13/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Shit, how many would vote for segregation or slavery?
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Douglas Howard said: About him creating jobs; all he has done is to cut the hours into halves, and so now, the eight hours shift is shared by two people. And made it hard for those that receives unemployment insurance, that they can only receive it for a couple of month then they are not recorded in the statistic of not employed americans even if they has not found a job. They become invisible. And so now, we has eight people that are sharing an eight hour shift and a fake report about the unemployment rate has drop even though the invisible or the unmentionables ones that are unemployed has increased.
Obama hasn't done any of those things. That's just republicans whining about how much better things are now than they were when Obama first took office. Granted, things can and should get better, but eight people are NOT sharing a single shift (or even two people for that matter). Rules for counting unemployment haven't changed.
And if don't like the official U3 unemployment figure, feel free to use U6 unemployment, as that factors in discouraged workers, marginally attached workers, and those workers who are forced to work part-time for economic reasons. U6 is back to normal compared to historical values:

The problem is low wages. We MUST increase minimum wage for things to really get better.
and that is a No-No.. That is what hillary is trying to do. Do you know why the gas prices were raise eventhough the oil prices are low? A lot of people were laid off when the price of oil went down because there were a lot of people that received raises but the oil companies couldn't afford to pay them the salary in order to stay in competition with other companies. Once you raises up the wages, everything else will be raise as well. and it will have to stay there eventhough if the economy flops. then it will be a lot of people out of work while fuel prices are high. Cost of living all must go down and remove some of these unnecessary government jobs. We cannot afford to pay school teachers at the moment, but what makes you think that we will be able to afford them when the wages are increased. Do you believe that a school teacher the is a profession would like to work for minimum wage? Like I said that corporation want the wages to go up so that they can start putting something out on the market that people has enough money to afford and they can make a profit from it as well. Pretty soon they will make a meat crisis that the price of meat will go up and then have us to believe that they has an cheaper version to put onto the market. But at this moment, that cheaper version is expensive to put onto the market. It is a lot of money to produce gmo's but by them making these crisis by raising inflation, then it will be cheaper, that we need them to save the day. Why is organic food products are cheaper in third world countries but expensive here?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Douglas Howard] 1
#23437864 - 07/13/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Douglas Howard said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The problem is low wages. We MUST increase minimum wage for things to really get better.
and that is a No-No..
It's working out well in the places that implemented higher minimum wages. Oil workers weren't making minimum wage by the way; they got big wages to attract them to undesirable locations like North Dakota. The low oil prices were the result of over supply.
Giving people more money to spend certainly won't hurt the economy. Again, just look at all the places that have already implemented higher minimum wages.
I look at what works in practice rather than what some people theorize.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23437913 - 07/13/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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luvdemshrooms said: You must be a delicate 'lil flower if that insulted you.
More insults from the self proclaimed adult in the room. 
I don't think anyone's hurt. Just pointing out that you're the child in the discussion.
Coming from a child that doesn't count for much. You and just about everyone else in this forum does the same.
Sound familiar?...
Quote:
You're not smart enough to argue with what people post so you argue with what you make believe they post.
Quote:
You are a living facepalm.
Quote:

Quote:
or are you not smart enough?
Quote:
They call him hostileuniverse.
which was in response to "What do they call someone who pretend like he's ignorant about what people have discussed?"
Come back and play again when you aren't doing the same.
you're not wrong, I think falcon could work on that, I think I could do better as well.
But, let's not deflect to others and take responsibility for ourselves.
Past that, can you provide a basis for your dislike of direct democracy w/o insulting others or are you not concerned with conversation and more so here just blurting your feelings out at people?
I have a feeling that you can't separate the insults from your beliefs on this one, which really devalues your opinions here.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay]
#23437956 - 07/13/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
can you provide a basis for your dislike of direct democracy
Go back and read.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Douglas Howard said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The problem is low wages. We MUST increase minimum wage for things to really get better.
and that is a No-No..
It's working out well in the places that implemented higher minimum wages. Oil workers weren't making minimum wage by the way; they got big wages to attract them to undesirable locations like North Dakota. The low oil prices were the result of over supply.
Giving people more money to spend certainly won't hurt the economy. Again, just look at all the places that have already implemented higher minimum wages.
I look at what works in practice rather than what some people theorize.
Iran Nuclear Deal Equals Lower Oil Prices http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2015/07/17/iran-nuclear-deal-oil-prices/
http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/25/investing/oil-iran/index.html
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Did-The-Saudis-And-The-US-Collude-In-Dropping-Oil-Prices.html
Here's someone else opinion why. But the reason is that the laborers are getting more while the price of the product going down. Let's say that I am an store owner that sell split pea soup at $5 a bowl. But I pays my employees $15 an hour. But the price of peas has dropped down to the lowest that it ever had been before. And now my competitors are selling their pea soup for $1 a bowl. And now that means that I am going to have to down size because I cannot pay all my employees top wage anymore. Useless they all agree to take a pay cut. But the cost of living remains the same. And so I have to tell the peas company to raise the price of peas all over the world so that I can still pay my employees the same wage. Unless the cost of living drops.
Why Is Gas Price Remaining High When Oil Price Is Going Down? http://oil-price.net/en/articles/why-is-gas-price-high-when-oil-price-down.php
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23438279 - 07/13/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
this is an insult, all personal subjective judgements and doesn't tell me anything more than how you feel about the masses. It also shows a high likelihood of non-cooperation on your part too. Surely, this isn't what you meant with go back and read is it?
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23438507 - 07/13/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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Bigbadwooof said: I'm not agreeing, or disagreeing, however, I would like to say at least, that people would be far more involved, and informed, if we did have a direct democracy.
It would interfere with the favorite TV shows. People would remain... people.
I think people would try to be informed on issues they were voting on, but this is just a matter of opinion.
I just wanna throw it out there that... I'm a delicate little flower, also.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Douglas Howard] 1
#23438524 - 07/13/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Douglas Howard said: Let's say that I am an store owner that sell split pea soup at $5 a bowl. But I pays my employees $15 an hour. But the price of peas has dropped down to the lowest that it ever had been before.
Then you'll be able to sell your soup for the lowest price that it ever had been before also.
Quote:
Douglas Howard said: And now my competitors are selling their pea soup for $1 a bowl. And now that means that I am going to have to down size because I cannot pay all my employees top wage anymore. Useless they all agree to take a pay cut.
But this discussion is about minimum wage. If minimum wage is $15/hr for everyone, then your competitors wouldn't be able to cut their prices below yours.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
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^ plus once trump builds his wall the illegal labor market will simply cease to exist.
--------------------
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Morel Guy
Stranger


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23440282 - 07/14/16 08:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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There are already walls at the border and they blow torch holes in those.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23440363 - 07/14/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: ^ plus once trump builds his wall the illegal labor market will simply cease to exist.
I'd rather have US citizens working under the table instead of illegals, I think you can understand why that result is better for US workers.
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qman
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy]
#23440368 - 07/14/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: There are already walls at the border and they blow torch holes in those.
There's little border enforcement, that's going to change along with the hiring of illegals and the handing out the freebies.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: qman] 1
#23440415 - 07/14/16 10:04 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: I'd rather have US citizens working under the table instead of illegals, I think you can understand why that result is better for US workers.
I actually don't understand why it would be better for US workers to work under the table. So employees don't have to pay them minimum wage? So they don't get benefits?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay]
#23440452 - 07/14/16 10:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
this is an insult, all personal subjective judgements and doesn't tell me anything more than how you feel about the masses. It also shows a high likelihood of non-cooperation on your part too. Surely, this isn't what you meant with go back and read is it?
It is.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'd rather have US citizens working under the table instead of illegals, I think you can understand why that result is better for US workers.
I actually don't understand why it would be better for US workers to work under the table. So employees don't have to pay them minimum wage? So they don't get benefits? 
Seriously.
I hope qman hasnt used all 3 wishes on that magic lamp he found, because then we could be a nation of 300,000,000 small business owners.
--------------------
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'd rather have US citizens working under the table instead of illegals, I think you can understand why that result is better for US workers.
I actually don't understand why it would be better for US workers to work under the table. So employees don't have to pay them minimum wage? So they don't get benefits? 
You don't know why it's better that a US citizen is working a job instead of an illegal working that very same job? Because employing US citizens is a priority for the US economy, it's not the goal to employ illegals.
The fact that the employment is under the table has nothing to do with the fact that US citizens should be working that job instead of illegals. Some people work under the table at rates double or triple the minimum wage.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23440491 - 07/14/16 10:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'd rather have US citizens working under the table instead of illegals, I think you can understand why that result is better for US workers.
I actually don't understand why it would be better for US workers to work under the table. So employees don't have to pay them minimum wage? So they don't get benefits? 
Seriously.
I hope qman hasnt used all 3 wishes on that magic lamp he found, because then we could be a nation of 300,000,000 small business owners.
I have no idea the point you're trying to make, I believe the US citizens should be working jobs in the US over people who illegally enter the US, do you disagree with that sentiment?
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Douglas Howard
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There's still is going to be migrant workers, but they all will have to be documented. The illegals are not, and if they does a crime, that there's no way to track them down. The only ones that want the illegals here, are the ones that are having them to smuggle in drugs or having them to work for very low wages and perform all sort of sexual acts but they cannot get help from law enforcement. They are basically will be treated as slaves that can bring drugs in and cannot be convicted but deported back to there country. Locking up most immigrants is like sending them to a resort. Our prison system is way better than theirs. Our compared to there's is like living at the Ritz. Cannot understand why it is a bid deal to have our borders controlled. You cannot enter the Whitehouse without an I.D. Almost every place we go that we must carry identification to prove whom we are. If you doesn't carry your I.D. that you will be taken down town to prove whom you are that if there has been suspicious activity or a crime comitted in the area.
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Morel Guy
Stranger


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: qman]
#23440526 - 07/14/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Never seen border wars on TV? There are huge amounts of border enforcement. It's basically an army patrolling intercepting people and contraband 24/7. It's just the shear determination and numbers game that things get thru. Trying to stop this is like trying to stop the VC. Politically it cannot last forever. Best thing would be to legalize and regulate courteously drug production within the states.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: qman] 1
#23440659 - 07/14/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'd rather have US citizens working under the table instead of illegals, I think you can understand why that result is better for US workers.
I actually don't understand why it would be better for US workers to work under the table. So employees don't have to pay them minimum wage? So they don't get benefits? 
You don't know why it's better that a US citizen is working a job instead of an illegal working that very same job? Because employing US citizens is a priority for the US economy, it's not the goal to employ illegals.
The fact that the employment is under the table has nothing to do with the fact that US citizens should be working that job instead of illegals. Some people work under the table at rates double or triple the minimum wage.
So its alright for employers to participate in illegal labor practices, but not the laborers.
America
--------------------
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23440874 - 07/14/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'd rather have US citizens working under the table instead of illegals, I think you can understand why that result is better for US workers.
I actually don't understand why it would be better for US workers to work under the table. So employees don't have to pay them minimum wage? So they don't get benefits? 
You don't know why it's better that a US citizen is working a job instead of an illegal working that very same job? Because employing US citizens is a priority for the US economy, it's not the goal to employ illegals.
The fact that the employment is under the table has nothing to do with the fact that US citizens should be working that job instead of illegals. Some people work under the table at rates double or triple the minimum wage.
So its alright for employers to participate in illegal labor practices, but not the laborers.
America 
Never said it was "alright", just preferable to illegals working that job instead of an American.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: qman] 1
#23440886 - 07/14/16 01:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: You don't know why it's better that a US citizen is working a job instead of an illegal working that very same job? Because employing US citizens is a priority for the US economy, it's not the goal to employ illegals.
You keep making the false assumption that the number of jobs is finite. The more workers we have, the more money gets spent, the more jobs are created. That's why the unemployment rate stays relatively constant even as the population goes up.
Illegal workers may drive wages down in fields like agriculture, gardening, and child care, but those are jobs few legal citizens want. It's also why we need a higher minimum wage, and why we don't want US workers to work under the table.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: You don't know why it's better that a US citizen is working a job instead of an illegal working that very same job? Because employing US citizens is a priority for the US economy, it's not the goal to employ illegals.
You keep making the false assumption that the number of jobs is finite. The more workers we have, the more money gets spent, the more jobs are created. That's why the unemployment rate stays relatively constant even as the population goes up.
Illegal workers may drive wages down in fields like agriculture, gardening, and child care, but those are jobs few legal citizens want. It's also why we need a higher minimum wage, and why we don't want US workers to work under the table.
"The more workers we have, the more money gets spend, the more jobs are created"
It's a mis-allocation of resources to have poor people coming into the US to work low wage jobs and then burden the taxpayer for their survival, your fantasy version of this economic utopia is delusional.
"unemployment stays constant even as the population goes up"
That's true, but due to globalization we are shipping jobs out of the US therefore making more competition for the jobs that remain in the US, we don't need more workers relative to jobs.
"Illegal workers may drive down wages in fields like agriculture, gardening, and child care"
Total nonsense, the open door policy is too drive down wages for ALL US workers, mission accomplished!! When you flood the low-skilled labor markets, you force workers to gain skills and education, as a result you end up flooding those markets and driving those wages lower.
The corporate elites didn't force the R's and D's to maintain an open border for cheaper agriculture and gardening, it's too lower everyone's wages.
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Morel Guy
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: qman]
#23440975 - 07/14/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Agriculture seems to be one industry that doesn't require minimum wage. I've picked strawberries and paid by the pint. I was a minor too!
I'd love to hire some illegals and grow some stuff.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: qman] 1
#23440978 - 07/14/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "The more workers we have, the more money gets spend, the more jobs are created"
It's a mis-allocation of resources to have poor people coming into the US to work low wage jobs and then burden the taxpayer for their survival, your fantasy version of this economic utopia is delusional.
The only delusional fantasy is your straw man argument. I'm the one calling for a higher minimum wage so that taxpayers AREN'T burdened to pay for anyone's survival.
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qman said: "unemployment stays constant even as the population goes up"
That's true, but due to globalization we are shipping jobs out of the US therefore making more competition for the jobs that remain in the US, we don't need more workers relative to jobs.
I've shown you many times that the unemployment rate isn't a problem in the US today; low wages are. Hence, the call for a higher minimum wage.
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qman said: "Illegal workers may drive down wages in fields like agriculture, gardening, and child care"
Total nonsense, the open door policy is too drive down wages for ALL US workers, mission accomplished!! When you flood the low-skilled labor markets, you force workers to gain skills and education, as a result you end up flooding those markets and driving those wages lower.
Another strong argument for an increased minimum wage.
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qman said: The corporate elites didn't force the R's and D's to maintain an open border for cheaper agriculture and gardening, it's too lower everyone's wages.
I would argue it's the former. Regardless, this is yet ANOTEHR argument in favor of a higher minimum wage.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Morel Guy
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If you really do not want taxpayers paying for someone's survival you better come up with ways to support embryo screening and preventing all other accidents.
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qman
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A higher minimum wage doesn't stop illegals from flooding the labor markets and keeping wages low. Boot the illegals and then hike the minimum wage.
We are supporting the cheap imported labor for the elites which lowers our own wages, don't you see how harmful that policy is for US citizens?
The working class pays for their health care, education, food stamps, public housing, welfare, and criminal justice services regardless of what happens. Moving the minimum wage higher is like putting a bandaid on a gun shot wound.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23441171 - 07/14/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Morel Guy said: If you really do not want taxpayers paying for someone's survival you better come up with ways to support embryo screening and preventing all other accidents.
The context was clearly with respect to welfare.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Morel Guy
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Yes but not all welfar is due to social disparity. There are many people born with or who develope disabilities. Disability is a form of welfare payment.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: qman] 1
#23441231 - 07/14/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: A higher minimum wage doesn't stop illegals from flooding the labor markets and keeping wages low.
A higher minimum wage DOES stop wages from being low. If the minimum wage is $15/hr, no one will make less than that.
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qman said: Boot the illegals and then hike the minimum wage.
Why not hike the minimum wage first? Is it really more important to you to stop the flow of dark skinned people than to increase people's wages?
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qman said: We are supporting the cheap imported labor for the elites which lowers our own wages, don't you see how harmful that policy is for US citizens?
A higher minimum wage fixes that. Do you seriously think if illegals are removed, corporations will reward everyone with big raises? We don't currently have an over-supply of labor; it's already been shown that unemployment, including U6, is back to normal.
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qman said: The working class pays for their health care, education, food stamps, public housing, welfare, and criminal justice services regardless of what happens.
Illegals don't get food stamps, public housing, or welfare.
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qman said: Moving the minimum wage higher is like putting a bandaid on a gun shot wound.
The beauty is that we have empirical evidence regarding the effects of a higher minimum wage. Places that have implemented it are doing well.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (07/14/16 04:15 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23441237 - 07/14/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: Yes but not all welfar is due to social disparity. There are many people born with or who develope disabilities. Disability is a form of welfare payment.
It was qman's point that he doesn't want to pay for people's survival. I guess we'll have to ask him if he was including people with disability.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Morel Guy
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There is medical disability then there is something else like almost a cultural disability. People born into poverty and crime that just extend the legacy. Born with the choice but also influence.
There is genetics and nurturing. Seems people don't want to help out and keep alive those that received a raw deal.
Edited by Morel Guy (07/14/16 04:41 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy] 3
#23441391 - 07/14/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: There is medical disability then there is something else like almost a cultural disability. People born into poverty and crime that just extend the legacy. Born with the choice but also influence.
There is genetics and nurturing. Seems people don't want to help out and keep alive those that received a raw deal.
To those people I say... tough fucking shit. Bunch of whiney selfish cocksuckers. We could do with less of them. No man is an island.
So yes, as a civilized society, we care for our disabled. We ought to take better care of our veterans also, but there is no doubt that their welfare is rightfully considered a matter of public responsibility in our 'culture'. The glorified individualist ideals of the right wing are purely fictional, and can't exist in the real world. Not in a functional, modern society.
To those who feel we should not publicly care for the disabled, I say:
Go fuck yourself, Carlin style.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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katsung47
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23444932 - 07/15/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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In U.S. terror power overrules the money (7/11/2016)
U.S. is a money dominated country. The principle is broken in this campaign. It was found by a Trump supporter.
Quote:
Is Money no longer king of the Presidential election? Look at this, Hillary has spent 60 million dollars in ad buys so far against Trump. Trump has spent ZERO!! Yet latest polls show a statistical TIE between them! This is the same thing that happened to Jeb Bush, against Trump! Money versus message. Looks like message is winning! What is your take? GO TRUMP!!
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=351411#ixzz4DGLlReIS
What message has Trump brought to us? Nothing constructive but a lot of abuse.
This "Money is king" rule will be broken in this president election. Because the Feds want to have their own candidate- Donald Trump to get that seat. So whatever happens - short of campaign money, it doesn't matter. You see what happens -Clinton has to buy ads with money, Trump gets it free. Because the media is controlled by the Feds.
This country is ruled by the Feds. They rule the country by controlled intelligence and media. They select politicians through rigged election and justify the election result through the fake poll done by media.
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laughingdog
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: katsung47]
#23448531 - 07/17/16 01:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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it never was a democracy
it's a republic
ever heard of this?
The Pledge of Allegiance I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Douglas Howard
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: laughingdog]
#23448957 - 07/17/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Section 2 1: The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature. http://constitutionus.com/
Lincoln also memorialized the sacrifices of those who gave their lives at Gettysburg and extolled virtues for the listeners (and the nation) to ensure the survival of America's representative democracy: that "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address
Simple Definition of republic : a country that is governed by elected representatives and by an elected leader (such as a president) rather than by a king or queen
"Son of the Republic," said the same mysterious voice as before, "look and learn." At that moment I beheld a dark, shadowy being, like an angel, standing or rather floating in mid-air, between Europe and America. Dipping water out of the ocean in the hollow of each hand, he sprinkled some upon America with his right hand, while with his left hand he cast some on Europe. Immediately a cloud raised from these countries, and joined in mid-ocean. For a while it remained stationary, and then moved slowly westward, until it enveloped America in its murky folds. Sharp flashes of lightning gleamed through it at intervals, and I heard the smothered groans and cries of the American people.
A second time the angel dipped water from the ocean, and sprinkled it out as before. The dark cloud was then drawn back to the ocean, in whose heaving billows in sank from view. A third time I heard the mysterious voice saying, "Son of the Republic, look and learn," I cast my eyes upon America and beheld villages and towns and cities springing up one after another until the whole land from the Atlantic to the Pacific was dotted with them. http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/vision.html
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airclay
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23448960 - 07/17/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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so tired of dolts with half an idea just blathering shit out https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/
Quote:
I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that. A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.
The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote. Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it’s only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But we are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.
And indeed the American form of government has been called a “democracy” by leading American statesmen and legal commentators from the Framing on. It’s true that some Framing-era commentators made arguments that distinguished “democracy” and “republic”; see, for instance, The Federalist (No. 10), though even that first draws the distinction between “pure democracy” and a “republic,” only later just saying “democracy.” But even in that era, “representative democracy” was understood as a form of democracy, alongside “pure democracy”: John Adams used the term “representative democracy” in 1794; so did Noah Webster in 1785; so did St. George Tucker in his 1803 edition of Blackstone; so did Thomas Jefferson in 1815. Tucker’s Blackstone likewise uses “democracy” to describe a representative democracy, even when the qualifier “representative” is omitted.
Likewise, James Wilson, one of the main drafters of the Constitution and one of the first Supreme Court Justices, defended the Constitution in 1787 by speaking of the three forms of government being the “monarchical, aristocratical, and democratical,” and said that in a democracy the sovereign power is “inherent in the people, and is either exercised by themselves or by their representatives.” And Chief Justice John Marshall — who helped lead the fight in the 1788 Virginia Convention for ratifying the U.S. Constitution — likewise defended the Constitution in that convention by describing it as implementing “democracy” (as opposed to “despotism”), and without the need to even add the qualifier “representative.”
To be sure, in addition to being a representative democracy, the United States is also a constitutional democracy, in which courts restrain in some measure the democratic will. And the United States is therefore also a constitutional republic. Indeed, the United States might be labeled a constitutional federal representative democracy. But where one word is used, with all the oversimplification that this necessary entails, “democracy” and “republic” both work. Indeed, since direct democracy — again, a government in which all or most laws are made by direct popular vote — would be impractical given the number and complexity of laws that pretty much any state or national government is expected to enact, it’s unsurprising that the qualifier “representative” would often be omitted. Practically speaking, representative democracy is the only democracy that’s around at any state or national level.
Now one can certainly argue that some aspects of U.S. government should become less direct, and filtered through more layers of representation. One can argue, for instance, that the 17th Amendment should be repealed, and that U.S. senators should no longer be elected directly by the people, but should return to being elected by state legislators who are elected by the people. Or one can argue for repealing state- and local-level initiative and referendum schemes. Or one can argue for making the Electoral College into a deliberative body, in which the electors are supposed to discuss the candidates and make various political deals, rather than being elected solely to vote for particular candidates. And of course one can equally argue for making some aspects of U.S. government more direct, for instance by shifting to truly direct election of the president, or by institute a federal-level initiative and referendum.
But there is no basis for saying that the United States is somehow “not a democracy, but a republic.” “Democracy” and “republic” aren’t just words that a speaker can arbitrarily define to mean something (e.g., defining democracy as “a form of government in which all laws are made directly by the people”). They are terms that have been given meaning by English speakers more broadly. And both today and in the Framing era, “democracy” has been generally understood to include representative democracy as well as direct democracy.
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luvdemshrooms said:
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airclay said:
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luvdemshrooms said: Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
this is an insult, all personal subjective judgements and doesn't tell me anything more than how you feel about the masses. It also shows a high likelihood of non-cooperation on your part too. Surely, this isn't what you meant with go back and read is it?
It is.
ah so you can't separate your feelings from your ideas. Demonstrating your ineptness when it comes to anything requiring objective thinking.
Edited by airclay (07/17/16 07:41 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay]
#23450254 - 07/17/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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And yet it's still a republic. This isn't a feeling or a belief.
re·pub·lic rəˈpəblik/ noun noun: republic; plural noun: republics
a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
Full Definition of democracy plural democracies
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
As we do use elected representatives and we do not have rule of the majority, a republic, for which it stands... is what we have.
And it's not impossible for ideas to coincide with feelings or vise-versa. The American people are not well informed enough to rule by majority. You bitterness doesn't and won't change that.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Morel Guy
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23450641 - 07/17/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's why there is an electoral college.
I think we live in an age where people can be informed. It's just that people hold onto false information received via someones stupid face.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23451902 - 07/18/16 05:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: so tired of dolts with half an idea just blathering shit out https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/
Quote:
I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that. A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: And yet it's still a republic. This isn't a feeling or a belief.
re·pub·lic rəˈpəblik/ noun noun: republic; plural noun: republics
a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
Full Definition of democracy plural democracies
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
As we do use elected representatives and we do not have rule of the majority, a republic, for which it stands... is what we have.
And it's not impossible for ideas to coincide with feelings or vise-versa. The American people are not well informed enough to rule by majority. You bitterness doesn't and won't change that.
did you not read what I posted? you just fell into it like a trap dude.
NEXT
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
Edited by airclay (07/18/16 05:54 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay]
#23452134 - 07/18/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I read your post. I laughed at it.
I'm still laughing.
You seem to have a hard time dealing with people disagreeing with you.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23452968 - 07/18/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: I read your post. I laughed at it.
I'm still laughing.
You seem to have a hard time dealing with people disagreeing with you.
I don't know why you're laughing. Airclay is correct. In fact, another term for a Republic is a 'Representative Democracy'. I often hear people say 'we're not a democracy, we're a republic', and I find it to be about as odd as saying 'It's not an automobile, it's a Ford!'. A Ford is a specific kind of automobile, but it is still an automobile.
In fact, this is why we use the term 'Direct Democracy', to define a different type of Democracy. As far as I am aware, those are the only two kinds of democracy. Representative, and direct. I'm sure I am probably wrong about that though.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/18/16 01:40 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23453067 - 07/18/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I don't know why you're laughing.
Because we are a republic and not a democracy. It's just that simple.
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I often hear people say 'we're not a democracy, we're a republic', and I find it to be about as odd as saying 'It's not an automobile, it's a Ford!'.
And the people you hear say that are correct.
We started out as a republic and remain one to this day.
The difference is clear...
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ThisNation.com--Is the United States a democracy?
The Pledge of Allegiance includes the phrase: "and to the republic for which it stands." Is the United States of America a republic? I always thought it was a democracy? What's the difference between the two?
The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (Federalist No. 10).
By popular usage, however, the word "democracy" come to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. In this sense the United States might accurately be called a democracy. However, there are examples of "pure democracy" at work in the United States today that would probably trouble the Framers of the Constitution if they were still alive to see them. Many states allow for policy questions to be decided directly by the people by voting on ballot initiatives or referendums. (Initiatives originate with, or are initiated by, the people while referendums originate with, or are referred to the people by, a state's legislative body.) That the Constitution does not provide for national ballot initiatives or referendums is indicative of the Framers' opposition to such mechanisms. They were not confident that the people had the time, wisdom or level-headedness to make complex decisions, such as those that are often presented on ballots on election day.
Writing of the merits of a republican or representative form of government, James Madison observed that one of the most important differences between a democracy and a republic is "the delegation of the government [in a republic] to a small number of citizens elected by the rest." The primary effect of such a scheme, Madison continued, was to:
. . . refine and enlarge the public views by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the same purpose (Federalist No. 10).
Later, Madison elaborated on the importance of "refining and enlarging the public views" through a scheme of representation:
There are particular moments in public affairs when the people, stimulated by some irregular passion, or some illicit advantage, or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men, may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be most ready to lament and condemn. In these critical moments, how salutary will be the interference of some temperate and respectable body of citizens, in order to check the misguided career and to suspend the blow meditated by the people against themselves, until reason, justice and truth can regain their authority over the public mind(Federalist No. 63).
In the strictest sense of the word, the system of government established by the Constitution was never intended to be a "democracy." This is evident not only in the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance but in the Constitution itself which declares that "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government" (Article IV, Section 4). Moreover, the scheme of representation and the various mechanisms for selecting representatives established by the Constitution were clearly intended to produce a republic, not a democracy.
To the extent that the United States of America has moved away from its republican roots and become more "democratic," it has strayed from the intentions of the Constitution's authors. Whether or not the trend toward more direct democracy would be smiled upon by the Framers depends on the answer to another question. Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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The Ecstatic
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23453374 - 07/18/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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at the claim that the average American today is less informed than the average American from the 1700s.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23453418 - 07/18/16 04:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Since the claim wasn't that the average American is less informed, but rather...
'Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s?'
...your laughter is misplaced.
Are they 'sufficiently better informed' ≠ they are 'less informed'.
As I have no idea how well Americans in the 1700's knew the difference between a republic and a democracy, I can't say today they are less informed. However, that so many don't know the difference causes me to wonder.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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The Ecstatic
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23453512 - 07/18/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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"An emphatic no."
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23453538 - 07/18/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: "An emphatic no."

The problem with only reading the words you wish to read are that you wind up not grasping the entire context.
Quote:
"Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."
Which of course still doesn't mean 'less informed'.
Let me simplify the authors words for you...
'Are Americans today better informed?'
'No.'
Better?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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The Ecstatic
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23453698 - 07/18/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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How you or the author can emphatically declare that is beyond me.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23453722 - 07/18/16 05:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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As it took several posts for you to grasp the he didn't say 'less informed... I'm not surprised.
And he states it as his opinion. How is that 'beyond' you?
Also, I never 'emphatically' declared anything. However, you may be operating under a misinterpretation of what I actually said, which was "However, that so many don't know the difference causes me to wonder." Which part of that sentence comes across to you as emphatic?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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The Ecstatic
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23453752 - 07/18/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."
How emphatically no?
Which accounts?
At the absolute least, theres an argument to be made that advances in average education level, as well as technological advances, has "sufficiently better informed" the average American citizen past the "informed" mark of the average 1700's American citizen. Yes?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23453893 - 07/18/16 06:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."
How emphatically no?
Ask the author.
Quote:
Which accounts?
Ask the author.
Quote:
At the absolute least, theres an argument to be made that advances in average education level, as well as technological advances, has "sufficiently better informed" the average American citizen past the "informed" mark of the average 1700's American citizen. Yes?
Neither you nor I can say with certainty, but in political matters and interest... my feeling is he's on the mark. It's been my observation over the years that the average American doesn't care and/or is woefully uninformed about politics.
Ask 10 random people who their state legislator is. I know mine. I suspect you know yours. But I doubt you'd find a majority who did.
Ask them to name 5 SCJ's.
When it comes to politics... Americans should be embarrassed.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23453963 - 07/18/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."
How emphatically no?
Ask the author.
Quote:
Which accounts?
Ask the author.
Quote:
At the absolute least, theres an argument to be made that advances in average education level, as well as technological advances, has "sufficiently better informed" the average American citizen past the "informed" mark of the average 1700's American citizen. Yes?
Neither you nor I can say with certainty, but in political matters and interest... my feeling is he's on the mark. It's been my observation over the years that the average American doesn't care and/or is woefully uninformed about politics.
Ask 10 random people who their state legislator is. I know mine. I suspect you know yours. But I doubt you'd find a majority who did.
Ask them to name 5 SCJ's.
When it comes to politics... Americans should be embarrassed.
That's not just Americans. Every country has ignorant/stupid people.
I would say that millennials are very interested in politics, and do their best to be informed. I would also say that many of them are "informed" by assholes like Alex Jones, Stephen Crowder and Stefan Molyneux... On the left you have partisan hacks like Cenk Yuger "Informing" people. While he is a lot better, there is much to be desired. Combine that with an older generation who is "informed" by Hannity, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh, and you have a recipe for... well.. Donald Trump.
In order to have a well-informed public, we need a healthy media. How we go about getting there is beyond me. What I will say is that millennials are the most highly educated generation this country has ever seen, I believe they are the largest generation this country has ever seen, and they are better informed than their predecessors due to modern technology. The internet has sparked people's interest in politics, who would have never before been interested, because they are confronted with political dialogue far more often.
I don't see how a case could possibly be made that we are not becoming increasingly well equipped to make sound judgements on political issues. Especially moreso than the uneducated witch-hunters 250 years ago.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23453985 - 07/18/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree with lds' general sentiment, I just think he's underestimating how uninformed the average 1700's American was.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23454003 - 07/18/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
That's not just Americans. Every country has ignorant/stupid people.
Of course, which is why I didn't suggest otherwise.
Quote:
Hannity, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh
Ah yes, the rights versions of Maddow, Harris-Perry, Blow and Coates. One group of tools steers their lemmings right, the other group of tools steers their lemmings left. Po-tay-to... pa-tah-to
Quote:
I don't see how a case could possibly be made that we are not becoming increasingly well equipped to make sound judgements on political issues.
Because people are people. As long as they are fat, dumb and happy and they can click right to Kim Kardashian's ass, they don't care. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Ask your much vaunted millennials the same questions...
Ask 10 random people who their state legislator is. Ask them to name 5 SCJ's.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23454006 - 07/18/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I agree with lds' general sentiment, I just think he's underestimating how uninformed the average 1700's American was.
And I think you're overestimating how politically informed the person of today is
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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qman
Stranger

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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23454050 - 07/18/16 07:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."
How emphatically no?
Ask the author.
Quote:
Which accounts?
Ask the author.
Quote:
At the absolute least, theres an argument to be made that advances in average education level, as well as technological advances, has "sufficiently better informed" the average American citizen past the "informed" mark of the average 1700's American citizen. Yes?
Neither you nor I can say with certainty, but in political matters and interest... my feeling is he's on the mark. It's been my observation over the years that the average American doesn't care and/or is woefully uninformed about politics.
Ask 10 random people who their state legislator is. I know mine. I suspect you know yours. But I doubt you'd find a majority who did.
Ask them to name 5 SCJ's.
When it comes to politics... Americans should be embarrassed.
That's not just Americans. Every country has ignorant/stupid people.
I would say that millennials are very interested in politics, and do their best to be informed. I would also say that many of them are "informed" by assholes like Alex Jones, Stephen Crowder and Stefan Molyneux... On the left you have partisan hacks like Cenk Yuger "Informing" people. While he is a lot better, there is much to be desired. Combine that with an older generation who is "informed" by Hannity, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh, and you have a recipe for... well.. Donald Trump.
In order to have a well-informed public, we need a healthy media. How we go about getting there is beyond me. What I will say is that millennials are the most highly educated generation this country has ever seen, I believe they are the largest generation this country has ever seen, and they are better informed than their predecessors due to modern technology. The internet has sparked people's interest in politics, who would have never before been interested, because they are confronted with political dialogue far more often.
I don't see how a case could possibly be made that we are not becoming increasingly well equipped to make sound judgements on political issues. Especially moreso than the uneducated witch-hunters 250 years ago.
"millennials are the most highly educated generation this country has ever seen"
That's true in general, but in politics I would debate that theory. The WW 2 generation was very educated after living through the Great Depression and then going to fight WW 2, those experiences can NOT be taught in the classroom by a liberal professor.
Today many people don't grow up talking about politics with their family members, they live too busy of a life on their IPhones and computers.
I have to be honest, I'm not impressed with the current generation and their knowledge on economics and politics.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23454130 - 07/18/16 08:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I agree with lds' general sentiment, I just think he's underestimating how uninformed the average 1700's American was.
And I think you're overestimating how politically informed the person of today is
Nah. I think one of the few things we can agree on is the stupidity of Joe sixpack.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23454208 - 07/18/16 08:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I agree with lds' general sentiment, I just think he's underestimating how uninformed the average 1700's American was.
And I think you're overestimating how politically informed the person of today is
Nah. I think one of the few things we can agree on is the stupidity of Joe sixpack.
Yah.
I could agree with the following...
I think one of the few things we can agree on is the stupidity of the average Joe/Jane sixpack.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Posts: 65,512
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23454366 - 07/18/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I agree with lds' general sentiment, I just think he's underestimating how uninformed the average 1700's American was.
The average 1700's American couldn't vote anyway. If we're comparing the average voter today with the average voter back then, I think the balance tips significantly in favor of the eighteenth century voter.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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ChristopherABrown
Human being


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23465817 - 07/22/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: America is not a Democracy anymore
It never was. It was started as and remains a constitutional republic.
But democratic control is implied through the Ninth Amendment and Article V.
Your points are good, but missing the fact that congress is violating the law, the constitution and their oaths with regard to Article V.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Here is an interesting article showing how Congress today completely ignores the will of the people in favor of its rich donors:
Consider: - When 91% wanted to strengthen rules on clean air and protection of drinking water, Congress – led by the Republican majority – proposed weakening them; - When 90% wanted to protect public lands and parks; the Republicans proposed putting them on sale or otherwise privatizing them; - When 74% of Americans favored ending subsidies to big oil, Congress retained most of them; - At a time when the majority of citizens favored allowing tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 to expire, the best Congress could do was to compromise on $400,000; - When 70% of Americans said climate change should be a high priority issue, Congress took no action; - Some 80% of Americans favor shoring up Social Security even if it means higher taxes and a similar number support retaining Medicare as is, but the Obama administration has twice offered cuts to both programs as part of a “grand bargain” and Republican budgets routinely seek to privatize them; - Or take this gem … more than 80% of Americans want to clamp down on Wall Street but the best we could get was weak-sister legislation that doesn’t even address too-big-to-fail or restore a Glass Steagall provision limiting the risks these big banks can take with your money. And even this slap-on-the-wrist legislation is being completely eviscerated as it is translated into regulations. - After Orlando, 92% of the people supported a bill expanding background checks to online purchases of guns, but Congress has been unable to pass it; - And when 85% of citizens supported a bill barring people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, Congress couldn’t pass the it;
Congress has been unconstitutional since 1911 when 2/3 of the states applied for an Article V convention to stop the federal reserve act. When 40 of the wealthiest Americans against leaving the gold standard died on the Titanic, April 15, 1912, that effort dwindled.
This letter starts a chain of events that lead to proof that our congress is unconstitutional.
http://my.firedoglake.com/danielmark...al-convention/
Can you accept that such a fact justifies that all delegates be elected in the states by the people of those states?
Because of that letter, the house finally adopts rule to count states applications for Article V.
http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-...n-applications
However, congress refused to start counting applications occuring before the letter. The speakers were sued.
http://www.foavc.org/reference/doc4.pdf
That suit, of course was denied. Government is deeply unlawful. These .pdf's by Bill Walker explain the developing status.
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file67.pdf
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file70.pdf
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file71.pdf
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file73.pdf
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file74.pdf
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file75.pdf
National Archives and Records Administration Effectively Terminates Article V Convention
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file77.pdf
http://www.foavc.org/reference/file78.pdf
-------------------- You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want. People that do not want what they need, have a problem. Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
ChristopherABrown said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: America is not a Democracy anymore
It never was. It was started as and remains a constitutional republic.
But democratic control is implied through the Ninth Amendment and Article V.
Your points are good, but missing the fact that congress is violating the law, the constitution and their oaths with regard to Article V.
I can imply my dick is 12" long but that doesn't make it so.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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ChristopherABrown
Human being


Registered: 07/22/16
Posts: 330
Loc: Santa Barbara California
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23465857 - 07/22/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
ChristopherABrown said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: America is not a Democracy anymore
It never was. It was started as and remains a constitutional republic.
But democratic control is implied through the Ninth Amendment and Article V.
Your points are good, but missing the fact that congress is violating the law, the constitution and their oaths with regard to Article V.
I can imply my dick is 12" long but that doesn't make it so.
If 3/4 of the states agree, I won't argue.
-------------------- You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want. People that do not want what they need, have a problem. Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?
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Spanishfly
$$$Rich€€€Bich£££



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How can you have the rule of the majority when more than half of you cannot actually be bothered to vote?
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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Spanishfly
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23466606 - 07/22/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: That's not just Americans. Every country has ignorant/stupid people.
But Americans have made it an art form.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Spanishfly]
#23466652 - 07/22/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said: How can you have the rule of the majority when more than half of you cannot actually be bothered to vote?
Simple. The majority of people who do vote.
If some do not wish to partake, they have made a personal choice.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23471957 - 07/24/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't understand how you can believe that your vote makes any difference whatsoever. I don't vote because I am a felon, and because the popular vote LITARALLY DOES NOT MATTER! Unless you are a part of the electoral college, your vote DOES NOT MATTER!
George Bush Jr lost a popular vote but won the election...The only instance in the history of the Nation where your single vote should have actually counted, and it didn't. Have fun being contented with the illusion of a choice, you haven't a say in anything. Republicans found that out with Ron Paul, Democrats found that out with Bernie, and everyone else is going to find that out with Hillary. People are flying around banners that say 'Hillary for prison', and the overwhelming consensus is that she cannot be trusted and is corrupt, yet somehow the DNC thinks she is their best shot at winning a genuine election? Come the fuck on. She is the predetermined winner, Trump is there to be a 'racist, sexist, bigot' and scare Democrats into accepting Clinton. Are you really under the impression that Hillary was more popular than Sanders? Do you think she won the nomination because she had the most support? Or maybe, just maybe, the game is rigged in her favor... Just maybe, she wasn't indicted because she is part of the establishment that is ushering her passed an astounded citizenry and into the Whitehouse. Just maybe, the absolute power that is the United States Federal Government, has corrupted absolutely...Just maybe.
You honestly think the people running for POTUS are the best qualified people to lead our country? You really think George Bush Jr rose the ranks of politics to single himself out as the best guy for the job? Or do you understand that George was part of a bloodline that has been in the white house for 3 generations. George Sr.'s dad was in the Roosevelt administration. You'd think that those Bush's were super competent people, with all that political success. And to think that this election was ALMOST another Bush vs another Clinton.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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Enlil
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: amp244]
#23472007 - 07/24/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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The only election that uses an electoral college is the Presidential election. That is the least important election. Your votes for local and state offices are far more important to your daily life than who becomes president
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Spanishfly]
#23472101 - 07/24/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: That's not just Americans. Every country has ignorant/stupid people.
But Americans have made it an art form.
Americans have been dumbed down intentionally. We, via the media, have been made to drool over the next Kardashian ass switching across the screen, and to be paranoid of our neighbors. We, via the educational system, have indoctrinated and dumbed down our entire population. Less than 50% of this Country's graduating PhD's were even born here.
Our society is tending more and more toward instant gratification, sex, violence, and opiates.
People don't cook because they subsist on microwavable hot pockets. Parents don't raise their children, they buy them an I-pad and let them raise themselves. They don't sit down and have dinner as a family, when you get hungry, you unwrap the hot pocket, stick it in the microwave, and press the button that has the hot pocket silhouette.
Marriages are a fucking joke in this country. Its not uncommon to find a woman with three or more different "baby-daddy's". (A baby-daddy is the father of one's children) Our gov't has a very generous entitlement program that allows people in such a situation to live quite comfortably on the charity of others. As a result, such a practice is incentivized. This is terrible for the economy. The increase in unskilled labor is far outpacing the demand for labor. This creates more competition among laborers, pushing down wages, and further ballooning welfare programs.
Our society is clearly becoming much more violent. Anyone's favorite HBO/Showtime series is proof of that. It is getting more and more gruesome every year. I remember when the walking dead came out, I noted how they weren't showing any humans being killed in gruesome fashion. It was only Zombies being stabbed through the face with fire pokers and what not. However, I saw clips of an episode that was released a few seasons later, and they are showing 5 guys being executed by being bound, knelt by a trough to collect blood, and having their skulls bashed in with baseball bats. Millions of households crowd around their televisions sets with their 11 year old kids and watch the Walking Dead.
Heroin is illegal in the U.S.. 90% of opium is grown in Afghanistan on the other side of the world. You can get heroin today in any town in America. The overwhelming majority of people who do heroin, started on prescription opiates. Prescription opiate sales have skyrocketed (tripled) following the U.S. military operations in Afghanistan. Our soldiers are now guarding the poppy fields...
Our country is made stupid on purpose. The establishment doesn't want us asking any questions. Do your job, pay your taxes, and shut the fuck up. Just drive in your Lexus, turn on your American Idol, and don't look over here while we spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year blowing up people living in clay houses and stealing their opium, lithium, and making them trade their oil for USD. You be happy and stay over there, don't look at the death and destruction your tax dollars support over here.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Enlil]
#23472133 - 07/24/16 11:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Enlil said: The only election that uses an electoral college is the Presidential election. That is the least important election. Your votes for local and state offices are far more important to your daily life than who becomes president
Are we not speaking in the context of the presidential elections? I almost added that very local and state qualifier there, but found it redundant.
And the federal gov't has much more influence over your liberties than state and local governments, for no reason other than the fact that the Federal gov't has extreme influence over those entities. It hasn't always been that way, our system was indeed designed to put more power in state and local governments. Its unfortunate that champions of big government have ruined what once was a democratic republic. Yay! Centralized power! Co-operation through coercion! Healthcare by force!
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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Enlil
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: amp244]
#23472145 - 07/24/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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First, this thread isn't about presidential elections. The OP is about Congress. Second, the federal government has far less power over your liberties. State governments can regulate almost anything. The federal government has far more limited control.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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amp244
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Enlil]
#23472177 - 07/24/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am all for voting in local elections. 100%. My tiff was with those who think they are going to elect the president with a popular vote. That's not even how it works on paper.
The states could lower their drinking age if they wanted to...Oh but the Feds wont give them any money if they do that. You must not have read my point about the Feds having extreme influence over State and local gov'ts.
The federal government has far more influence over your liberties than states and localities. If you don't like the laws in your state or locality, you can just move without much expense. You don't have to vote, you just move. It isn't as easy to change countries (assuming there are better options) if yours starts going to shit. I can't move away from Obamacare. I can't move away from federal income tax.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: amp244]
#23472220 - 07/24/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can move away from both.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Enlil]
#23472231 - 07/24/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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At a much greater expense. And me, not so much so. Because I've been arrested in VA for distribution of marijuana, I am not allowed entry into Canada. The mother fuckers searched me and everything on me (an entire suitcase of clothes, turned inside out) and turned me around at customs. Sorry, you're not allowed in Canada.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (07/24/16 12:28 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: amp244]
#23472241 - 07/24/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Canada is but one option. Still, you opted to exempt yourself from the laws of this nation instead of moving elsewhere. As a result, your freedom has been curtailed. You have no one to blame but yourself.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Enlil]
#23472356 - 07/24/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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No question about that I take and took full responsibility for my actions. I don't agree with the punishments for my crime, but I was well aware of what they were when I undertook the actions I undertook. I did my time, which was enough to straighten me out, but the Felony is permanent, and by far more severe. As a felon, I am lumped in with rapists and murderers, which in my opinion is not right.
Regardless, the argument was about moving as a means to escape government oppression/infringement of liberties. My point was demonstrating that it is much harder to move countries than states/localities. I have since moved to California where I enjoy a career as a farmer, despite my "curtailed freedom". I can still change states and localities at will and as frequently as my heart desires! I cannot, however, change countries with this level of ease, nor can I chose whatever country I want, as is evidenced by my Canada experience.
Try to become an Israeli citizen and see what happens. There's a country with no separation of church and state, that wont grant you citizenship unless you are an orthodox Jew. So even those with completely clean records, will find that they are not free to simply change nationalities at their will. http://www.moin.gov.il/Pages/default.aspx
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (07/24/16 01:25 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Spanishfly]
#23472728 - 07/24/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: That's not just Americans. Every country has ignorant/stupid people.
But Americans have made it an art form.
Yet still, Americans run the fucking world 
That's got to eat you up, huh?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/24/16 04:05 PM)
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23472892 - 07/24/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Spanishfly said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: That's not just Americans. Every country has ignorant/stupid people.
But Americans have made it an art form.
Yet still, Americans run the fucking world 
That's got to eat you up, huh?
You had meant to say corporate america runs the country. You can see that obama in this video is playing word games. That he stated that the United states has fewer Illegals than it ever has been since the Reagan era. But of course it is lower because everytime they smeaks over the border, he hurry up and give them amnesty without a background check before they are reported.
Obama Grants Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants Without Congress http://dailysignal.com/2013/08/30/obama-grants-amnesty-to-illegal-immigrants-without-congress/
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
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No, I meant to say America runs the world. We do, you know. Putin himself said we are the last remaining Super Power.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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ChristopherABrown
Human being


Registered: 07/22/16
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Loc: Santa Barbara California
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: amp244]
#23474860 - 07/25/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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amp244 said: No question about that I take and took full responsibility for my actions. I don't agree with the punishments for my crime, but I was well aware of what they were when I undertook the actions I undertook. I did my time, which was enough to straighten me out, but the Felony is permanent, and by far more severe. As a felon, I am lumped in with rapists and murderers, which in my opinion is not right.
Regardless, the argument was about moving as a means to escape government oppression/infringement of liberties. My point was demonstrating that it is much harder to move countries than states/localities. I have since moved to California where I enjoy a career as a farmer, despite my "curtailed freedom". I can still change states and localities at will and as frequently as my heart desires! I cannot, however, change countries with this level of ease, nor can I chose whatever country I want, as is evidenced by my Canada experience.
Try to become an Israeli citizen and see what happens. There's a country with no separation of church and state, that wont grant you citizenship unless you are an orthodox Jew. So even those with completely clean records, will find that they are not free to simply change nationalities at their will. http://www.moin.gov.il/Pages/default.aspx
There will be a point, if Americans are to remain free, where your record can be expunged of that felony.
America was subject to a massive fraud by a conspiracy relating to cannabis that has cost the world mightily as it was induced to abandon hemp industry largely.
America was covertly taken over after the civil war and has been used militarily to steal resource since that time. That takeover or infiltration, if it is to be stopped or ended, will only be accomplished by states citizens agreement within due legal process defending the original intents of the constitution.
This is the very first step for state citizens to reclaim their original rights and freedoms while also broadly protecting their futures.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/declarator-declare-constitutional-intent
Our agreement upon constitutional intent invokes the 9th amendment when it reaches proportions that control democracy, but it's law, not politics.
This is a summarized description of the legal due process which state citizens impose on the state with majority rule.
http://algoxy.com/law/lawfulpeacefulrevolution.html
-------------------- You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want. People that do not want what they need, have a problem. Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?
Edited by ChristopherABrown (07/25/16 09:47 AM)
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
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Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Quote:
ChristopherABrown said: There will be a point, if Americans are to remain free, where your record can be purged of that felony.
just because a felony can be expunged does not mean it is entirely removed from one's record. i don't know how it effects international travel, as i am not to that point, yet. laws vary state by state. some states there is no expunging process. in some states "expunging" only modifies one's record, though the felony still exists as a mark. in a lot of situations, the expunging is the first step towards reinstatement of rights. not all rights can be regained in all states
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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ChristopherABrown
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: demiu5]
#23474984 - 07/25/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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demiu5 said:
Quote:
ChristopherABrown said: There will be a point, if Americans are to remain free, where your record can be purged of that felony.
just because a felony can be expunged does not mean it is entirely removed from one's record. i don't know how it effects international travel, as i am not to that point, yet. laws vary state by state. some states there is no expunging process. in some states "expunging" only modifies one's record, though the felony still exists as a mark. in a lot of situations, the expunging is the first step towards reinstatement of rights. not all rights can be regained in all states
True enough. But if Americans are to remain free, states are going to agree at levels never before seen. Some international changes will be seen to accommodate the restoration of American constitutional government. I would not expect Israel to do that, but Canada probably will.
The important thing is that American self destruction down the path of consumerism ends as a form of leadership globally. Corporations bound to capitalism are not going to be able to do it completely or quickly enough.
American leadership is going to change if the human species is going to continue to evolve.
-------------------- You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want. People that do not want what they need, have a problem. Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?
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Douglas Howard
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23475639 - 07/25/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: No, I meant to say America runs the world. We do, you know. Putin himself said we are the last remaining Super Power.
We do not know what is going on around the world. They should have us watch via satellite, on close circuit T.V. when they has these negotiations. And anyone whom is representing the citizens of the U.S. cannot talk to any foreign diplomat in seclusion, that they must have a camera crew following them broad casting every single meeting live. And they cannot even go into the men or women restroom together with any foreign diplomats without the camera crew being in there with them . As Putin has been saying that our representatives has been talking to them very rudely as if we are the super power and that no other country better not forget it. We cannot be sending our people over there harassing them; or else those countries will start buying more Nukes from our businessmen to scare us out of there countries.
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Douglas Howard
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