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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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America is not a Democracy anymore 1
#23434569 - 07/12/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here is an interesting article showing how Congress today completely ignores the will of the people in favor of its rich donors:
Consider: - When 91% wanted to strengthen rules on clean air and protection of drinking water, Congress – led by the Republican majority – proposed weakening them; - When 90% wanted to protect public lands and parks; the Republicans proposed putting them on sale or otherwise privatizing them; - When 74% of Americans favored ending subsidies to big oil, Congress retained most of them; - At a time when the majority of citizens favored allowing tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 to expire, the best Congress could do was to compromise on $400,000; - When 70% of Americans said climate change should be a high priority issue, Congress took no action; - Some 80% of Americans favor shoring up Social Security even if it means higher taxes and a similar number support retaining Medicare as is, but the Obama administration has twice offered cuts to both programs as part of a “grand bargain” and Republican budgets routinely seek to privatize them; - Or take this gem … more than 80% of Americans want to clamp down on Wall Street but the best we could get was weak-sister legislation that doesn’t even address too-big-to-fail or restore a Glass Steagall provision limiting the risks these big banks can take with your money. And even this slap-on-the-wrist legislation is being completely eviscerated as it is translated into regulations. - After Orlando, 92% of the people supported a bill expanding background checks to online purchases of guns, but Congress has been unable to pass it; - And when 85% of citizens supported a bill barring people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, Congress couldn’t pass the it;
I agree. What the common man wants today is irrelevant. Congress no longer cares what the common man wants.
The only way to change this is to elect someone who doesn't take all his money from the rich. Unfortunately, Bernie just endorsed Hillary this morning.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Morel Guy
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Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Not sure they ever cared about common people as the people are today. People we much more controlled in the past. Through upbringing and public education, or lack thereof proper and true edipucation. The public has never had such extremes of views. Some people want the 1950's back and others want to grow the fuck up!
If it were a true democracy we would go online everyday or once a week and log into a voters account voting away as we wish.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: America is not a Democracy anymore
It never was. It was started as and remains a constitutional republic.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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That's right, when people are not paying attention, representatives and senators can do whatever they want. However, when people are paying attention, it's mob rule. Very often, public officials are bound by popular mandate in order to keep their jobs. But people aren't paying such close attention all the time, and, when more obscure legislation is up, naked self-interest dictates behavior to an appalling degree.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23434623 - 07/12/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Government cared about the people after WWII. Corporations retook the Government in the 80's.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Morel Guy]
#23434633 - 07/12/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: If it were a true democracy we would go online everyday or once a week and log into a voters account voting away as we wish.
Watch what you wish for:
Quote:
Today most Americans (51%) now support banning Muslims entering the United States
.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/28/divide-muslim-neighborhood-patrols/
For decades Americans would have voted to keep interracial or gay marriage illegal. Should that have been up to the voters?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: But people aren't paying such close attention all the time, and, when more obscure legislation is up, naked self-interest dictates behavior to an appalling degree.

Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23434658 - 07/12/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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What would the best system of Government look and act like?
I am all for influencing voters but it's hard to outdo the media and religious teachers. Those two groups have the most power over the entire country, competing with the military.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23434712 - 07/12/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
Have to agree.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Here is an interesting article showing how Congress today completely ignores the will of the people in favor of its rich donors:
Consider: - When 91% wanted to strengthen rules on clean air and protection of drinking water, Congress – led by the Republican majority – proposed weakening them; - When 90% wanted to protect public lands and parks; the Republicans proposed putting them on sale or otherwise privatizing them; - When 74% of Americans favored ending subsidies to big oil, Congress retained most of them; - At a time when the majority of citizens favored allowing tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 to expire, the best Congress could do was to compromise on $400,000; - When 70% of Americans said climate change should be a high priority issue, Congress took no action; - Some 80% of Americans favor shoring up Social Security even if it means higher taxes and a similar number support retaining Medicare as is, but the Obama administration has twice offered cuts to both programs as part of a “grand bargain” and Republican budgets routinely seek to privatize them; - Or take this gem … more than 80% of Americans want to clamp down on Wall Street but the best we could get was weak-sister legislation that doesn’t even address too-big-to-fail or restore a Glass Steagall provision limiting the risks these big banks can take with your money. And even this slap-on-the-wrist legislation is being completely eviscerated as it is translated into regulations. - After Orlando, 92% of the people supported a bill expanding background checks to online purchases of guns, but Congress has been unable to pass it; - And when 85% of citizens supported a bill barring people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, Congress couldn’t pass the it;
I agree. What the common man wants today is irrelevant. Congress no longer cares what the common man wants.
The only way to change this is to elect someone who doesn't take all his money from the rich. Unfortunately, Bernie just endorsed Hillary this morning.
Bernie is too old. I knew that he was going to fall for that old polls trick. The polls are not accurate. They are only used as a psychology game, to having the other person into believing that they are losing, that they should give up and hand over your votes to the other person. But Trump knows a good bluff when he see it. That is why he didn't fall for it when the polls were saying that the outcome wasn't in favor of him against the other opponents. But you can tell Bernie that he only has an half a vote, and he will believe it. Hillary probably only had an half a vote, but she and the establishments were able to trick Bernie into surrendering his votes to her. And now she has a new sucker.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#23435232 - 07/12/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
Have to agree.
so I take it you guys are big government fans huh?
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay] 1
#23435516 - 07/12/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not even a little. That's a pretty stupid statement. Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
It's a shame you needed that explained to you. Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (07/12/16 05:26 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 10 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#23435890 - 07/12/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Watch what you wish for:
Quote:
Today most Americans (51%) now support banning Muslims entering the United States
.
For decades Americans would have voted to keep interracial or gay marriage illegal. Should that have been up to the voters?
I don't really care about either of these issues. Gay marriage is a stupid issue in my opinion. It's a side issue to get keep voters uninformed and emotional. I care about economic and foreign policy issues a lot more, generally speaking.
How about this one:
Quote:
A majority of Americans continue to say marijuana use should be legal in the United States, with 58% holding that view, tying the high point in Gallup's 46-year trend.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/186260/back-legal-marijuana.aspx
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: But people aren't paying such close attention all the time, and, when more obscure legislation is up, naked self-interest dictates behavior to an appalling degree.

Direct democracy is far past moronic and well into stupid.
I'm not agreeing, or disagreeing, however, I would like to say at least, that people would be far more involved, and informed, if we did have a direct democracy. When all they do is vote once every four years, most people don't generally pay attention throughout the rest of the year.
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: America is not a Democracy anymore
It never was. It was started as and remains a constitutional republic.
We are a 'representative democracy', and clearly, from that very long list of Falcons, we are not being represented by congress. This country may not have been intended to be a direct democracy, but when you have 80%+ or even over 90% support for something, and congress does the opposite, clearly something is wrong. That is not how a representative democracy is supposed to function. Congress is not our 'daddy', and they are meant to implement the will of the people to some degree.
However, the means of controlling congress is through voting. Most Americans are either uninterested, or apathetic, and they don't vote these assholes out when they fuck us over. I, for one, will be voting against both of my Democratic Senators come November. They don't represent me.
The political upset we are seeing this election year is just a murmur compared to what we will see in the years to come. My generation is far more involved than those previous. Not because we are better, but because this country has been fucked up since we reached adulthood, and also because we have the internet to discuss these things. If it weren't for the internet, talking to you guys, and observing alternative news organizations, I wouldn't be nearly as well informed as I am. I can view the spin from 5 different news organizations, understand their biases, and compare it with youtube 'news', and forum conversations, to develop a well rounded opinion. That is a huge advantage over previous generations who would read one news source (ie, the New York Times), and get all of their information from it.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23435957 - 07/12/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Question:
1) Did your representative and Senator vote on most issues for what YOU wanted?.
2) If they didn't, did you contact them and state your views?
3) If they didn't satisfy your views, did you 'Pull the Lever' for them again, just because they are 'Democrats' or 'Republicans?'
4) Did you check the voting record of your representative and senators?
5) Did you encourage your friends to do the same?
6) Do you actually look at proposed bills, and weigh the pro's and con's? Do you then contact your Rep or Senator with your opinion?
7) Do you vote because someone makes you feel good, or because 'That guy X is a racist' or some other reason that is emotion charged?
If you can't honestly answer those questions, quit bitching. Because the people do have the power to fix and change ANYTHING they want in this country.
We've been going through this for years. And what has been the solution? Elect a guy who talks big shit, then expands government and makes more rules and regulations.
If this process has worked, why do things get more and more fucked up?
If you haven't taken all the steps in questions 1~7, quit bitching. Nothing is going to change until people do take those steps, and those that just go pull a lever because some politician talks out his ass are a big part of the problem.
YES, YES, IF WE APPLIED THOSE CRITERIA, most of the Tools who are in DC Today would be gone.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 10 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: starfire_xes]
#23435977 - 07/12/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are right. I don't call me congress people though. Maybe I should, but I doubt it will have much of an impact.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23436136 - 07/12/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Not even a little. That's a pretty stupid statement. Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
It's a shame you needed that explained to you. Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
it's a shame you need to stoop to an insult to push a little umph into your opinion. An opinion that gives way to nothing but government speaking for others.
Maybe try answering a question without insulting some one. can you present an idea and form a basis of a statement without doing so? that would be contrary to your posting methods so far.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: starfire_xes] 2
#23436149 - 07/12/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: We've been going through this for years. And what has been the solution? Elect a guy who talks big shit, then expands government and makes more rules and regulations.
No, the problem isn't government, or rules, or regulations. The problem is elected officials helping whomever gives them the most money to get elected, which isn't the common man.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay] 2
#23436185 - 07/12/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: That's a pretty stupid statement.
Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
it's a shame you need to stoop to an insult to push a little umph into your opinion. An opinion that gives way to nothing but government speaking for others.
Maybe try answering a question without insulting some one. can you present an idea and form a basis of a statement without doing so? that would be contrary to your posting methods so far.
So true.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23436991 - 07/13/16 05:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I'm not agreeing, or disagreeing, however, I would like to say at least, that people would be far more involved, and informed, if we did have a direct democracy.
It would interfere with the favorite TV shows. People would remain... people.
Quote:
When all they do is vote once every four years, most people don't generally pay attention throughout the rest of the year.
Many don't even pay attention then. They simply vote for the little R or D behind the names.
As direct democracy would need people who actually took the time... the level of uninformed people would remain about the same.
Direct democracy is as bad an idea as mandatory voting.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: America is not a Democracy anymore [Re: airclay] 1
#23436994 - 07/13/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Not even a little. That's a pretty stupid statement. Just because some realize that the average citizen is uninformed, self-centered, unthoughtful and uninterested, that doesn't make one a fan of big government.
It's a shame you needed that explained to you. Perhaps expending a modicum of thought before posting would be in your best interests.
Of course, your lack of thought quite nicely illustrates why I feel like I do.
it's a shame you need to stoop to an insult to push a little umph into your opinion. An opinion that gives way to nothing but government speaking for others.
Maybe try answering a question without insulting some one. can you present an idea and form a basis of a statement without doing so? that would be contrary to your posting methods so far.
You must be a delicate 'lil flower if that insulted you.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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