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Leastham
Mycologist



Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 126
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help
#23428970 - 07/10/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alright so here is the deal. ill number the attempts
1. GREAT Success (Spores to Grain 2 Grain) had done a PE Bulk Grow a while back and had great success 12 tubs no issues.
2. SUPER FAIL now i had tried the same process, with 6 tubs from some LC from the first run it looked healthy in WBS jar, they finished colonizing and then i mixed the coir and verm and used my steam pasteurizer that i used the first time... All ended up getting Trich... So i tossed them.
at first i thought it was the LC so i got some NEW APE spores
3. FAIL made some new jars and grain 2 grain to have a bunch more, they all colonized and before i rush in to making 6 tubs that fail again i go and get a NEW mini tub drill the holes taped them up and used the same coir i had made before since it was an extra and never was opened after... so i pasteurized it again. mixed 1 quart of spawn with about the same amount of sub, sat in dark place for about 10 days and it was fully colonized... about 3-4 days after i get Trich.
Pretty frustrated now, i think back on what i could have done wrong this time, knowing almost immediately that the old coir was probably the issue, and maybe i didnt run my pasteurizer correctly, as the jars look healthy as can be.
so i do some forum searching find some teks for coir and pasteurizing.
4. Fail this time... i mix water, coir, and verm in 2 small 2mil bags i got from uline that someone suggested works great added a square of ductape stabbed it through the center with a meat therm that was washed and cleaned with alcohol(it was new), used my pc pot stuck them in put a plate over the top(as suggested in the TEK) put it on medium till the internal temp got to 135 then killed the heat and let it sit till it was cool, used the same tub(i was told it would be fine) i scrubbed with soap and let soak in a ridiculously concentrated bleach/water bath for hours then rinsed and dried and taped up
i shower, them get my 1 quart spawn birth it into a freezer gallon bag, break it up. put latex gloves on, rip open the sub then mix the two together, 1 quart spawn, 1 quart sub, put in a dark place 72-74 degrees... Colonizes super fast and looks great then 10 days later, i add polyfil loose on top holes and a bit more stuffed on the bottom holes... Turn the 12 on 12 off in a 72-74 Degree room,
3 days in it shows signs of trich and i spot the trich YET AGAIN.
I am not to happy with myself, as i had done twelve 64 quart tubs prior easily and without a problem. flushed 3-4 times each... and have done multiple others that worked Great.
.:NOW:. i will do a 5th run these are my thoughts. 1. Try the Bucket Style of Pasteurizing (using this Tek) other than that my pasteurization process i cant figure out what could possibly be the issue.
???Questions??? 1. What are the chances its the tub after a super scrub down and a bleach bath? Because it did fail before the tub had trich in it when it was new.
2. Is it possible my coir was not mixed right the first couple of times? maybe more Verm?
3. Could my Mixture Be to Wet? I usually Squeeze it until nothing comes out
PLEASE HELP ME 

Edited by Leastham (07/10/16 10:56 AM)
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23428982 - 07/10/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's your spawn op
Your syringe must have been a bit dirty....you'll need to isolate out a few healthy sectors on agar and test them before doing another G2g.
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Leastham
Mycologist



Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 126
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23429002 - 07/10/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said: Your syringe must have been a bit dirty....you'll need to isolate out a few healthy sectors on agar and test them before doing another G2g.
even with a NEW Spore Syringe? from a vendor?
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,070
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23429536 - 07/10/16 02:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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How are you inoculating your jars?
Do you use a SHIP or do you open the jar and just squirt the spores in?
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23429569 - 07/10/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leastham said:
Quote:
HybridprX said: Your syringe must have been a bit dirty....you'll need to isolate out a few healthy sectors on agar and test them before doing another G2g.
even with a NEW Spore Syringe? from a vendor?
It's not common for vendor syringes to be contaminated but yes...could have been interduces by accident t by the vendor or it could have accidently cross contaminated at some point...
Agar is your best hope.
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TheDeathryderIsBac
Reaper



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23429581 - 07/10/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Definately the syringe. Keep in mind that there is no such thing as a sterile print, some contaminate spores will always be present. This is why spores to grain/LC is generally discouraged. Agar will save you a LOT of time and headaches.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,070
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The syringe may have been clean but your technique might be contaminating your work.
Are you using an SAB or are you doing open air?
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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Leastham
Mycologist



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: elasticaltiger]
#23430113 - 07/10/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
elasticaltiger said: Are you using an SAB or are you doing open air?
i use self sealing lids, made from silicone, with tyvek on both sides of the hole on the lid. i will be trying again my LC looks healthy and nice, and i got a few more spore syringes, also got some agar going from the original clone of the first 12 tubs, i just transferred 3 slices into some nice trays.
i dont understand how it could go so well, then with different jars and different ways of inoculation i can get the same issue everytime.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23430127 - 07/10/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leastham said: i dont understand how it could go so well, then with different jars and different ways of inoculation i can get the same issue everytime.
As said by every person who got into this in the history of this hobby.
IDK any vets who didn't start off doing open air g2gs successfully, and now they don't even bother with slightly bacterial jars.
Consider this the moment when you have to be diligent. Now that you have a huge spore load, you HAVE TO HAVE clean spawn. Not just like half clean spawn. ALWAYS start every project on agar, spores and clones. DEFINITELY do all inoculations in a SAB, PC grains for a minimum of 2 hours, NEVER trust vendor syringes, ONLY trust clean cultures on agar, ALWAYS test LC cleanliness on agar, get some better filters too.. Tyvek is shite and the pores get bigger after a couple PC cycles, and please for the love of god read up on sterile procedures. I got some of my agar procedures in the improve your sterile techniques link in my sig. Munch has some epic videos, bod(TC) has a great agar resource too.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23430187 - 07/10/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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If that LC was made with spores, it's no wonder you saw green. I wouldn't even g2g a spore inoculated jar, you're already starting out with an unreliable inoculant, last thing you want is the bacteria that accumulates during g2gs. Not to mention that 1 slip up with your master jar and every recieving jar gets fucked.
Agar wedges are your friends. There is nothing else I would rather use. The folks who complain about the time it takes for wedges to colonize a grain jar have no idea on how to rotate your tubs and how to inoculate batches of grains routinely. My contam rate has never been lower ever since I started doing just that.
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Leastham
Mycologist



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Posts: 126
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23430554 - 07/10/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: IDK any vets who didn't start off doing open air g2gs successfully, and now they don't even bother with slightly bacterial jars.
Consider this the moment when you have to be diligent. Now that you have a huge spore load, you HAVE TO HAVE clean spawn. Not just like half clean spawn. ALWAYS start every project on agar, spores and clones. DEFINITELY do all inoculations in a SAB, PC grains for a minimum of 2 hours, NEVER trust vendor syringes, ONLY trust clean cultures on agar, ALWAYS test LC cleanliness on agar, get some better filters too.. Tyvek is shite and the pores get bigger after a couple PC cycles, and please for the love of god read up on sterile procedures. I got some of my agar procedures in the improve your sterile techniques link in my sig. Munch has some epic videos, bod(TC) has a great agar resource too.
i use a glove box with alot of oust.
Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: If that LC was made with spores, it's no wonder you saw green. I wouldn't even g2g a spore inoculated jar, you're already starting out with an unreliable inoculant, last thing you want is the bacteria that accumulates during g2gs. Not to mention that 1 slip up with your master jar and every recieving jar gets fucked.
Agar wedges are your friends. There is nothing else I would rather use. The folks who complain about the time it takes for wedges to colonize a grain jar have no idea on how to rotate your tubs and how to inoculate batches of grains routinely. My contam rate has never been lower ever since I started doing just that.
i cloned one of the nicest specimens from my previous grow to make the lc.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23430560 - 07/10/16 09:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cloned to agar?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23430571 - 07/10/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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SAB > GB hands down. Oust is like super expensive compared to water and soap. Is it flammable? (I really don't use it) How do you even flame shit with a glove box?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23430589 - 07/10/16 09:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think every aerosol is flammable. Oust is kind of like foam though, it won't saturate a box with flammable gas, it settles pretty quickly.
I agree though, good sterile technique is all you need. Depending on something like oust will not get you far.
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Leastham
Mycologist



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23430617 - 07/10/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: Cloned to agar?
yes
Quote:
Mad Season said: SAB > GB hands down. Oust is like super expensive compared to water and soap. Is it flammable? (I really don't use it) How do you even flame shit with a glove box?
curious to what you mean by SAB
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23430618 - 07/10/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Still air box. Basically a glove box without the gloves. It's far better at keeping the air still, which is the only reason why folks use GBs and SABs.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23430626 - 07/10/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is a picture of my 110 qt clear still air box:
 Notice it's wet/condensated inside. That's what it's supposed to look like the whole time you're working with it.
I took the cut outs of the holes and taped them to make little doors. This is to keep the air still if I'm waiting for things to cool, or if I want a smoke break.
My SAB holes are 6 inches. Honestly this is the MINIMUM diameter. I took incense and lit it in my box (kudos to kizzle for the idea) and found the arm holes moved the most air (smoke) when moving my arms around, and in and out. By increasing the size of the arm holes, and working in a fairly still room with the vents turned off .. I've been finding that moving your arms in and out will cause no air movement. And thus very rare contams
Also you flame outside the box, keeping the air inside the box still.
Edited by Mad Season (07/11/16 01:33 PM)
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Leastham
Mycologist



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23430651 - 07/10/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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almost the same setup i ditched the gloves of my GB. so if my spore syringes are bad then can i get a hint to a non contaminated vendor?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23430665 - 07/10/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is no such thing as a sterile syringe. Agar is the way to go if you want the best chance of getting clean spawn.
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Leastham
Mycologist



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23430687 - 07/10/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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alright so i got some agar dishes going... how you know if its clean or not it looks white and good.
i used pasties tek with the mini rounds but i can see through them.
Edited by Leastham (07/10/16 10:27 PM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23430711 - 07/10/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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How did you prep them? Pour or no pour?
With poured agar you need to wait a few days to be able to tell if they are clean or not. No-pours are safer because they are already in the containers when they go into the PC. Pouring is faster and less annoying though.
One thing you could do is leave a couple of plates as controls to see if they contam while using the others in the meantime. That way if you start getting contams, you will know if the plates were already contaminated or if you contaminated them during transfers.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23431226 - 07/11/16 04:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: There is no such thing as a sterile syringe. Agar is the way to go if you want the best chance of getting clean spawn.
You've been brain washed by Rr.... He went around telling the forums this because he urged perfection by isolation... I can make sterile syringes....so can vendors.... vendors wouldn't offer a guarantee if they weren't clean....
Always make a test jar prior to mass inoculation, or, use agar.... homemade spore syringes by new cultivators is where this misconception comes from.
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Spiritwithin
Humidifier


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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23431258 - 07/11/16 04:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said: You've been brain washed by Rr.... He went around telling the forums this because he urged perfection by isolation... I can make sterile syringes....so can vendors.... vendors wouldn't offer a guarantee if they weren't clean....
Would you care to explain to me, how anyone can ever make a 100% sterile syringe from a print, when obviously the mushroom the print was taken from can obviously never be 100% sterile? Sure, it can be relatively clean, but sterile? No, imho.
-------------------- Trading Golden teacher prints for Pan. cyan. prints.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Spiritwithin]
#23431816 - 07/11/16 11:27 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah please do explain this 100% sterile spore process you have from a cap that opened in unsterile conditions. When there can be (low balling this because growing in houses are dirty af) 50,000 particles every square inch. Laboratory sterile conditions is 50000 particles every square meter, so even then it still opens up to conditions with potential contaminations.
I'd love to see this vendor guarantee o.0 because I should be getting a refund on LOTS of syringes.. (luckily I had agar to save the day)
From 3 different vendors too
I swear hybrid has something against RR. Literally every other post he calls him a liar and says shit that is pretty ridiculous.
Edited by Mad Season (07/11/16 11:53 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23431891 - 07/11/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, it is hybrid we are talking about. This is the "TC" who doesn't even recognize bacterial spawn, of course he thinks that his dirty AF homemade syringes are sterile.
A guarantee that a syringe is sterile is new to me too, maybe I need a pair of glasses because I sure as shit never saw that on any of the vendors' sites.
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23431995 - 07/11/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hell yes vendor syringes can be dirty, especially penis varietys. Some so bad you can't even clean up

Sure they guarantee, I was sent a new one. Personally I would rather guarantee it's clean myself using a penny's worth of agar instead of taking their word for it wasting my time and resources spawning some BS spawn only to get trich. Plus spores to grain is a terrible waste of spores and money. One drop can do countless grows and agar is cheap AF, a dollars worth will do 100 plates, sounds like a no brainier
--------------------
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: NDStepp84]
#23432029 - 07/11/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
NDStepp84 said: sounds like a no brainier
It is, unless you can't tell the difference between healthy and bacterial spawn after years of growing, then it's a lost cause to even try and explain what is wrong with spores.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23432071 - 07/11/16 01:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I never argued the risks of Ms syringes...
When I make my own. ...I inoculate a test jar prior to mass inoculations....that's common sense.
RR urged agar.... since not only can they test it but also isolate if there is a contaminate. ..
And I don't spawn bacteria infected jars...if it smells like mushrooms...there is no "competing" or otherwise "germinated" bacteria. It is a clean culture otherwise the bulk run would fail.
Anyways....that tub I harvested 654 wet grams from is recovering and producing a 2nd flush....guess the bacteria disappeared
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX] 1
#23432087 - 07/11/16 01:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think you confuse the terms isolating strains and cleaning up myc. spore syringes arent like LCs which are generally either clean or dirty. all spore syringes are dirty, vendors' too, its just that noobs dont recognize the bacteria in their jars and once they do they start using agar anyway so it doesnt really matter anymore.
hybrid's taking cheap retaliation shots at RR now since he's not around anymore, not the first time and probably not the last.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23432094 - 07/11/16 01:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said: Anyways....that tub I harvested 654 wet grams from is recovering and producing a 2nd flush....guess the bacteria disappeared 
uuuh, is this a joke?  since everyone said bacteria subs still produce,just way less. and you got 2oz from 6qts of spawn. we usually say less than 1oz pr qt of spawn means somethings wrong. bacteria didnt disappear it ate your crops. you could also fruit in proper conditions to help your subs produce better.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23432098 - 07/11/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23432131 - 07/11/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not taking cheap shots at Rr. ..
I stated the purpose of agar...
If vendor syringes were all dirty...I'd never have grown any and sent out prints to people who grew from them themselves....
You guys don't know the difference between regular p.cube multispore mycelium and a bacterial growth but that's OK. ..it's kind of hard to tell from a picture I guess.
And I agree that the "4l" of spawn did not yeild well on the first flush....that's why I'm expecting 4oz on the 2nd....normally I get 2.5 per 2l of spawn to coir but I'm not blaming bacteria since I've seen genetics play out this way before....it's not a isolate so b/e cannot apply.
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Edited by HybridprX (07/11/16 01:39 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23432136 - 07/11/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yep typical. Always everyone else but you who's wrong.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23432141 - 07/11/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Isn't there like a 3 strikes and you are out rule for people giving misinformation on the boards? I think there should be, at least catch a time out from being able to post... Its shitty when shitformation gets passed along in current threads, especially when it is done with such confidence... The ONLY way that you could make a sterile spore syringe would be using an invitro agar pin, and even then it would take pretty good sterile technique...
The fact that mushrooms are fruited in open air completely destroys your entire argument hybrid... Unless of course the air on your planet is sterile.... Yes there are some ways to make pretty Damn clean syringes, and a lot of people do... But they are guaranteed to be bacterial to a certain degree...
--------------------
Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: LocN9ne]
#23432235 - 07/11/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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As far as hybrid is concerned, you can only have a lot of bacteria, but never a small amount. That's like saying you are not dirty after not taking a shower for a week just because you use a shitload of perfume.
There is no use in trying to teach this guy common sense, he obviously doesn't care for it so I'm not gonna waste my time. You guys shouldn't either.
I mostly grow MS which is cleaned on agar prior to inoculation and I never get what he calls as "p.cube multispore mycelium", unless I fuck up with my technique or miss bacteria in the petri, of course. But yeah, we are the retarded ones for doing it right and interpeting the signs. It's hilarious that such an "experienced" cultivator can have such a skewed view of cultivation.
BTW, I would love to see you explain how you would be able to smell a type of bacteria that doesn't smell. Most bacteria don't.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Mad Season]
#23432252 - 07/11/16 02:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Yep typical. Always everyone else but you who's wrong.
yeah there's 145 members including several tc's thats wrong about bacteria really being "just the looks of ms" that makes grains clump together and hinder recolonization, and this 1 dude that gets it 
I'm pretty sure he's trolling tho, keeps repeating "mushrooms grew, cant have been bacteria" still today..
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: spacechildo] 1
#23432278 - 07/11/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just found out that hybrid has a very bad case of DSD.
Quote:
NDStepp84 said:
 It's a condition that the ones suffering don't even know Mostly acute affecting new growers, but in some rare sad cases it's chronic.
Now I feel bad for making fun of him, it's not nice to make fun of people suffering from a disease.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23432334 - 07/11/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol@dsd
The vendors are going to hate you guys when every new cultivator blames them for mold.... Or bacteria...
You can start out with a isolate and still have deformities in the mycelium due to fruiting conditions.... high r.h. ..low f.a.e do cause mycelium to behave differently when applied to bulk... just as when it turns dense and yellow around a bacteria splotch....
B/e need not apply to people wanting to shroom it out....go back to advanced mycology which is where this info is coming from.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23432351 - 07/11/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have never calculated my BE but I still refuse to spawn "ms looking jars" (aka bacterial). Both my shrooms and my yields thank me for it.
Not too long ago pasty posted the difference between aerial mycelium from too much rh/too little fae and mycelium reacting to bacteria. The difference is obvious to those willing to learn.
You seem quite happy with low yields and DSD so I'll leave you to it. Thankfully, there are a lot of people who know how to do it right so your misinformation will always be corrected.
PS. I don't think DSD is funny, it's actually quite sad. The fact that you laugh at having it is sadder.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX] 1
#23432358 - 07/11/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe the vendors will love us cause we tell people that when they get a bacterial PE syringe that they can just clean it up on agar instead of making the vendor send a new one
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Leastham
Mycologist



Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 126
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23432419 - 07/11/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: How did you prep them? Pour or no pour?
i used this Tek(Except i used powdered Agar not whatever that red agar is that he used)
This is what i have done so far
(NOTE: I DID THIS ALL WHILE TRYING TO MOVE AS SLOW AS I COULD SO I DIDNT CREATE THAT MUCH AIR MOVEMENT) 1. picked the best jar that looks the healthiest. 2. Got my SAB followed this proccess
3. turned my mini round upside down on a alcohol soaked paper towel 4. Wiped the mini round down with alcohol towel, popped the lid, put it back down 5. wiped the jar lid down with alcohol. 6. wiped my torch handle and exacto down as well 7. rinsed my gloved hands with alcohol 8. flamed the blade till red hot 9. Went back in the SAB 10. popped the lid on the jar open 11. grabbed my mini round(while keeping it upside down) 12. cut a few millimeters off the side of the jar growing off a Seed 13. flipped my mini round put it right in the middle 14. popped the lid back on. 15. closed the jar. 16. wiped the round off again with alcohol 17. put it in a Pitch Black Area, 72-74 degrees
PLEASE ANSWER THESE FOR ME. i have questions about the mini rounds.. do you keep the paper towel on it? do you keep them in the foil? Should the unused ones be kept in the foil? Also do you have to refrigerate the unused ones? PLEASE ANSWER THESE FOR ME.
and as far as this spore thing i have always had great results till now, i also have always wanted to try agar but never got to it, i am getting into it now. thank you guys for pointing out all the negatives about spores, i will try my hardest with the agar
Edited by Leastham (07/11/16 03:37 PM)
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Leastham]
#23432446 - 07/11/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You take the foil and paper towels off in your SAB... I take them off of the ones that I'm not going to use right away also, because sometimes the paper towel and micropore tape are damp... This allows the tape to dry... There is no need to keep blanks in the fridge.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Leastham
Mycologist



Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 126
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: LocN9ne]
#23432467 - 07/11/16 03:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LocN9ne said: You take the foil and paper towels off in your SAB... I take them off of the ones that I'm not going to use right away also, because sometimes the paper towel and micropore tape are damp... This allows the tape to dry... There is no need to keep blanks in the fridge.
alright well thank you very much. i hope to do one more so i have 2 to go from.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 2,667
Loc: In a forest
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23432594 - 07/11/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Maybe the vendors will love us cause we tell people that when they get a bacterial PE syringe that they can just clean it up on agar instead of making the vendor send a new one 
Lol, I don't think so. I used syringe for 3 drops and still have 11 cc's. I'll probably never use it since I have prints now. Getting people to use agar will not help vendors. Syringes are outdated anyway. Print > agar is much better
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: GreenRabbit]
#23432636 - 07/11/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Print to agar is ideal...
I agree...
I think people are thinking that because I made a ms syringe from a print that, that is what I prefer.... isolation via agar is how I use to roll and then G2g. ..I don't like lc's since it's even more finicky then a print to syringe.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: GreenRabbit]
#23432663 - 07/11/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
GreenRabbit said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Maybe the vendors will love us cause we tell people that when they get a bacterial PE syringe that they can just clean it up on agar instead of making the vendor send a new one 
Lol, I don't think so. I used syringe for 3 drops and still have 11 cc's. I'll probably never use it since I have prints now. Getting people to use agar will not help vendors. Syringes are outdated anyway. Print > agar is much better
Yeah I had my tongue in my cheek when I said that. However despite the fact that we no longer rely on syringes solely to grow, we still recommend sponsors for new people and I may someday still order a new species or variety from a vendor. Maybe the lack of a lock on the market might end up being a good thing. People will give business to decent vendors and the shady ones might not be able to stay in business long due to people not being reliant on syringes.
Besides the lazy factor and urge to shortcut will never be eradicated. Just pop over to Facebook or reddit for a second and you see for yourself.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23432800 - 07/11/16 06:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said: Print to agar is ideal...
I agree...
I think people are thinking that because I made a ms syringe from a print that, that is what I prefer.... isolation via agar is how I use to roll and then G2g. ..I don't like lc's since it's even more finicky then a print to syringe.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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TheChief
Cube Collector



Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 1,905
Loc: Executing TEKs...
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: HybridprX]
#23432891 - 07/11/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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A LC made from an agar wedge is a lot safer than a MS syringe IMO. Less finicky? I would have dissagree and go with LC, you just goda know your shit before attempting to use LC because there is a fair bit to learn before doing so. It isn't for people who like to cut corners. Not as easy as just mixing up some sterile distilled water and spores. You also goda wait for spores to germinate (or not germinate) and then colonize, rather than having vigorous, live culture to begin with...
Clean LC and slurrys are easy to make too, it just takes good sterile technique, agar work and a little research. I've never even attempted to make a MS syringe before... Any MS syringe I ever used straight to grain always had at least a contam jar or two come out of it, they were from reputable sources...
Not to mention, even if a jar looked clean from MS syring, it could still be hiding contams inside (you never saw clean growth on agar first then how do you know otherwise? Even if you did, there could still be contams lingering somewhere in the rest of it); then you g2g and have a trich hay day, sounds like a blast. MS syringes seem quite pointless to me; unless, like pasty said, you are just looking for new genetics and putting them to agar.

At least if you get a contam jar or LI/LC from a clean looking agar wedge, you can be almost certain it was your sterile procedures fault and not the culture source. Like someone else said, unless the fruits were grown invitro and you are super sterile working, a print or syringe would likely still have at least a degree of contamination present. All prints and sryinges should be considered dirty and applied to agar, before anything else, to sector out clean growth.
Don't get me wrong, some success CAN be had with putting spores right to media and skipping agar; sure, that is why noobs do it. You can also have SOME success shitting out a window, does that mean we do it? No. A toilet works much better, because that is what it is designed for. Noobs have to cut corners because the knowledge or material requirements just aren't there yet. But for someone who has been around the block in this hobby and plans to advance, there is no reason or excuse to stay stuck in the stone ages and only work with spores that I can see, other than stupidity or just plain stubbornness. Get with the times, agar is the gate to advanced mycology.
Edited by TheChief (07/12/16 09:46 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: TheChief]
#23433880 - 07/12/16 01:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Meh, I gave LCs a break for the time being. Too damn unpredictable. I've had pretty good results in the past when it was common for me to lose jars regardless of what I used but nowadays, even if I catch a contamed LC early during testing, I get kinda pissed off. Most of the time I contam the jar during inoculations, which sucks even worse because I would have already tested the damn thing and would be expecting results.
I mostly use wedges though, I fucking love them. If I ever do need a jar to colonize ASAP, I'll just mix some LI instead of an LC. Safer and it's just as fast, if not faster in some cases, like when you have the culture on a petri already. I inoculate jars with somewhat of a routine so wedges serves my needs perfectly. The extra colonizing time does not bother you when you are spawning something every week.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Trich... Trich... Trich Again... Please Help [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23434041 - 07/12/16 04:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've done lc's. ...not my preferred course for mass propagation.... G2g is way safer.....but a lc with a fast growing isolate is the fastest means of mass propagation.
I'd prefer a agar slurry to lc. ...that's probably where liquid cultures evolved from.
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