|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
ato
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Moclobemide and DMT?
#23425714 - 07/09/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
How does it compare with other oral DMT methods? Like how does Moclobemide -> DMT compare with harmal seeds tea -> DMT? What should be the dosage of moclobemide? Time gap between moclobemide and DMT? Should I prefer to take moclobemide in capsule or tablet form? I've read about adding lemon juice to harmal seeds tea; any thing I need to take along with moclobemide?
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: ato] 1
#23426752 - 07/09/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Ime/imo, DMT with Harmalas is the better way to go. I've tried DMT with Moclobemide quite a bit, and it's just not the same as it is with Harmalas. Though there are some interesting effects i had gotten from DMT with Moclobemide, that i don't seem to get with the Harmalas, but there's also effects from the Harmalas that i don't get from the Moclobemide. The Harmalas bring about the "Ayahuasca effect", imo, whereas with Moclobemide it's basically just the DMT or DMT-containing plant that you're experiencing. Don't get me wrong though, i like both Moclobemide and Harmalas, but i prefer the Harmalas, but do see some potential with Moclobemide.
As for Moclobemide dosage, i've read that 75mgs or 150mgs is enough for DMT activation, however it is said 300mgs inhibits approximately 80% of MAO-A, so i usually took 300mgs to 375mgs (so 2 to 2 and a half tablets). Also the timing between the Moclobemide and DMT is important to figure out. There's been a few times i've taken the DMT 30 to 45 minutes after the Moclobemide, and while the DMT was activated, it's effects were short in duration it seemed. So i started taking 300mgs of Moclobemide, waiting an hour an a half, took 75mgs more of Moclobemide, and 30 minutes later would take the DMT. I still need to work on the timing and dosage a bit when it comes to the Moclobemide, but taking it like that ensured DMT's longer duration (3 to 4 hours).
As for Lemon juice, i've never added Lemon juice, but i have added Lemon essential oil. The Lemon EO seems to do away with the purge/nausea from the Harmalas, and depending on dosage can either relax the DMT's intensity, or can dull things down if too much Lemon is used because it interacts with GABA, but with the right dosage, things are alright but i prefer the Rue without the Lemon EO. However, the Harmalas in Rue, as well as Caapi, build up a reverse tolerance with repeated/regular/daily or near daily intake, so if you take a good common to strong Rue dosage daily or near daily for a week or two, the reverse tolerance will start building up which does away with the nausea/vomiting/diarrhea, cleans up the body load, and allows you to handle stronger dosages of Rue without most of the undesirable/negative side-effects, also allows you to lower the Rue/Harmala dosage as you go along. I used the Lemon EO to get me through the initial nausea/vomiting from the Rue, and after taking Rue daily for about a week or two, i was able to stop taking the Lemon EO and now i don't have to take anything to counteract nausea/vomiting because Rue's reverse tolerance is built up. I also mostly use Rue extract, but for the last couple or so weeks i've been taking ground Rue seed in capsules until i make some more extract, and there's still no nausea or vomiting from really strong Rue dosages.
Though a few times i did mix Lemon Balm and Acacia Confusa with Moclobemide, had some interesting experiences. Also have tried Mimosa and Moclobemide, and had some visual effects that i don't seem to get when using Harmalas. I think both Moclobemide and Harmalas have things to offer with DMT, but i think Harmalas have more to offer, just depends i guess on what you're looking to get out of it. The main difference for me personally with Moclobemide and DMT compared to Harmalas and DMT, is that Moclobemide lacks the nice body relaxation that i get from the Rue.
Edited by Sabnock (07/09/16 02:39 PM)
|
ato
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: Sabnock]
#23428415 - 07/10/16 05:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks a lot!
I want to converse with entities, converse with God, gain knowledge of universal secrets -- stuff like that. In your experience, what's more suitable for that: moclobemide -> oral DMT, Or harmal seeds tea -> oral DMT, Or something else like moclobemide -> Smoked DMT?
Is the experience of moclobemide -> oral DMT, same as (but longer) experience of smoking DMT (without any MAOI)? Confirming because from what I've read on internet, to me there's seeming to be a negative image of moclobemide, as if smoking DMT (without any MAOI) being better than taking oral DMT after taking moclobemide.
I tried harmal seeds, I chewed them and I chewed them very well: 3 grams in around 20-25 minutes. It was extremely unpleasant experience even when I was using lemon juice to suppress the taste. Felt sick after that, vomited them out even when I was ignoring the nausea. Was feeling very weak, slept with vomit still on bedroom floor (as I wasn't feeling the energy to clean it).
Maybe few weeks after that, I made a tea/coffee of around 3.5g harmal seeds by slightly roasting them, then putting whole roasted seeds in water, heating, squeezing lemon juice into it, adding slight ginger, straining and mixing sugar. I think the prepared tea/coffee was better than the experience of chewing raw harmal seeds, but still I didn’t like it. After few sips, felt nausea, rushed to washroom with the tea glass in my hand, vomit didn't come, but I drained out the rest of the tea.
I don't want to choke on my vomit when tripping, and also feeling nausea is seeming to me a mood-killer / negative-setting for having an amazing trip on DMT, that's why considering moclobemide.
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: ato]
#23428943 - 07/10/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Well, you could try smoked DMT after taking some Moclobemide and see how that does for ya, i've only tried that once but it was alright. But i'm not much of a DMT smoker, i much prefer oral DMT. And smoked DMT with MAO-A inhibition will probably be a little different compared to smoking pure DMT, but i'd imagine the Moclobemide would potentiate it for sure.
As for the nausea with Rue, yeah Rue can cause quite the nausea/vomiting, but imo it's better to use Harmalas/Rue/Caapi over Moclobemide, even though Moclobemide doesn't seem to cause any nausea/vomiting. And it's not so much that there's a negative image surrounding Moclobemide, i think it's just that most people haven't worked with it much. And smoking DMT is a bit different than oral DMT.
Have you tried smoking the Harmalas with DMT (Changa)? Like smoking the Rue seeds or making an extract and smoking that? And i've read some pretty good reports of people taking Rue/Harmalas orally and then smoking DMT after an hour or so with good results.
Also, using Rue extract orally you can encapsulate about 185mgs of the extract, and it shouldn't cause you nausea or vomiting, and it feels cleaner than ingesting the seeds. You can buy some purified Harmala extract (Harmaline and Harmine) on ebay if you need to.
But yeah i too don't like the nausea/vomiting from the Harmalas and would much prefer not to vomit. I've also had thoughts about possibly choking on my vomit during an experience (especially back when i used to ingest ground Rue seed and Mimosa root powder in capsules), but using Rue extract and a DMT-containing tea, the purge wasn't bad at all and was quick and painless.
But if you have the necessary funds, you could perhaps try getting enough Rue seed and some Lemon EO, so that you could take the Rue daily or near daily, get the reverse tolerance built up and the Rue's nausea/vomiting will go away in a week or two, and you can use Lemon EO to block out the nausea/vomiting when you first start taking the Rue, and once the Rue's reverse tolerance is built up a bit you can stop taking the Lemon EO. The only thing about Lemon EO, that i've noticed so far, is that it has a long half-life so it seems to stay in the system for about 2 to 3 days.
But what i did a few months ago, was take about 5 to 6 drops of Lemon EO with a good common to strong dosage of Rue on a daily basis, after a week or two i didn't need the Lemon EO anymore, and the nausea/vomiting was gone from the Rue, plus Rue's rough/sickly body load got much cleaner. I've still been taking Rue daily for a few months now, and it's very tolerable right now, feels very clean, even though i first started out taking the extract and since i've run out of extract i've just been ingesting the ground seed in capsules again, but it still feels very clean and usable with the reverse tolerance.
If you really want to work with DMT and Harmalas, i would say definitely try taking the Rue daily for a bit, and then add in the DMT. You can even take the Rue a couple of hours or so before bed if you need to.
|
ato
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: Sabnock]
#23439745 - 07/14/16 01:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sabnock said: Have you tried smoking the Harmalas with DMT (Changa)? Like smoking the Rue seeds or making an extract and smoking that?
Sir i'm sorry for late reply. Never tried smoking the seeds or their extract, even in the form of Changa. When i (=someone i know) tried smoking DMT powder/crystals i immediately coughed it out, so smoking the seeds or their extract i think may be worse 
The harmal seeds tolerance you've explained i found it surprising. You said that with continues use the nausea will decrease, alright, but i think you also said that its MAOI efficacy will increase. So with continues use, its negative effect is decreasing and its positive effect is increasing as i understood, instead of both increasing or both decreasing. This magical tolerance i found surprising, thanks for sharing.
The adding lemon juice to harmal seeds tea, i was saying for objective of: neutralizing (or making slightly acidic) the alkalinity of the tea, and also for pulling out the harmalas from the seeds when making the tea. I think the neutralizing of alkalinity may also decrease nausea. Whereas Lemon EO i think is for specific purpose of decreasing nausea.
I just noticed that you used lower-case 'i's in your both the posts when 'i' not at the start of sentence. I've been recently wanting to do the same but i think out of habit had been writing capital-case 'I'. I changed the 'I's above in this post to 'i's after noticing yours. Thanks for reminding me to use lower-case 'i'.
Thanks for the informations you've shared.
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: ato]
#23444136 - 07/15/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Well ime with Rue, it also contains bronchodilators, so it makes things easier to smoke ime. I usually evaporate my DMT onto Cannabis, and top it off with some Rue full spectrum freebase extract, works very well and isn't as harsh as pure DMT vapor.
But yeah the reverse tolerance is very interesting, i'm surprised more people don't know about lol.
If you do add Lemon juice to the seed tea, lmk how it goes, like if you notice any reduction in nausea. I don't think it'll do anything except make the tea taste a bit worse lol, but idk, i've never tried add the Lemon juice. But yeah Lemon EO is different than Lemon juice.
|
ato
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: Sabnock]
#23446467 - 07/16/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sabnock said: If you do add Lemon juice to the seed tea, lmk how it goes, like if you notice any reduction in nausea.
Only in the two instances i've taken harmal seeds or their tea.
|
ato
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: Sabnock]
#23471025 - 07/23/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sabnock said: If you do add Lemon juice to the seed tea, lmk how it goes, like if you notice any reduction in nausea. I don't think it'll do anything except make the tea taste a bit worse lol, but idk, i've never tried add the Lemon juice.
I wanted to know whether should i add lemon juice, and also whether should i roast the seeds. Background info: I've been using the whole seeds for making the tea instead of first grinding them, i think that using the whole seeds is generally better method. So, i experimented with both with lemon juice & without, and roasted & non-roasted. Without lemon juice tasted better to me, like you said. Regarding roasting, tea of the roasted seeds had burnt taste, so it tasted even more bitter. Tea of the non-roasted seeds tasted better to me. So simply heating the whole seeds in water and not adding anything else, is what worked for me. - I also let the seeds sit in the hot water (tea) for some time with purpose of extracting more harmalas. A key change I think I did because of which I was finally able to drink the tea was to start using less quantity of water when making the tea so that there's less liquid to drink. Another change was that previously I was letting the tea cool down but this time I drank it warm and I think drinking while it was still warm was a better experience.
|
ato
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: Sabnock]
#23489299 - 07/29/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I think on this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=47271 a person named Sabnock (is that you?) said that in his experience DMT on harmalas lasts longer than DMT on moclobemide. For example: "just to figure out what's going on with the Moclobemide and why it seems to allow DMT to be degraded, whereas the Harmalas seem to recycle the DMT"
This post: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=551352#post551352 seemed to me as if combining moclobemide and DMT is worse than smoking DMT alone.
I tried harmal seeds tea and oral DMT, the experience was lighter and shorter lived than what i wanted, so thinking of combining harmal seeds tea and moclobemide, - harmal seeds tea for Peganum harmala spirit - i don't know if works that way.
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Moclobemide and DMT? [Re: ato] 1
#23489919 - 07/29/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Yes that would be me, i got banned from there because of something stupid and had to create a new account under the name ShamensStamen.
What i meant by that was that the DMT with Moclobemide would come in, be really intense, and then leave, but i later found out that was because apparently the timing wasn't right (as i was taking the DMT 30 minutes after the Moclobemide), but once i started waiting an hour or so, i was able to get DMT's full duration of about 4 hours. Still though, there's something the Harmalas seem to do that feels like it keeps certain aspects of the DMT around for longer after the DMT is already on it's way out, which i think may have to do with Harmaline's inhibition of COMT which inhibits the breakdown of Dopamine, Adrenaline and Noradrenaline, not sure though.
But yeah if the Moclobemide dosage and timing is good, the DMT will be active. In fact, i'm thinking about getting me some more Moclobemide in the next couple of months and giving it another try with some Mimosa or Acacia, because there were definitely some effects i got from the DMT with Moclobemide that i don't get when using Harmalas.
And really, yes DMT with Moclobemide can feel/be pretty intense, but idk if it'd be worse than smoking DMT. One night back in 2012 i think it was i had taken 150mgs of Moclobemide earlier on in the day, and then later at night took another 150mgs, along with 3 capsules of Mimosa inner root powder 30 minutes afterwards... It was short lived, but i'm glad it was lol. Intense physical body-load/sensations, started seeing a kinda neon blue spot on my wall that had some kind of text and symbols scrolling down, and i was freaking out because of the Adrenaline, i threw up several times and had to talk to my mom for a few minutes to help me calm down, but after a few minutes i was calm and fine. I went through some pretty hardcore experimentation back in the day lol.
The reason your Rue and DMT experience didn't last long, probably had to do with Harmala dosage and timing between the Rue and the DMT. And if you decide to mix Moclobemide and Rue, it's best to find the right dosages because afaik they both inhibit CYP2D6 which metabolizes them out, thus they might potentiate each other so dosages might need to be adjusted.
Edited by Sabnock (07/29/16 05:37 PM)
|
|