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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Totally signing out of culture and going it alone * 1
    #23425629 - 07/09/16 04:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Many of us here are in this position, yeah?

I don't watch TV, I don't listen to radio, I only socialise with selected people that are not part of the culture (so much - they are open-minded).

I made the decision to totally drop out.

And I have found a whole other, living world.

Culture is a total scam, they're all being screwed.

I'm not bitter or angry, it's just the facts.

What say you?

Is culture an intelligence test?


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23425648 - 07/09/16 04:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

And I have found a whole other, living world.




please explain more in detail what you mean by this?


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: zzripz]
    #23425661 - 07/09/16 04:51 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:mushroomgrow:


Edited by Signeg (07/10/16 08:14 PM)


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg]
    #23425677 - 07/09/16 05:11 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Brilliant stuff Signeg.

zzripz - I don't know how to phrase it. I've been saying stuff like "reality is multidimensional" but is that really what you need to hear right now? I mean there's got to be a better way to put it.

Reality is not what culture thinks it is, at all... It's a living experience, waiting for you to tune into what it's doing.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Invisibleremake
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23425698 - 07/09/16 05:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)



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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23425700 - 07/09/16 05:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

"He who does not seek it is not likely to find it" - Paracelsus



Edited by Signeg (07/09/16 06:04 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn] * 3
    #23425734 - 07/09/16 06:25 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:
Many of us here are in this position, yeah?

I don't watch TV, I don't listen to radio, I only socialise with selected people that are not part of the culture (so much - they are open-minded).

I made the decision to totally drop out.

And I have found a whole other, living world.

Culture is a total scam, they're all being screwed.

I'm not bitter or angry, it's just the facts.

What say you?

Is culture an intelligence test?




you have externalized every fault in "failing to notice nature" to the pervasive culture, and proposed a solution to drop out.

the actual solution to not noticing nature is to pay attention to nature.

you have to build on your ability to concentrate, and stop blaming external forces for the wandering of your mind.

culture (not macdonald's and macy's) is a huge source of inspiration, beauty, and wisdom. wherever you go, however, you need to continue to exercise your mental faculties or they will atrophy and weaken.

stay sharp.
drop in not out.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23425739 - 07/09/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

the actual solution to not noticing nature is to pay attention to nature.

you have to build on your ability to concentrate, and stop blaming external forces for the wandering of your mind.






This is really good advice.


Edited by Signeg (07/09/16 06:30 AM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23426911 - 07/09/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:
Many of us here are in this position, yeah?

I don't watch TV, I don't listen to radio, I only socialise with selected people that are not part of the culture (so much - they are open-minded).

I made the decision to totally drop out.

And I have found a whole other, living world.

Culture is a total scam, they're all being screwed.

I'm not bitter or angry, it's just the facts.

What say you?

Is culture an intelligence test?




Yes, only the dummies need apply.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn] * 2
    #23426981 - 07/09/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You're never free from culture, that's why culture is as powerful as it is. Even if you camped in the desert by yourself for the rest of your life, the culture that you were raised in would influence you forever in ways you don't even realize.


Edited by nooneman (07/09/16 03:47 PM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: nooneman]
    #23426995 - 07/09/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
You're never free from culture, that's why culture is as powerful as it is. Even if you camped in the desert by yourself for the rest of your life, the culture that you were raised in would influence you forever in ways you don't even realize.




Seems the denial by OP as to his lack of totally signing out by posting this may prove your point.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: nooneman]
    #23427042 - 07/09/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
You're never free from culture, that's why culture is as powerful as it is. Even if you camped in the desert by yourself for the rest of your life, the culture that you were raised in would influence you forever in ways you don't even realize.




That's totally correct.  Culture is a system of thought, and once inside this system it is, basically, impossible to get out.  Once you think you're out, it's just another part of the same system.  Culture is the shared mental contents of a given society, and if you're enmeshed in it through the age of two or three, your brain is permanently wired on that frequency, in essence.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23427059 - 07/09/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm okay I can dig that

I certainly have improved on the way we think though?

I rely primarily on intuition, and see various dimensions of perception.

Things my culture has no idea about

But I certainly speak Australian words, behave in Australian ways, it's true

I guess I meant global culture?

Or from this point, taking over my life?

---

I guess what I'm proposing is TOTAL SELF-RELIANCE? But with whatever remants of the culture that keep the flow going


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


Edited by beforethedawn (07/09/16 04:20 PM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23427073 - 07/09/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
You're never free from culture, that's why culture is as powerful as it is. Even if you camped in the desert by yourself for the rest of your life, the culture that you were raised in would influence you forever in ways you don't even realize.




That's totally correct.  Culture is a system of thought, and once inside this system it is, basically, impossible to get out.  Once you think you're out, it's just another part of the same system.  Culture is the shared mental contents of a given society, and if you're enmeshed in it through the age of two or three, your brain is permanently wired on that frequency, in essence.




The fact that there are about 20 million So Cal folks essentially camped in the desert with their own culture of denial about that fact is interesting to me.  The fact that the weather controllers are doing their bit, the dumping of fresh water into the ocean is doing it's bit, and the fact that the drought isn't going away or worse, the population keeps growing will make this come to a head. The fact that fracking is making the water in parts even more polluted is another contributor.  So my point is that the culture may say turn on the tap and wash your car and fill your pool but when the water is not there then the culture may change even though ingrained.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/09/16 04:22 PM)


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23427137 - 07/09/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
if you're enmeshed in it through the age of two or three, your brain is permanently wired on that frequency, in essence.




Bullshit.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: viktor]
    #23427166 - 07/09/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

if you want to 'drop out'

probably you are dropping out from money as the main system of exchange

native peoples in some parts of the world are already there

I'm sure it's not nirvana, ( that's a little subtler)

but it may feel more humane

however I strongly suspect

appropriate survival skills are necessary

so the proverbial wisdom would be: look before you leap

also something about preparation ... I suppose?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: viktor]
    #23427311 - 07/09/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
if you're enmeshed in it through the age of two or three, your brain is permanently wired on that frequency, in essence.




Bullshit.




What language do you speak and think in?  Language, for one example I can name, is instrumental in determining our thoughts.  Are you exempt from this?  You call bullshit, but I call bullshit on that.  You're not as different as you think you are.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23427580 - 07/09/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I speak in English, Swedish, German and Maori. I don't think in any language, why would I?

I call bullshit on the assertion that the brain is permanently wired to the culture that one spends the first three years in. That goes against everything known to psychological science about neuroplasticity.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: viktor]
    #23427642 - 07/09/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't mean to exclude the possibility of plasticity, you're absolutely right -- the brain is exceedingly plastic.  Perhaps my language was a little strong, but the fact is that most of the environmental wiring of the brain takes place in the first three years of life.  Whatever changes take place after that are bound to exist within that system to some degree.  Many people spend their entire lives trying to undo that wiring, and most of them are unsuccessful.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23428555 - 07/10/16 07:27 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I didn't mean to exclude the possibility of plasticity, you're absolutely right -- the brain is exceedingly plastic.  Perhaps my language was a little strong, but the fact is that most of the environmental wiring of the brain takes place in the first three years of life.  Whatever changes take place after that are bound to exist within that system to some degree.  Many people spend their entire lives trying to undo that wiring, and most of them are unsuccessful.




Isn't culture a bit more subtle than the "environmental wiring" in the first three years?  Do kids even get out and experience culture by that age?  Maybe their early experience is dependent on their parents treatment than a general cultural education?

I think once we finish elementary school, we are mostly brainwashed and taught to be little obedient soldiers in that culture of educational "learning".


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23428580 - 07/10/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i am in agreement with some of the posters such as RGV but i'm in a similar position to OP and get the self reliance thing..

im also an Aussie and plan on going solo for a while in a van.. i wanna unearth some alternative cultures! i hope i dont die.. we should hang out :yesnod:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn]
    #23428598 - 07/10/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
i am in agreement with some of the posters such as RGV but i'm in a similar position to OP and get the self reliance thing..

im also an Aussie and plan on going solo for a while in a van.. i wanna unearth some alternative cultures! i hope i dont die.. we should hang out :yesnod:




This doesn't sound like going it alone.

Self reliance is not possible when one is relying on being in a van. 

Recently I got tired of one such squatter parked in the pullout of the road for a couple of weeks just "hanging out".  By morning he was on down the road, by 5 miles at least.  If he just keeps hanging out at that pullout, I can make him move again, it was easy the first time and will be even easier the second.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/10/16 07:57 AM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23428682 - 07/10/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I didn't mean to exclude the possibility of plasticity, you're absolutely right -- the brain is exceedingly plastic.  Perhaps my language was a little strong, but the fact is that most of the environmental wiring of the brain takes place in the first three years of life.  Whatever changes take place after that are bound to exist within that system to some degree.  Many people spend their entire lives trying to undo that wiring, and most of them are unsuccessful.




Isn't culture a bit more subtle than the "environmental wiring" in the first three years?  Do kids even get out and experience culture by that age?  Maybe their early experience is dependent on their parents treatment than a general cultural education?





It seems that more radical development goes on between birth and the age of three than in the entire rest of one's life.  Much of this is environmental accident, and much of it is the effect of the society's shared mental contents -- in other words, culture.  Certainly culture continues to make an impact after this age, but it shapes a person most meaningfully at that early stage.  Children soak up the world like a sponge, and mostly that world is made up of cultural elements.  Moreover, a parent's treatment is heavily steeped in the dominant culture.  That is principally what the child picks up on -- language, behavior and the method of raising the child.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23428703 - 07/10/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

what did you do to the poor man? :nonono:

i dont see why driving a van makes me any less self reliant? do i have to get rid of my clothes as well? what if i steal the van?


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn]
    #23428725 - 07/10/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
what did you do to the poor man? :nonono:

i dont see why driving a van makes me any less self reliant? do i have to get rid of my clothes as well? what if i steal the van?




I just called the proper authorities who paid him a visit and told him he'd have to move his RV.  Dude literally parks in the middle of the pull out where the kayak boats come and go and people use for launching drift boats as well.  And there he sits, 2 weeks go by and there he sits. 

The law says someone can park in these spots for 24 hours max, not 2 weeks straight.  It's a tourist place and those folks bringing their RV to spend a day can do that.  Not some dude just literally hanging out.

Don't worry, he'll be fine.  State Cops are the nice ones.

As to your query, any time you are relying on your vehicle for living quarters you are relying on finding a place to park it and relying on gasoline and keeping it running.  Or someone could rip off your van with all your shit in it, then what?  You really will be screwed.

I lived out of a back pack for 3 months.  Try that sometime.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/10/16 08:59 AM)


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn]
    #23428754 - 07/10/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
what did you do to the poor man? :nonono:

i dont see why driving a van makes me any less self reliant? do i have to get rid of my clothes as well? what if i steal the van?



Looney drives a candy van.

BEEP BEEP


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23428792 - 07/10/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I can say with certainty that my life from birth to age 3 was not a good one.  Not a good one.  Not a good one.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23428875 - 07/10/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

fair.. well there are plenty of free camping spots round here, also, the alternative to paying gas is rent :shrug2:

im sure i will try some solo backpacking on my journeys but i dont want to get too hardcore survivalist about it like you or icelander might.. as i said, i dont want to die. :tongue:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn]
    #23428986 - 07/10/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
fair.. well there are plenty of free camping spots round here, also, the alternative to paying gas is rent :shrug2:

im sure i will try some solo backpacking on my journeys but i dont want to get too hardcore survivalist about it like you or icelander might.. as i said, i dont want to die. :tongue:




noticed he pulled into a real pull out but without his being 5 ft from the river.  a few of these guys play the hope no cop figures out they've been moving from spot to spot but basically are squatting.  there's a campground with a shitter nearby and water so if they can afford a 5th wheel maybe that's the spot to hang out.

personally i love living out of a backpack but am too old now my hips would become sore.  but tent living, in third world conditions, is a luxury.  privacy plus mosquito protection plus mobility.  gotta keep moving lots to see.  with all the equipment now it's not all that hardcore.  but, getting rid of excess shit is key.  no you can't carry a hardcover book, maybe one small paperback. and a pen.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429562 - 07/10/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

so actually 'evil' human culture is not the only factor
that the self feels  impinges upon it(self)
as revealed by this thread
there is also
old age, and it's pains, and infirmaties
and
fear of death.
those are
a little trickier
to escape
while maintaining
love of self
and identification
with 'our' body
it would seem


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429596 - 07/10/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

even Gladis Kravits (from I dream of Jeanie) didn't go that far.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: laughingdog]
    #23429635 - 07/10/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

quinn said:
what did you do to the poor man? :nonono:

i dont see why driving a van makes me any less self reliant? do i have to get rid of my clothes as well? what if i steal the van?



Looney drives a candy van.

BEEP BEEP



Quote:

laughingdog said:
so actually 'evil' human culture is not the only factor
that the self feels  impinges upon it(self)
as revealed by this thread
there is also
old age, and it's pains, and infirmaties
and
fear of death.
those are
a little trickier
to escape
while maintaining
love of self
and identification
with 'our' body
it would seem





another lecturer.  do you fear death?  i don't  maybe that's the difference between you and me, you project your fear on me, as if I care?

I don't, it would seem.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429647 - 07/10/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

quinn said:
what did you do to the poor man? :nonono:

i dont see why driving a van makes me any less self reliant? do i have to get rid of my clothes as well? what if i steal the van?



Looney drives a candy van.

BEEP BEEP




Look, Looney is not a term of endearment, it's insulting, and he's really not looking for your attention, so please find somebody else to harass.  This is your first and only warning.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23429655 - 07/10/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

DividedQuantum beat you to it. He did harass me on PM's but I don't cry about it, he also loves this game.

You let him free roam this forum but when someone ridicules him back it's suddenly offensive.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429683 - 07/10/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Your PM to me just now about being on welfare, was that actually harassment?

Because I answered it as if it was serious. If it was harassment, fuck you.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23429745 - 07/10/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

No, I'm thinking about doing it myself, so don't worry Vic.

But I won't say Looney anymore, it's kind of old now and used up. That said I don't want to see him harass me ever again either. He is good at hiding and then stinging, pay attention mods.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429776 - 07/10/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
No, I'm thinking about doing it myself, so don't worry Vic.

But I won't say Looney anymore, it's kind of old now and used up. That said I don't want to see him harass me ever again either. He is good at hiding and then stinging, pay attention mods.




How am I hiding for calling you out for your very real harassment?  I think anyone paying attention can see how you try to attack DQ for no reason other than being a mod.

You may not want me to "harass you ever again" well do the right thing then and leave me the fuck alone and quit harassing me.  Pick on me, pay the consequence, it's go time so pay attention LL.

"it's old and used up calling someone a name"

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE

Damn that felt good.

Still, it's getting old being a dick, I'm done now. 


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/10/16 04:31 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23430046 - 07/10/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
...
Quote:

laughingdog said:
....
old age, and it's pains, and infirmaties
...





another lecturer.  do you fear death?  i don't  maybe that's the difference between you and me, you project your fear on me, as if I care? I don't, it would seem.




you're the one who complained about his hip and being too old for camping -- so obviously 'society' isn't the only 'thing' limiting
a persons 'freedom' or style.

who said everything in the list applied to you anyway?

funny


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: LunarEclipse] * 2
    #23430047 - 07/10/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Forget signing out and living like a mountain man. At this point it's just a game and sooner than later the Human race will exterminate itself anyway. Might as well keep playing, or commit suicide if you REALLY want out. The lunatics are running the asylum politically, economically, environmentally, religiously, and socially. It won't stop because the people in charge aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary for long term survival though they do have their deep underground bunkers for themselves and their family as a halfhearted try. At this point, nothing short of an open and outright miracle from either God almighty or a truly god like extraterrestrial alien race will stop the madness before it's too late.


--------------------
"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #23430108 - 07/10/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Well said.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn] * 3
    #23435434 - 07/12/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I am a Euro-American man ensconced in an American cultural anomaly. In Miami-Dade County, Florida, which is 65% Hispanic with most being of Cuban extraction. I am as a Caucasian one of only 8-10% of the local population. I do not speak Spanish, and I do not partake of Hispanic culture. Surrounded by Hispanic and Haitian people in my neighborhood, mostly of a younger generation than I am, they are as unfamiliar with the place and times I grew up in, as I am of their's. These factors effectively isolate me from normal social interaction. Miami is extremely polarized culturally, meaning that most people do not choose to leave the 'comfort zone' of their own culture to relate to those of another culture. This is as obvious as refusing to acknowledge a wave from a neighbor when we  go to our mailboxes at the same time. :frown: I am essentially dropped out from the socio-cultural milieu that I reside in without having gone anywhere. :shrug: Add to that, very few friends live within visiting distance, and I have no family besides my wife, so I have been living an extremely isolated and alienated existence with my only recourse (since I'm really too old to start over) has been to create my own microcosmic culture.

I live in a veritable bubble of self-created culture. Most of my childhood friends from the Northeast played what Robert De Ropp called "The Neutral Game" and became 'family guys.' I chose to forego children and play one of the "High Games," including "The Master Game," which further removes me from many societal influences. I was not a parent and now not a grandparent, which is regarded negatively (suspiciously, sympathetically, or even contemptuously) by those who are! While I am intrigued, for example, by the people-friendly culture of Portland, OR as CosmicJoke describes it, one really does not leave the 'Sunshine State' after 30+ for the Pacific Northwest in one's retirement years. :nono: Besides, my part-Jamaican wife would die of Seasonal Affective Disorder (I might succumb myself).

So while I agree with redgreenvines that 'dropping in' to a culture is a better choice than dropping out of a culture, my alternative was to withdraw from both social options entirely. I neither physically left my local culture, nor did I become involved in it. A socio-cultural milieu that I can fantasize as close to idyllic does not exist for a 63 year old man in 2016. I wouldn't even want to imagine a Baby Boomer of the Woodstock Generation attempting to enter into the milieu of Millennials! That's as gross from my perspective as it is from their's! :eek: Generation X isn't any better for me. Meanwhile, my own peers have too often become 'conservatives' :puke: politically and religiously. Some even support Trump, :evilpuke: so I have abandoned them. The family guys are as boring to me as I seem suspicious to them in my 'Bohemian' ways. No, sometimes a person who is marooned in a different place and time as I seem to be, has to create his own culture in which to live. My inner life is like Dr. Who's TARDIS in this respect - "It's bigger on the inside." :yesnod: Fortunately, my 'TARDIS' has been spacious enough to sustain me over half of my life, and I have not gone mad, I've just remained somewhat sad. :sad:



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23436025 - 07/12/16 08:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

as a successful self-culture-generator what is your secret to not going mad?

my gut tells me that some form of social interaction/regulation is necessary in a life in order to give it perspective, check negative thoughts and keep one in 'shape'.. maybe that is just my bias from being a domesticated city dweller though.. what do you think?


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dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn]
    #23436912 - 07/13/16 03:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I think we don't necessarily need to disconnect forever, but enough time to seperate ourself from culture to understand who we are at least before trying to reintegrate. Which is why i think the younger the better if its actually possible. The longer we let ourselves become ignorant the longer it takes to change. It's more important to first understand nature and consciousness at least a bit first. So we can improve as humans rather than stay the same or get worse.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg]
    #23436968 - 07/13/16 04:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

sounds like a real holiday
too bad travel agents and expedia don't get it


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg]
    #23437569 - 07/13/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

son you're better off of the main drag


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dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn]
    #23437611 - 07/13/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

"Most persons have decided that they would rather take a chance and break faith with nature, whose processes are wonderful and mysterious and not very obvious, rather than to take a chance and break with tradition and with present prevailing policy and immediately endanger themselves as to loss and demotion or failure for advancement. So the average person in making his decisions has a tendency to sacrifice what he does not understand in favour of that which is immediately useful in some way. He therefore sacrifices the greater for the nearer. He sacrifices what might be termed by him an idealism for an immediate realism. Nature has very little patience for this procedure however. Nature is interested in the person becoming an adequate human being."


Something i was justt listening to... :thumbup:


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg]
    #23437622 - 07/13/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23454536 - 07/18/16 10:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:

I made the decision to totally drop out.





This phenomenon is referred to as "neurotic detachment"

Estrangement is common and involves a compulsion with self sufficiency, and creating emotional distance from others.

One goal of detachment is to not be coerced, influenced or obligated to anyone.

The need to feel superior plays a strong role in detachment.

Which is the origin of the saying about those who "live in an ivory tower"


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23454575 - 07/18/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

if you're still using the internet, on some form of petrol- and exploited-labor-produced computer product, still using city infrastructure, etc...then you aren't totally signed out of culture


keep trying, though


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: demiu5]
    #23454623 - 07/18/16 11:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

End of discussion


Edited by Signeg (07/19/16 11:13 AM)


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg] * 1
    #23455168 - 07/19/16 07:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i disagree

:shrug:


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channel your inner Larry David


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: demiu5]
    #23455298 - 07/19/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for an interesting follow up to my thread, all.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23457584 - 07/19/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Even without those shallow cultural trappings your still trapped by culture. You can't survive without it. The fact that you are posting here shows that you are still caught in the matrix.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #23457619 - 07/19/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly right.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #23457714 - 07/19/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Even without those shallow cultural trappings your still trapped by culture. You can't survive without it. The fact that you are posting here shows that you are still caught in the matrix.




truth


my opinion:  seeing as how culture is a [set of] sub-program(s) active among other, more basic programs (instincts), even if one successfully "leaves" their native culture and has a complete change of lifestyle/behavior, aspects of that original culture will always be running, either in the background or foreground, or both.

while conditioning can be altered or MOSTLY overcome, traces will always remain and eventually have some form of influence over the actions of the individual


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channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: demiu5]
    #23457748 - 07/19/16 09:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That's exactly how I see it as well.  Once that wiring gets put in, it becomes virtually impossible not to be affected by it indefinitely.    The brain is plastic, but the programing from those early years is not easily undone.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23457766 - 07/19/16 09:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

All true. Rejecting culture would mean ALL culture...which means ALL OTHER HUMANS. You could be a hermit, but rejection of culture is still participation. In all reality without participation in culture you could not survive long unless you were a hard core son of a bitch. It is better to not wallow in the negative aspects of culture and enjoy the positive aspects of it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Huehuecoyotl] * 1
    #23463783 - 07/21/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I wanted to mention I've often wanted to live under a bridge. 100% serious.

It's been kind of a fantasy of mine. I've desperately yearned for detachment.

Humans cope along three dimensions

  We move toward people (dependent behavior)
  We move against people (aggressive behavior)
  We move away from people (withdrawing behavior)

Healthy persons are able to move in any of these directions when needed.

This summary is grossly insufficient, but neurosis is becoming stuck in one of the three. 

Why this occurs and how to recognize it and heal is a significant subject, but a lot is known.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn] * 2
    #23466627 - 07/22/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
as a successful self-culture-generator what is your secret to not going mad?

my gut tells me that some form of social interaction/regulation is necessary in a life in order to give it perspective, check negative thoughts and keep one in 'shape'.. maybe that is just my bias from being a domesticated city dweller though.. what do you think?




I am not mad, but I have experienced both aloneness and loneliness my entire life. I was never a near-genius as a child, but I preferred science experiments to ball games. I disdained adolescent social games right through high school and suffered as a result of that. I made up for my sexual inexperience in college, but typologically, my wife and I are both INTPs, and we're in a tiny minority of the US (1-3%). I do not think people can take us except in small amounts, for various reasons. We're typically seen as aloof and elitist because we are disciplined in terms of what we eat (no junk food, fast food, or restaurant food), we watch our weight and exercise to maintain our forms, we exercise our minds by reading a lot every day because we enjoy learning in our respective fields of interest, most everyone our age or older seems to resent that we haven't given up, gotten fat, abandoned learning for more sensory pursuits, eg., eating, drinking, laying out on the beach, playing golf, gossiping, bragging about children/grandchildren, etc., etc., etc. Now mind you, I'm now 63, my wife will be 60 in a few weeks. Unlike everyone else we know, we're night owls, usually staying up to 3 or 4 in the morning after watching streamed shows on Netflix, Amazon, or whatever, drinking wine, and then going off to read. Then we'll sleep to 11 am or 12 pm. We don't have contemporaries who take psychedelics either.

Additionally, there IS a generation gap between us and our acquaintances who are 30 years younger than we are. Those who want to be friends are rare people indeed! We are in a different stage of life so we're currently between a rock and a hard place in that we cannot relate to our peers, and we cannot relate to 30-somethings who are just beginning their careers, getting married, or planning a family. With 30 years of additional life experience, one has to keep one's mouth shut when we see things we know are poor choices, else we become a second set of parents for our friends. Wh needs that? One woman has told us that she sees us like "Mother Nature and Father Time" when she trips with us! Thanks but no thanks. Plus, our income is much reduced and fixed (except for some side work that I do) so, for example,  attending the wedding of a couple we know in the West Indies for thousands of dollars is just not gonna happen. :shrug: 

I do satisfy some social need by practicing therapy, but my clients do not become my friends. I long ago gave up joining any existing church or temple (Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist), and I do not have any family. There is one cousin remaining who stays in occasional contact of the remaining 7 (originally 10), and my only brother is estranged indefinitely. So I have, of necessity, learned to turn my focus inward toward psycho-spiritual purusuits to cultivate purpose in life often in place of the pleasures of satisfactory social relations, and in order to maintain my sanity.
Religion is what the individual does with his own solitariness. It runs through three stages, if it evolves to its final satisfaction. It is the transition from God the void to God the enemy, and from God the enemy to God the companion.

"Thus religion is solitariness; and if you are never solitary, you are never religious. Collective enthusiasms, revivals, institutions, churches, rituals, bibles, codes of behaviour, are the trappings of religion, its passing forms. They may be useful, or harmful; they may be authoritatively ordained, or merely temporary expedients. But the end of religion is beyond all this." - Alfred North Whitehead  http://alfrednorthwhitehead.wwwhubs.com/ritm1.htm


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg]
    #23466795 - 07/22/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Signeg said:

I think we don't necessarily need to disconnect forever, but enough time to separate our self from culture to understand who we are





If we want to go inward, to explore, we can experience solitude anytime, right?

Solitude doesn't require we must be alone. 

We can experience stillness and solitude in any situation, such as standing in line at Starbucks.


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: quinn]
    #23467278 - 07/22/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I not think you are alone.  In fact the isolation is by design of media manipulation using semiotics.

Keep in mind, America has very little real culture with a sense of time establishing it.  Lots of society, but few groups that are focusing on needs, and that is what culture is really about.  I speak from being one who greatly engages a quasi culture where commodity is dictated and economy is king.  You'll find that in true culture, money kind of disappears in close, functional relationships.

About the time a human being has to type online to find like minds, culture really changes, eventually.  Break the 100th monkey mold on fears about approaching people, sharing joy, moment by moment in appreciation of our shared experience.

For example the hard edged reference to culture came about 30 years ago in my thinking.  As time has passed, I've learned to understand it better.  Our basic psychology is pretty manipulated, so definition of common ground which is not contrived, is the key to re coming culture.

To start that logical list of vital priorities, long term and short term must be created and refined between rational people with at least average, legal social status.  That list are the fundaments if community.  It can be refined by adding more people for reasoned diversity based in needs.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23472962 - 07/24/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Culture IS society. Culture is not some sanctioned sophisticated belief that only smart people share...it is the totality of human thought. Culture is not just the good, but also the bad and all that comes with it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Huehuecoyotl] * 1
    #23473133 - 07/24/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Culture IS society. Culture is not some sanctioned sophisticated belief that only smart people share...it is the totality of human thought. Culture is not just the good, but also the bad and all that comes with it.




The meanings of words are important, not just complexities to bounce around.  Culture is about cultivation.  Ancient Europeans made the word to describe people working together in ways of greater harmony with all of the processes of cultivation.

Sanctioned originates with "sanctified", insanity means "unsanctified".

Sophisticated:
(of a person, ideas, tastes, manners, etc.) altered by education, experience, etc., so as to be worldly-wise;
not naive:
a sophisticated young socialite; the sophisticated eye of a journalist.
pleasing or satisfactory to the tastes of sophisticates:
sophisticated music.
deceptive; misleading.
complex or intricate, as a system, process, piece of machinery, or the like:
a sophisticated electronic control system.
of, for, or reflecting educated taste, knowledgeable use, etc.:
________
I'm not all about semantics, not by any means, but understanding is important, and words do have specific meanings.

There has been a tremendous amount of manipulation of our language, uses of it and perceptions of meanings.  One of the most devastating to functional understanding is cognitive distortions.  TV taught them for 40 years; game shows, sitcoms, dramas, soap operas, etc. and 2 generations have used them as if they were real and functional for critical thinking.  They are not.  Critical thinking cannot be done with distortions. 

Cognitive therapists developed a list that was used in therapy for people who's were not happy with their perceived existence.  Psychology determined that they were using distortions in processing their perceptions.  Cognitive distortions can be learned through linguistic practices and they become invisible.

COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS

1. All or nothing thinking:  Things are placed in black or white categories.  If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure.


2. Over generalization:  Single event is viewed as continuous failure.


3. Mental filter:  Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.

4. Minimizing:  Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

5. Mind reading:  One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.

6. Fortune Telling:  Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established

7. Catastrophizing:  Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.

8. Emotional reasoning:  One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation. 

9. "Should" statements:  Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.

10. Labeling:  Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.

11. Personalization:  Thinking that the actions or statements of others are a reaction to you.

12. Entitlement:  Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23480614 - 07/26/16 10:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Great point bringing up cognitive distortions!

When I explore my emotional disturbances, they always fall into one of these categories.

I often "should" all over myself.    I can tell when I do because I stink!


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23480661 - 07/26/16 11:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Great point bringing up cognitive distortions!

When I explore my emotional disturbances, they always fall into one of these categories.

I often "should" all over myself.    I can tell when I do because I stink!






should and can't are two of the worst words in any language


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channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: demiu5]
    #23480668 - 07/26/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You shouldn't use the word "worst" as it implies badness.

Good and bad are figments of our imagination.

Crap, there I go again!


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23480827 - 07/26/16 11:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
You shouldn't use the word "worst" as it implies badness.

Good and bad are figments of our imagination.

Crap, there I go again!





[indiscriminate] judgement is an [almost] inevitable fraction of a specific language set, as much as one may try to avoid it



but you're point is well taken.


:thumbup:


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channel your inner Larry David


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: demiu5]
    #23482650 - 07/27/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Great point bringing up cognitive distortions!

When I explore my emotional disturbances, they always fall into one of these categories.

I often "should" all over myself.    I can tell when I do because I stink!




Good to find someone that appreciates what clarity might do, if we use it.

There has been a concerted effort by producers to select productions and scripts, writers, editors, directors etc. that will easily implement the desired distortions since 1979 when the first degrees in semiotics were given out.  There is no in my mind that this is a massive conspiracy covering all media.

But conspiracies cannot be discussed here.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: demiu5]
    #23486595 - 07/28/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
You shouldn't use the word "worst" as it implies badness.

Good and bad are figments of our imagination.

Crap, there I go again!





[indiscriminate] judgement is an [almost] inevitable fraction of a specific language set, as much as one may try to avoid it



but you're point is well taken.


:thumbup:




I don't advocate trying to avoid or get rid of the judgmental mind.

Just to regard it as the meaningless random thought generator that it is.


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone *DELETED* [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23487136 - 07/28/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Signeg

Reason for deletion: -=-



Edited by Signeg (08/01/16 07:59 AM)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg]
    #23487403 - 07/28/16 09:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, as was stated earlier, you simply cannot avoid culture.

If your denying mainstream culture, you still belong to "counter-culture" .

If your totally novel, you will influence your own culture.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: Signeg]
    #23487759 - 07/28/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Signeg said:

Our judgement comes from our perception... They only matter if they are influenced by reality. Your opinion doesn't matter if it has nothing to do with reality. Which is 99% of peoples opinions. Lol.





I guess I don't trust my perceptions very much.

No matter how much reality I think I'm in touch with, it's still MY version of reality.


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InvisibleSigneg
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Re: Totally signing out of culture and going it alone [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23497164 - 07/31/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

These quotes fit well here

“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” - C.G. Jung

"Becoming an ego is painful. Hardly anyone finds his ego prior to the middle of his life. Then most people remain stuck in it and become hardened in it. The still more painful process of ego-transcendence with all its crisis and relapses is accomplished by only a few. But it is just this ego-transcendence that is the decisive task of human life." ~Jean Gebser 1955~

"If there is something that we can't see then we are not in the condition to come to final estimations of the worlds in which we live. If we cannot see beyond the physical... And there is something beyond the physical, it becomes more or less probable that whatever it is that we don't see is the cause of that which we do see. This is an irritating thought but still you can't completely disregard it."



Edited by Signeg (08/01/16 07:57 AM)


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