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qman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: millzy]
#23423824 - 07/08/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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millzy said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
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millzy said: prosecutors are hesitant to convict the very people they cooperate with. it's not ineptitude.
The stories I've read about this prosecutor and the level of the charges, speed in placing them and her 'hey, pat me on the back' news conference suggest otherwise.
yeah, and again, prosecutors are hesitant to convict people who are essentially their coworkers. that explains their expediency much better than incompetence.
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qman said: People like yourself speak of this conflict of interest, yet I never hear any alternatives.
Many times the prosecutors brings it to a grand jury, yet that never satisfies people when it doesn't give them the indictment they want in the first place.
then you're not listening very closely. separate courts that employ special prosecutors who do not have professional relationships with cops seems to be the most viable solution that's being discussed.
Then let me ask you, why would any sane person voluntarily become a law enforcement officer that's going to encounter life and death circumstances on a weekly basis, only to be face of wrath of a "special prosecutor" if his judgment comes into question every time they're involved in a violent altercation?
Who wants to end up in prison for choosing to work as a cop? Wouldn't it be smarter to just to work at Wal-Mart? At least a "special prosecutor" won't be able to put you in prison for 25 years for not putting the correct items on the shelf.
Edited by qman (07/08/16 02:36 PM)
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: qman]
#23423872 - 07/08/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Except in this case, incompetence is the most likely answer.
okay, so instead of going back and forth over this, how about you demonstrate why your claim is true? would you care to do that for me?
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qman said:
Then let me ask you, why would any sane person voluntarily become a law enforcement officer that's going to encounter life and death circumstances on a weekly basis, only to be face of wrath of a "special prosecutor" if his judgment comes into question every time they're involved in a violent altercation?
Who wants to end up in prison for choosing to work as a cop? Wouldn't it be smarter to just to work at Wal-Mart? At least a "special prosecutor" won't be able to put you in prison for 25 years for not putting the correct items on the shelf.
most professions have special boards of people who review their misconduct and issue rulings. but in the case of police officers accused of crimes, because of their direct involvement with the legal system, it makes sense to separate them from the people they often work with on cases.
and if being held accountable for serious mistakes isn't right for someone, perhaps he or she shouldn't be in a position where the stakes are high.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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Litto
Stranger



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Re: Dallas protest shooting - 12 officers shot, 5 dead [Re: Sanguin3]
#23423875 - 07/08/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: millzy]
#23424144 - 07/08/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
Except in this case, incompetence is the most likely answer.
okay, so instead of going back and forth over this, how about you demonstrate why your claim is true? would you care to do that for me?
http://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2015/05/05/will-the-unusual-charges-against-police-officers-in-baltimore-hold-up
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-baltimore-charges-20150522-story.html
There are thousands more if you care to look.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: qman] 1
#23424632 - 07/08/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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qman said:
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millzy said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
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millzy said: police are sometimes charged but rarely convicted. take what's happening in baltimore for example: they got their trial, but from my understanding, they are prosecuting the officers for the freddie gray case in a way that would be impossible to convict them, namely by attempting to determine who exactly caused the injuries that led to his death.
Perhaps that's because the prosecutor is inept.
prosecutors are hesitant to convict the very people they cooperate with. it's not ineptitude.
People like yourself speak of this conflict of interest, yet I never hear any alternatives.
Many times the prosecutors brings it to a grand jury, yet that never satisfies people when it doesn't give them the indictment they want in the first place.
Because citizens give the cops the benefit of the doubt as well. And prosecutors do not put on strong cases. The Ferguson grand jury was a total farce.
There is a very clear alternative: criminal investigation and prosecution of the police is handed off to another jurisdiction, such as the state police and prosecutors. It's not rocket science. Also, skip the grand jury. It's not a requirement.
Another option is to require a federal investigation of all police related homicides. They are all potential civil rights matters and completely within the purview of federal oversight
It should be blatantly obvious that you don't have an officers friends and colleagues running an investigation into wrong doing. That's a total no brainer.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/08/16 07:58 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#23424670 - 07/08/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
millzy said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
Except in this case, incompetence is the most likely answer.
okay, so instead of going back and forth over this, how about you demonstrate why your claim is true? would you care to do that for me?
http://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2015/05/05/will-the-unusual-charges-against-police-officers-in-baltimore-hold-up
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-baltimore-charges-20150522-story.html
There are thousands more if you care to look.
There are not thousands more. In the past decade there have been fewer than 100 prosecutions of police related killings in the United States. As of last summer, I believe it was 50 something, with only 20 something convictions. Out of over 10,000 deaths.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/08/16 08:12 PM)
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: koods]
#23424681 - 07/08/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just to be clear, you don't assume most of those cases are unjustifiable right? Do you look into all these before you start complaining that they're not being convicted? I haven't looked at them all obviously but I know there are a lot where the cop did what anyone else in his position would have done.
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Plain
You are the universe



Registered: 05/30/16
Posts: 1,620
Loc: In the moment
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Eminence]
#23424688 - 07/08/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- "You are not IN the universe, you ARE the universe, an intrinsic part of it. Ultimately you are not a person, but a focal point where the universe is becoming conscious of itself. What an amazing miracle." - Eckhart Tolle “Everybody is ‘you’. Everybody is ‘I’. That’s our name. We all share that.” - Alan Watts "Cosmic apotheosis wears off quicker than Salvia" - Rick Sanchez (voice of Justin Roiland)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Eminence] 1
#23424744 - 07/08/16 08:39 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: Just to be clear, you don't assume most of those cases are unjustifiable right? Do you look into all these before you start complaining that they're not being convicted? I haven't looked at them all obviously but I know there are a lot where the cop did what anyone else in his position would have done.
Other countries know how to police without killing their citizens. We need to learn best practices becasue our current practices are seriously flawed. Someone making a threatening move or not complying or brandishing a knife is not justification for killing them. And we need to stop giving the police the benefit of the doubt. Justifiable homicide is an affirmative defense - that means the defendant must prove he was justified in killing someone. Let's bring these cases to court.
Edited by koods (07/08/16 08:46 PM)
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koods
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Plain] 1
#23424782 - 07/08/16 08:58 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Plain said: http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
Please everyone look at these stats before talking about hpw cops are out to get black folk.
Frankly I'm less concerned about the racial aspect of this than the sheer number of people killed by the police. Since Ferguson, 2,500 people have been killed.
Here's my problem with that article:"The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," Potential lethal force has been stretched to absurd levels. I've seen video after video of shootjng that have been deemed justified where no real threat existed. Kids being shot for pulling up their pants or scratching their heads, or like in Minnesota, reaching for their license.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: koods]
#23424794 - 07/08/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Reading the 12 shot 5 dead update on the thread made me really happy inside, liek really happy. I hope this happens with some sort of regularity now whenever they kill someone.
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Shroomslip
Architekt



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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] 4
#23424819 - 07/08/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I hope you're kidding. You know the first thing to come to mind when I read through this pile of shit and people were holding the guy up as a hero? All the Muslims who held the Orlando shooter up as a hero.
If you're happy this happened, yeah, you're just like them. That is exactly how you sound.
I can't imagine the mental breakdown some of the people in this thread would have if someone had came on the forums declaring they're happy about the Orlando shooting and that gays were targeted. Koods probably would've banned that person on sight. But here it's fine cuz they're cops.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Eminence] 1
#23424820 - 07/08/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: Just to be clear, you don't assume most of those cases are unjustifiable right? Do you look into all these before you start complaining that they're not being convicted? I haven't looked at them all obviously but I know there are a lot where the cop did what anyone else in his position would have done.
So what you're saying is you haven't seen enough instances. Let me help you with that.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cfe_1428457376
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=91f_1349518715
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca5_1311071808
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=229_1407980095
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=283_1452209140
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e75_1392675559
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7ba_1445703849
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=901_1349111432
I mean this is just for starters. It really depends how far the rabbit hole you want to go. Cops kill 2-3 people a day on average. A lot of them are unarmed and many committed no crime at all.
Then every once in a while, something like this happens. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd3_1421439819
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#23424823 - 07/08/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Reading the 12 shot 5 dead update on the thread made me really happy inside, liek really happy. I hope this happens with some sort of regularity now whenever they kill someone.
You want innocent people killed to be met with more innocent people killed?
Okay then...
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Shroomslip]
#23424840 - 07/08/16 09:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its completely different because it involves the police. They operate as a fraternity and their homogeneity is blatantly obvious to anyone who takes a serious look at them. Only a complete moron would try to link high fiving these shooters to praising Orlandos. What is clear is that the government is taking absolutely no action to curb the violence these cops are meting out to the population, disproportionately the black population. They kill people without cause and without repercussion, and they do operate as a cohesive unit. With no other clear options what do you have left? Some pathetic bleating and begging for mercy? No way jose
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23424845 - 07/08/16 09:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Reading the 12 shot 5 dead update on the thread made me really happy inside, liek really happy. I hope this happens with some sort of regularity now whenever they kill someone.
You want innocent people killed to be met with more innocent people killed?
Okay then...
If it involved killing muslims you'd be okay with it, so hush child.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#23424857 - 07/08/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Reading the 12 shot 5 dead update on the thread made me really happy inside, liek really happy. I hope this happens with some sort of regularity now whenever they kill someone.
You want innocent people killed to be met with more innocent people killed?
Okay then...
If it involved killing muslims you'd be okay with it, so hush child.
Really? So you're as bad as I am? Interesting...
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] 1
#23424866 - 07/08/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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No it is not different just because they are police. They are people like anyone else. Some good, some bad, some good ones occasionally do bad things through poor choices and some bad ones occasionally do something good. They are not identical robots. Targeting cops from AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CITY than where the killings took place makes this every bit as bad as the Orlando shooting. Did the shooter verify each cop he shot had killed someone or "was a bad person on a power trip"? No. He just targeted people who happened to be wearing a police uniform. No different than other terrorists storming a mall and targeting people who have an American accent or can't answer questions about their stupid book.
I in general dislike the police as much as the next person. I don't have cop friends or cop family, my only contact with cops is when I've done something wrong so to me we are basically enemies. That doesn't mean I drop all common sense or compassion when it comes to them as individuals and people with families.
Justify your bullshit however you want. Simple fact is if you think this was a good thing or that the cops deserved it or even that this is somehow justified, you are a terrible person. Your moral compass is fucked up.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#23424882 - 07/08/16 09:32 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Its completely different because it involves the police. They operate as a fraternity and their homogeneity is blatantly obvious to anyone who takes a serious look at them. Only a complete moron would try to link high fiving these shooters to praising Orlandos. What is clear is that the government is taking absolutely no action to curb the violence these cops are meting out to the population, disproportionately the black population. They kill people without cause and without repercussion, and they do operate as a cohesive unit. With no other clear options what do you have left? Some pathetic bleating and begging for mercy? No way jose
"operate as a cohesive unit"
You give them too much credit, it they don't stick together there's no point of taking the insane job of policing.
Do you suggest they rat themselves out for no reason other than to put themselves at a major disadvantage once they patrol the streets the next day?
Many of you guys ignore basic human behavior, no one's going to take this risky job without getting a MASSIVE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] 1
#23424892 - 07/08/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Its completely different because it involves the police. They operate as a fraternity and their homogeneity is blatantly obvious to anyone who takes a serious look at them. Only a complete moron would try to link high fiving these shooters to praising Orlandos. What is clear is that the government is taking absolutely no action to curb the violence these cops are meting out to the population, disproportionately the black population. They kill people without cause and without repercussion, and they do operate as a cohesive unit. With no other clear options what do you have left? Some pathetic bleating and begging for mercy? No way jose
the uniform means something. Cops will argue the uniform automatically deserves respect, and they say that kind of thing very often. They are all brothers. They say that mind of thing very often as well. They claim fraternity with each other. They call their union the the fraternal order. They want us to see them as a monolithic block, so don't complain when people do.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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