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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay] * 1
    #23434862 - 07/12/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Doesn't that tell you something?  The statistics clearly show us whites are shot and killed by the police by almost double, why doesn't the media report on it?  Because it's boring news, the media wants to script a narrative that doesn't even exist, looks like you fell for it hook, line, and sinker.





You are correct that the actual number is greater. However your narrative around it is incorrect and actually your approach completely incorrect. Here, washington post explains it simply.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.0e4fa8fd9ed8
Quote:

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.








"unless you first adjust for population"

Which really makes little sense, because it's more important to adjust for interactions with law enforcement, when that's factored in there's NO racial bias against blacks, in fact whites get the shitty end of the stick.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23434893 - 07/12/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
The war of drugs has targeted everyone, I was there when it started in full force and disagreed with it the whole time.




Yes, it has targeted everyone, and yes it is the central source of animosity towards police. However, given that it is the justification for no-knock raids, shooting people's pets, and tear gassing babies, we ought to look at just why the war on drugs was initiated. It was started to target minority groups, originally. Do you disagree with that? The evidence is staggering, and I would be happy to source it for you.

The war on drugs is thuggary, and police officers or complicit.

Quote:

BTW, I have been following and telling people about asset forfeiture for decades, I know all about the injustices with it.




Good. It is thuggary, and theft.

Quote:

The cops on the street aren't responsible for this stuff, the CEO's that shut down US factories and send them to Mexico are just pawns in the game, I don't blame them either.  You have to look at the policymakers, not the hired hands.




Some of us view the politicians as the pawns. I think neither is the case, in any absolute way. Sometimes CEOs are 'pawns', and sometimes politicians are the pawns, but at the end of the day, those willing to compromise their integrity for personal gain are still the bearers of guilt.

Just as Nazi soldiers bore the guilt of their actions.

Quote:

I don't justify police abuse or brutality of any kind, I don't approve of unjustifiable killings either, but cops are many times forced into situations which require deadly force, that's part of the job.




Well, many times they are put into situations which do not require deadly force, and they just happen to kill unarmed black people, or people who have already been subdued (Be sure to watch this first one, now):






How about the woman who "committed suicide" while in police custody? How about the cops who charged a man for bleeding on their uniforms, after beating the shit out of him, because they didn't have anything else on him?

These are thugs. You should oppose thugs. You should oppose these men.




"it was started to target minority groups"

Proof?

Yes, cops who commit unjustified murder do get charged. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/11/former-north-charleston-officer-who-shot-walter-scott-indicted-on-federal-civil-rights-violation/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland ; Yeah, it was ruled a suicide. She acted like s stupid bitch the day she was pulled over, who's fault was that?


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23434970 - 07/12/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)





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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23435217 - 07/12/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Doesn't that tell you something?  The statistics clearly show us whites are shot and killed by the police by almost double, why doesn't the media report on it?  Because it's boring news, the media wants to script a narrative that doesn't even exist, looks like you fell for it hook, line, and sinker.





You are correct that the actual number is greater. However your narrative around it is incorrect and actually your approach completely incorrect. Here, washington post explains it simply.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.0e4fa8fd9ed8
Quote:

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.








"unless you first adjust for population"

Which really makes little sense, because it's more important to adjust for interactions with law enforcement, when that's factored in there's NO racial bias against blacks, in fact whites get the shitty end of the stick.





please explain why that makes no sense? when looking at the rates things are happening to a ratio of a whole it makes no sense to put the rate of happenings against the size of the ratio?

it makes absolute sense. can we get a comment from someone who has taken a statistic course?

you try so hard to demean black folk for someone that's not a racist


--------------------
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23435965 - 07/12/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

"it was started to target minority groups"

Proof?




I mean... two seconds of searching will prove that, but you are on a drug forum, so I would expect you to know these things.

Quote:

Yes, cops who commit unjustified murder do get charged. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/11/former-north-charleston-officer-who-shot-walter-scott-indicted-on-federal-civil-rights-violation/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland ; Yeah, it was ruled a suicide. She acted like s stupid bitch the day she was pulled over, who's fault was that?




I'm kindof surprised that this is all you have in response to that post of mine.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23437339 - 07/13/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:

"it was started to target minority groups"

Proof?




I mean... two seconds of searching will prove that, but you are on a drug forum, so I would expect you to know these things.

Quote:

Yes, cops who commit unjustified murder do get charged. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/11/former-north-charleston-officer-who-shot-walter-scott-indicted-on-federal-civil-rights-violation/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland ; Yeah, it was ruled a suicide. She acted like s stupid bitch the day she was pulled over, who's fault was that?




I'm kindof surprised that this is all you have in response to that post of mine.




The war of drugs has RESULTED in a disproportional amount of arrests, convictions, and incarceration rates for minorities, that does NOT mean the laws were intended to create that outcome.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 50 minutes
Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay] * 1
    #23437370 - 07/13/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

airclay said:
Quote:

qman said:
Doesn't that tell you something?  The statistics clearly show us whites are shot and killed by the police by almost double, why doesn't the media report on it?  Because it's boring news, the media wants to script a narrative that doesn't even exist, looks like you fell for it hook, line, and sinker.





You are correct that the actual number is greater. However your narrative around it is incorrect and actually your approach completely incorrect. Here, washington post explains it simply.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.0e4fa8fd9ed8
Quote:

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.








"unless you first adjust for population"

Which really makes little sense, because it's more important to adjust for interactions with law enforcement, when that's factored in there's NO racial bias against blacks, in fact whites get the shitty end of the stick.





please explain why that makes no sense? when looking at the rates things are happening to a ratio of a whole it makes no sense to put the rate of happenings against the size of the ratio?

it makes absolute sense. can we get a comment from someone who has taken a statistic course?

you try so hard to demean black folk for someone that's not a racist




This black Harvard Professor did his own study looking for the huge discrepancy that you believe in, what he found- http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0

"officers in Houston were about 20 percent less likely to shoot if the suspects were black. This estimate was not precise, and firmer conclusions would require more data. But in various models controlling for different factors and using different definitions of tense situation, Mr.Fryer found that blacks were either less likely to be shot or there was no difference between blacks and whites."

This is how you see if there's a racial bias in police shootings, NOT based on the total populations of each race. :huxleyfacepalm:


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Invisibleairclay
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Registered: 05/13/11
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23437934 - 07/13/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You can pick and choose to do it how ever you want qman, (I'm gonna just roll w this one because it shows the same end result) as long as you recognize what the data shows. which is systemic injustice for ppl of color in their interactions w police.

from your article:
Quote:

A new study confirms that black men and women are treated differently in the hands of law enforcement. They are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.




Quote:

The study did not say whether the most egregious examples — those at the heart of the nation’s debate on police shootings — are free of racial bias. Instead, it examined a larger pool of shootings, including nonfatal ones.

The counterintuitive results provoked debate after the study was posted on Monday, mostly about the volume of police encounters and the scope of the data. Mr. Fryer emphasizes that the work is not the definitive analysis of police shootings, and that more data would be needed to understand the country as a whole. This work focused only on what happens once the police have stopped civilians, not on the risk of being stopped at all. Other research has shown that blacks are more likely to be stopped by the police.




Quote:

The study, a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper, relied on reports filled out by police officers and on police departments willing to share those reports. Recent videos of police shootings have led to questions about the reliability of such accounts. But the results were largely the same whether or not Mr. Fryer used information from narratives by officers.

Such results may not be true in every city. The cities Mr. Fryer used to examine officer-involved shootings make up only about 4 percent of the nation’s population, and serve more black citizens than average.

Moreover, the results do not mean that the general public’s perception of racism in policing is misguided. Lethal uses of force are exceedingly rare. There were 1.6 million arrests in Houston in the years Mr. Fryer studied. Officers fired their weapons 507 times. What is far more common are nonlethal uses of force.

And in these uses of force, Mr. Fryer found racial differences, which is in accord with public perception and other studies.




so please double check your rhetoric because this article supports only your data claim (slightly) but not your narrative of ppl of non-white american cultures being less than.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23438048 - 07/13/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
You can pick and choose to do it how ever you want qman, (I'm gonna just roll w this one because it shows the same end result) as long as you recognize what the data shows. which is systemic injustice for ppl of color in their interactions w police.

from your article:
Quote:

A new study confirms that black men and women are treated differently in the hands of law enforcement. They are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.




Quote:

The study did not say whether the most egregious examples — those at the heart of the nation’s debate on police shootings — are free of racial bias. Instead, it examined a larger pool of shootings, including nonfatal ones.

The counterintuitive results provoked debate after the study was posted on Monday, mostly about the volume of police encounters and the scope of the data. Mr. Fryer emphasizes that the work is not the definitive analysis of police shootings, and that more data would be needed to understand the country as a whole. This work focused only on what happens once the police have stopped civilians, not on the risk of being stopped at all. Other research has shown that blacks are more likely to be stopped by the police.




Quote:

The study, a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper, relied on reports filled out by police officers and on police departments willing to share those reports. Recent videos of police shootings have led to questions about the reliability of such accounts. But the results were largely the same whether or not Mr. Fryer used information from narratives by officers.

Such results may not be true in every city. The cities Mr. Fryer used to examine officer-involved shootings make up only about 4 percent of the nation’s population, and serve more black citizens than average.

Moreover, the results do not mean that the general public’s perception of racism in policing is misguided. Lethal uses of force are exceedingly rare. There were 1.6 million arrests in Houston in the years Mr. Fryer studied. Officers fired their weapons 507 times. What is far more common are nonlethal uses of force.

And in these uses of force, Mr. Fryer found racial differences, which is in accord with public perception and other studies.




so please double check your rhetoric because this article supports only your data claim (slightly) but not your narrative of ppl of non-white american cultures being less than.




It was a small sample study so take it for what it is, a small sample. Either way, Mr.Fryer has enough integrity to post his results even if they were counter to his initial suspicions.


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23438355 - 07/13/16 04:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

haha, now it is a small sample study that should be taken for face value and the guy conducting the survey is simply pedestaled for his honesty.

you're a laugh riot qman. picking and choosing what data represents for yourself.

here's the catch tho, if you want to use the data that Fryer found equalizing the instances of lethal force between races then you must also accept it when the same data finds that uses of non-lethal force did have racial disparities in accord to public perception and other studies.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Offlineqman
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23438496 - 07/13/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
haha, now it is a small sample study that should be taken for face value and the guy conducting the survey is simply pedestaled for his honesty.

you're a laugh riot qman. picking and choosing what data represents for yourself.

here's the catch tho, if you want to use the data that Fryer found equalizing the instances of lethal force between races then you must also accept it when the same data finds that uses of non-lethal force did have racial disparities in accord to public perception and other studies.




I never denied that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system, the debate is why the disparities exist.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23438514 - 07/13/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

James T Harris



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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23439062 - 07/13/16 08:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I can't keep track of what exactly which way you're trying to defend yourself from thread to thread, my bad.

in this one it's just a defense of cops and say that the reactions of officers are generally justified if only people would follow orders.

nah, that's bootlicker talk, enjoy voting for trump :rolleyes:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23439210 - 07/13/16 09:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Speaking of Trump, he's winning in 2 key swing states (Florida and Penn.) and tied in Ohio.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/swing-states-2016-election/2016/07/trump-has-edge-in-key-states-225442

Looks like Trump might take it.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23439919 - 07/14/16 04:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Speaking of Trump, he's winning in 2 key swing states (Florida and Penn.) and tied in Ohio.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/swing-states-2016-election/2016/07/trump-has-edge-in-key-states-225442

Looks like Trump might take it.





It's early


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: sweeper54]
    #23454046 - 07/18/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Airclay, ask yourself this question: if we could somehow flip a magic switch that removes all racism, conscious or subconscious, from the minds of police officers, would the percentage of black people shot by police drop down overnight from 30 to 12 (their proportion of the population)?


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: clam_dude] * 1
    #23454429 - 07/18/16 09:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

airclay believes the law should not be upheld when dealing with blacks because so many end up being jailed and some are shot. In the mind of the liberal they should just a get a free dindu-nuffin' pass so the statistics that damn them can be redacted.

Fact is blacks by their proportion do the most crime and certainly so against whites, which is why they run foul of law enforcement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males

The police know they're 18 and half times more likely to be shot by a black than a black by a police officer. http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

One side shows restraint and the other a total homicidal hatred. But you won't get Obama show support of the thin blue line when he sides the violent thug; e.g.he'd rather claim a gangbanga-purple-dank-doped-violent-thug like Trayvon as his son. Needless to say the support of criminal scum at the Presidential level and down started the BLM movement regardless of the fact Zimmerman was proven by peers to have acted in self-defence.

Similar happens in Australia as we've foolishly imported Sudanese and Somali pests who do the same. Of course, point this out and you're vilified as a racist. http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/academic-stirs-fight-over-race/2005/07/15/1121429359329.html

Even the police won't admit to the problem and hide the facts. Gee, I thought Sub-Saharan African enrichment would be a good thing?!
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/measuring_the_rise_of_the_victorian_feral/asc/P40/

The Aborigines are similar and we now have what could be called tribal African v's Aboriginal warfare with one another. http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/perth-teenager-critical-after-wild-brawl-in-garrawheen/news-story/f2d22558f5952a859bd73d65c500f075

You'd think they'd get along, but like in the US, the greatest killer of blacks is other blacks. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/a-matter-of-black-lives/399386/

It's the way it is with blacks to get stabby, rape their children, welfare mooch and fail at school then whine ol'YT owes them for all their failings. They have a low sense of self-control and high compulsion. Probably fine to have if scratching a living as a nomadic hunter and gatherer with no written language, but not so useful in civilised society where planning and scope are critical requirements. http://www.ambrosekane.com/2015/05/03/is-black-dysfunction-genetic-a-reply-to-a-major-contradiction-in-hbd-theory-part-2/

http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/low-impulse-control-poor-future-time.html

Of course I expect the libbies to froth at the mouth on this as their world that all are equal crashes down around them. But there are ample news articles and statistics to verify what I have said. http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/

Of course the US liberal media stonewalls much of the black on white crime. Here's a good channel to fill in the dots. https://www.youtube.com/user/ColinFlaherty712

Worth watching:



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