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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman] 3
#23423933 - 07/08/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people? 
People are treated differently based on everything in life...
Great, we're making progress. Does that mean we should ignore the fact that black teens are 20 times more likely to be killed by a police than white teens? Or is everything good because that's just the way it is?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Yes, as by itself it's a meaningless statistic.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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What's meaningless is your last post. Maybe you can explain why you think it's meaningless that 20 times more black teens are killed by police even after adjusting for crime rates?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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MConchis
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay] 2
#23424797 - 07/08/16 09:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have to agree with many of the things you are thinking. I think part of the problem is the whole idea that we have to have a "war" on drugs, a war on terror, a war, a war, a war so that we make the police more and more like a military unit that become soldiers more than peace officers. Instead of maintaining the peace they become armed warriors out to combat the "bad" guys. It creates a division between protecting us from people that are acting dangerously to becoming armed operations who see non-compliance with the smallest order as a sign that the citizen is the enemy.
It also creates a division that closes the police into a unit that stand with their own, because after all, there is a war going on and everyone else is the enemy. So their loyalties lie with their army, not all of us.
Profiling is a real thing, they can deny it, but it's real. There are disparities that can only be explained by a kind of profiling, but again I think it comes back to the whole war on thing. It's like you identify the enemy by the uniforms they wear, the language they speak, the deference they show.
It's something that has to be addressed, but to my way of thinking, it has to come back to demilitarizing the police and returning them to people that maintain the peace rather than having some mission to quash an impending invasion of an identifiable "other."
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
Loc: UK/France/US
Last seen: 8 months, 19 days
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman] 1
#23425607 - 07/09/16 03:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people? 
People are treated differently based on everything in life which includes age, sex, wealth, appearance, ethnicity, and the car they drive.
After a women sees the size of my penis, I get treated differently.
lol qman accepts that people are judged based on race but he might just burst a blood vessel trying to pretend its not a microcosm of the societal and global level. prejudice based on race is racism. When youre at the top of that system by being white, i can understand its harder to see but you seem to be making a huge effort to resist it. Prejudices directly lead to how these people are dealt with.
your race and your small penis (tee hee) doesnt change, qman, all those other factors can and do.
YES we should wait for all the facts but there are some things that are all too clear. Sure, there are bound to be some details we miss in those videos but are they significant enough to change what clearly happened? What will justify the pointblank shooting of Sterling while he was on the floor with 2 police?? What will exonerate the officier who shot someone who reached for their license and registration when asked to?
Here Are 7 White People Who Pointed Guns at Cops and Didn’t Get Killed yes I know that many white people are shot too, but you can see quite clearly that prejudices affecting split-second reactions tend to lead to more black deaths. More effort tends to be made with whites to end things peacefully. Police forces across the country are accepting and learning about these biases and how they translate into abuses.. but perhaps qman will be the last bastion of racism-denial.
--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
Loc: UK/France/US
Last seen: 8 months, 19 days
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Tipote] 2
#23425703 - 07/09/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people? 
People are treated differently based on everything in life which includes age, sex, wealth, appearance, ethnicity, and the car they drive.
As a white, male, in your 40s, who is reasonably well-off and good looking, with a nice car (assumption about your wealth, looks and car) puts you at an advantage as to how the police will deal with you. Its often the difference between life and death, prison or freedom. Just because you aren't directly affected, it shouldnt blind you to systems of oppression against others. and back we come full circle to white privelege.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
Loc: UK/France/US
Last seen: 8 months, 19 days
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Tipote] 2
#23425726 - 07/09/16 06:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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a post from a friend..
Quote:
MLK prompted us (many didn't listen) about the danger of people who know "better" and refuse to speak out and speak up.
From Dr. King: I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” MLK (Letter From a Birmingham Jail)
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
Loc: UK/France/US
Last seen: 8 months, 19 days
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Tipote] 2
#23425732 - 07/09/16 06:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Tipote]
#23425745 - 07/09/16 06:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said: a post from a friend..
Quote:
MLK prompted us (many didn't listen) about the danger of people who know "better" and refuse to speak out and speak up.
From Dr. King: I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” MLK (Letter From a Birmingham Jail)
 MLK was one of the greatest.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people? 
People are treated differently based on everything in life...
Great, we're making progress. Does that mean we should ignore the fact that black teens are 20 times more likely to be killed by a police than white teens? Or is everything good because that's just the way it is?
It doesn't take into account that those killings are more likely justified, why are young blacks more likely to attack a police officer?
Why are young blacks more likely to murder another person?
Why are young blacks more likely to not comply with the police?
So maybe this "20 times more likely to be killed by the police" makes complete sense at the end of the day.
Did you ever think that law enforcement's' response to a specific demographic is based on logic and wisdom, not hatred?
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qman
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Tipote]
#23425943 - 07/09/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people? 
People are treated differently based on everything in life which includes age, sex, wealth, appearance, ethnicity, and the car they drive.
After a women sees the size of my penis, I get treated differently.
lol qman accepts that people are judged based on race but he might just burst a blood vessel trying to pretend its not a microcosm of the societal and global level. prejudice based on race is racism. When youre at the top of that system by being white, i can understand its harder to see but you seem to be making a huge effort to resist it. Prejudices directly lead to how these people are dealt with.
your race and your small penis (tee hee) doesnt change, qman, all those other factors can and do.
YES we should wait for all the facts but there are some things that are all too clear. Sure, there are bound to be some details we miss in those videos but are they significant enough to change what clearly happened? What will justify the pointblank shooting of Sterling while he was on the floor with 2 police?? What will exonerate the officier who shot someone who reached for their license and registration when asked to?
Here Are 7 White People Who Pointed Guns at Cops and Didn’t Get Killed yes I know that many white people are shot too, but you can see quite clearly that prejudices affecting split-second reactions tend to lead to more black deaths. More effort tends to be made with whites to end things peacefully. Police forces across the country are accepting and learning about these biases and how they translate into abuses.. but perhaps qman will be the last bastion of racism-denial.
What about the black people who pointed guns at cops and didn't get killed?
Can't report those stories.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Tipote]
#23425954 - 07/09/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people? 
People are treated differently based on everything in life which includes age, sex, wealth, appearance, ethnicity, and the car they drive.
As a white, male, in your 40s, who is reasonably well-off and good looking, with a nice car (assumption about your wealth, looks and car) puts you at an advantage as to how the police will deal with you. Its often the difference between life and death, prison or freedom. Just because you aren't directly affected, it shouldnt blind you to systems of oppression against others. and back we come full circle to white privelege.
So you want to do away with statistical commonsense that's ingrained in every human working in law enforcement?
Young people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Males are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Poor people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Or is it just too easy to resist the race card because that's where your real passion is, calling others racists.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
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Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman] 1
#23425982 - 07/09/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: It doesn't take into account that those killings are more likely justified, why are young blacks more likely to attack a police officer?
Why are young blacks more likely to murder another person?
Why are young blacks more likely to not comply with the police?
So maybe this "20 times more likely to be killed by the police" makes complete sense at the end of the day.
Did you ever think that law enforcement's' response to a specific demographic is based on logic and wisdom, not hatred?
I don't think anyone here is arguing police shouldn't defend themselves if their lives are in danger.
And I don't think anyone here is arguing people from poor communities, who are disproportionally black, don't commit more crime.
The article even showed that blacks are 3 times more likely to commit violent crime. But that doesn't justify blacks being 20 times more likely to be killed.
The fact is that anyone can harm a police officer, and police should treat everyone as a potential threat. They shouldn't shoot someone just because they're black and they don't want to take any chances. We see video after video of blacks being shot by cops without probable cause. THAT'S the problem.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman] 1
#23425992 - 07/09/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: So you want to do away with statistical commonsense that's ingrained in every human working in law enforcement?
YES! You can't shoot somebody just because they're black and you think they have a higher probability of harming you. You need to treat each incidence as a potential threat, and treat the person equally regardless of color.
Quote:
qman said: Young people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Males are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Poor people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Or is it just too easy to resist the race card because that's where your real passion is, calling others racists.
Why should there be an outcry if they're not being killed at the same rate?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 12 hours, 38 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: It doesn't take into account that those killings are more likely justified, why are young blacks more likely to attack a police officer?
Why are young blacks more likely to murder another person?
Why are young blacks more likely to not comply with the police?
So maybe this "20 times more likely to be killed by the police" makes complete sense at the end of the day.
Did you ever think that law enforcement's' response to a specific demographic is based on logic and wisdom, not hatred?
I don't think anyone here is arguing police shouldn't defend themselves if their lives are in danger.
And I don't think anyone here is arguing people from poor communities, who are disproportionally black, don't commit more crime.
The article even showed that blacks are 3 times more likely to commit violent crime. But that doesn't justify blacks being 20 times more likely to be killed.
The fact is that anyone can harm a police officer, and police should treat everyone as a potential threat. They shouldn't shoot someone just because they're black and they don't want to take any chances. We see video after video of blacks being shot by cops without probable cause. THAT'S the problem.
Maybe the reason why the rate of cops shooting blacks is higher is because the get into more physical altercations with law enforcement!!
Why did Michael Brown get shot that day? He sucker punched a cop in the eye and then tried to steal his gun, he was killed and it was justifiable, that's why blacks are killed at a higher rate than other demographics!
So is this a police problem? No, it's a young black male problem in most the cases. If a cop kills someone for no justification, we already have laws and a system to deal with that reality.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: So you want to do away with statistical commonsense that's ingrained in every human working in law enforcement?
YES! You can't shoot somebody just because they're black and you think they have a higher probability of harming you. You need to treat each incidence as a potential threat, and treat the person equally regardless of color.
Quote:
qman said: Young people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Males are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Poor people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Or is it just too easy to resist the race card because that's where your real passion is, calling others racists.
Why should there be an outcry if they're not being killed at the same rate?
Males are NOT being killed at the same rate as females, where's the outcry?
Older people are NOT being killed at the same rate as younger people, where's the outcry?
Why is the outcry only there when there's a different rate based on race?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
#23426081 - 07/09/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: Young people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Males are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Poor people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Or is it just too easy to resist the race card because that's where your real passion is, calling others racists.
Why should there be an outcry if they're not being killed at the same rate?
Males are NOT being killed at the same rate as females, where's the outcry?
Older people are NOT being killed at the same rate as younger people, where's the outcry?
Why is the outcry only there when there's a different rate based on race?
There is no outcry when people don't get killed enough. The outcry is when people get killed too much. That's why there is outcry over black shootings.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 12 hours, 38 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: Young people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Males are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Poor people are more likely to be violent, where is your outcry about prejudging them?
Or is it just too easy to resist the race card because that's where your real passion is, calling others racists.
Why should there be an outcry if they're not being killed at the same rate?
Males are NOT being killed at the same rate as females, where's the outcry?
Older people are NOT being killed at the same rate as younger people, where's the outcry?
Why is the outcry only there when there's a different rate based on race?
There is no outcry when people don't get killed enough. The outcry is when people get killed too much. That's why there is outcry over black shootings.
"The outcry is when people get killed too much"
You mean like males and younger people?
You're still dogging the truth, why are males getting killed at a much higher rate than females?
Why are younger people getting killed at a much higher rate than older people?
It's hard to face the hypocrisy in your reasoning, throwing that race card is just such a addictive habit isn't it?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman] 1
#23426239 - 07/09/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: There is no outcry when people don't get killed enough. The outcry is when people get killed too much. That's why there is outcry over black shootings.
You mean like males and younger people?
What?!? You previously said it's justified that blacks are being shot at 20 times the rate of whites, but now you're saying young white males are getting killed too much? 
Quote:
qman said: You're still dogging the truth, why are males getting killed at a much higher rate than females?
Why are younger people getting killed at a much higher rate than older people?
It's hard to face the hypocrisy in your reasoning, throwing that race card is just such a addictive habit isn't it?
Can you be specific about what truth I'm dodging?
The debate seems to be about whether or not it's ok to kill blacks simply because their race poses a statistically higher threat to cops. I'm arguing no one should be killed unless a cop's life is clearly in danger.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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