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Invisibleairclay
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Dallas shootings * 3
    #23423001 - 07/08/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Protests-in-Dallas-Over-Alton-Sterling-Death-385784431.html
Quote:

Five officers are dead — four Dallas police officers and one Dallas Area Rapid Transit officer — after police say two snipers ambushed and opened fire on police officers at the end of a peaceful protest against nationwide officer-involved shootings Thursday night.




I’m feeling a lot this morning. (as is prob visible in my posts)

I don’t know how to reconcile my own morality with my outrage. Over and over I’m reading that violence is not the answer. I’m reading. I’m agreeing. I’m full of remorse for innocent lives lost
(repeat ad nauseam)

I am also reminded that there are free men who are not innocent. There are men with weapons upholding a different kind of morality without consequences

When a police force operates outside of the law they are sworn to uphold, are we surprised if the public reaction is lawlessness?

Will police continue to stand in solidarity with murderers, if their own lives are in danger for it?
We should be able to have a harsh conversation about police brutality and resistance without condoning the actions of the shooters

We are all responsible

No justice = No peace


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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OfflineMaroon
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Registered: 08/25/15
Posts: 1,897
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23423158 - 07/08/16 10:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone notice how fast the media solves these "Terror attacks" before any due process or actual objective analyzation. Seems like they are reading off a script at the rate they are proving things that take many years in trial


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UNDENIABLE PROOF A MODERATOR (Enlil) USES FRAUDULENT POSTS TO SUPOORT HIS OPINIONS.  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23596771#23596771 ; anyone can verify my original post in its unedited format. This proves the length the disinfo whores will go to defend pseudo theories. What quack jobs. Time to get out of moms basement.

One must ask why they would be complicit in crimes against humanity? Is debt based money really worth whoring out your credibility for?


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23423162 - 07/08/16 10:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Do you know what would help?  When the President of the United States doesn't go on TV to stir the pot and incite people based on his prejudgments of the situation!

Did he ever apologize for prejudging the Zimmerman case based on racial bigotry?  Nope.

Did he ever apologize for prejudging the Michael Brown case based on racial bigotry? Nope.

He has blood on his hands be claiming some innocent black  was killed by a white person because of racism, in both cases he was WRONG!

Now, to have a honest discussion about police brutality and abuse of power, we need to make it non-racial based to have any credibility. White people are ALSO victims of police brutality, they are murdered by the police even more than blacks.

If you and your BLM mates want to make this a black vs white police issue, you're going to remain the big losers you currently are in the political world. Because at the end of the day, BLM isn't concerned about black lives, they're only concerned about protesting for political show.


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OfflineMaroon
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23423197 - 07/08/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

My question is how does the media solve these things nearly instantaneous as if they are resign from a script. When these details need due process and take many many months of objective analyzation.

Reporting "facts" and solving crimes moments after they happen are not the jobs of reporters.

So how are they now outpacing the judicial system exponentially now on these highly politicized and often linked to gun legislation after each one of these suspected false
Flag events (used to pass unpopular laws)


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UNDENIABLE PROOF A MODERATOR (Enlil) USES FRAUDULENT POSTS TO SUPOORT HIS OPINIONS.  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23596771#23596771 ; anyone can verify my original post in its unedited format. This proves the length the disinfo whores will go to defend pseudo theories. What quack jobs. Time to get out of moms basement.

One must ask why they would be complicit in crimes against humanity? Is debt based money really worth whoring out your credibility for?


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Maroon]
    #23423251 - 07/08/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Maroon said:
My question is how does the media solve these things nearly instantaneous as if they are resign from a script. When these details need due process and take many many months of objective analyzation.

Reporting "facts" and solving crimes moments after they happen are not the jobs of reporters.

So how are they now outpacing the judicial system exponentially now on these highly politicized and often linked to gun legislation after each one of these suspected false
Flag events (used to pass unpopular laws)




It's a quick rush to judgment for the narrative they want to create, if one was to look back at the Martin and Brown cases in the media if would be laughable, it was full of lies and misinformation.

The retards in the BLM group listen to that crap and buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Most don't know the facts and details of the case, the media wants to stir the pot.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman] * 1
    #23423287 - 07/08/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The retards in the BLM group listen to that crap and buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Most don't know the facts and details of the case, the media wants to stir the pot.



Can you let us know what it is the media said about this latest shooting that is "crap", or that is "stirring the pot"???  Thanks.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineMaroon
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23423316 - 07/08/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

So how can people claiming to be credible on here cough cough Enlil who just regurgitate the known misinfo and disinfo the media lies to us about as being more credible then independent objective thinkers


--------------------
UNDENIABLE PROOF A MODERATOR (Enlil) USES FRAUDULENT POSTS TO SUPOORT HIS OPINIONS.  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23596771#23596771 ; anyone can verify my original post in its unedited format. This proves the length the disinfo whores will go to defend pseudo theories. What quack jobs. Time to get out of moms basement.

One must ask why they would be complicit in crimes against humanity? Is debt based money really worth whoring out your credibility for?


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23423355 - 07/08/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
The retards in the BLM group listen to that crap and buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Most don't know the facts and details of the case, the media wants to stir the pot.



Can you let us know what it is the media said about this latest shooting that is "crap", or that is "stirring the pot"???  Thanks.




Hmm, how about jumping to a conclusion even before an investigation.  Here's the governor playing mind reader. :facepalm: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/07/minn-cop-fatally-shoots-man-during-traffic-stop-aftermath-broadcast-on-facebook/

The Minnesota incident may very well be a case of police killing, but lets wait for all of the facts, doesn't that sound reasonable? 

The Louisiana incident may not be police misconduct at all, when you physically fight the police, you're usually  always in the wrong (especially when you have an illegal gun), either way people should wait for an investigation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/06/video-captures-white-baton-rouge-police-officer-fatally-shooting-black-man-sparking-outrage/

The title kind of says it all, "outrage".  How can anyone have "outrage" until the facts come out?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Maroon]
    #23423364 - 07/08/16 11:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Maroon said:
So how can people claiming to be credible on here cough cough Enlil who just regurgitate the known misinfo and disinfo the media lies to us about as being more credible then independent objective thinkers



The only thing you know about the shooting is what the media told you.  Being an independent objective thinker is great, but it doesn't mean you can make up your own facts about the case.

I still want to know what it is the media said about the Dallas shooting that is "crap", or that is "stirring the pot"...


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23423370 - 07/08/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Can you let us know what it is the media said about this latest shooting that is "crap", or that is "stirring the pot"???  Thanks.




Hmm, how about jumping to a conclusion even before an investigation.  Here's the governor playing mind reader. :facepalm: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/07/minn-cop-fatally-shoots-man-during-traffic-stop-aftermath-broadcast-on-facebook/

The Minnesota incident may very well be a case of police killing, but lets wait for all of the facts, doesn't that sound reasonable? 

The Louisiana incident may not be police misconduct at all, when you physically fight the police, you're usually  always in the wrong (especially when you have an illegal gun), either way people should wait for an investigation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/06/video-captures-white-baton-rouge-police-officer-fatally-shooting-black-man-sparking-outrage/

The title kind of says it all, "outrage".  How can anyone have "outrage" until the facts come out?



Was any of that about the Dallas shooting?  That's what I asked about.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23423415 - 07/08/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

it's like I'm trying to explain what a cube is to qman but, he constantly demands the square on front is all that exists.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dont-blame-black-lives-matter-for-the-deaths-of-dallas-cops_us_577f9409e4b01edea78d6514

Quote:

Five cops were killed on Thursday night at a Black Lives Matter rally in Dallas, Texas by snipers who targeted officers in an “ambush-style” attack. Seven other cops were shot as were two civilians, according to the Associated Press. One suspect died in a standoff with police, and three other suspects are in police custody.

Like clockwork, some people immediately and unfairly laid blame on the Black Lives Matter movement Thursday night, suggesting that the organization is in some way responsible for the cop killings. That is not only dangerously misguided but also entirely untrue.

Friday morning during a press conference, Dallas Police Chief David Brown said:

The suspect said he was upset about Black Lives Matter. He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. He was upset at white people. He wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.

The suspect stated that we will eventually find the IEDs. The suspect stated he was not affiliated within groups and he stated that he did this alone. The suspect said other things that are part of this investigation so that we can make sure that everyone associated with this tragic event is brought to justice.
This statement will undoubtedly add fuel to the fire, and racist America will insist that the horrid actions of one shooter is reflective of an entire race, or in this case, a movement that aims to protect an entire race. But the only thing that this tragedy proves, once again, is that one angry person with easy access to guns can incite horror. Mass shootings in this country are overwhelmingly committed by white men, and yet, have you ever heard someone blame the entire white race for one white person’s crimes?

The sniper’s attacks were deliberate and his actions despicable, but they are in no way reflective of or represented by the Black Lives Matter movement. BLM sent a tweet on Thursday night that reinforced this message:

#BlackLivesMatter advocates dignity, justice and freedom. Not murder.

— Black Lives Matter (@Blklivesmatter) July 8, 2016
Prior to the shooting, the protest on the streets of Dallas was peaceful and controlled. It was led by protesters who spoke out against the police killings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. The deaths of these black men, which happened on consecutive days, catalyzed outrage and prompted protests in cities across the country. However, just because the movement aims to end police violence against black lives does NOT mean it encourages violence against police by black people. Black Lives Matter has never, ever insinuated that other lives don’t. And dismissing the movement’s real agenda ignores the torment and terror protesters faced Thursday night, too.

The snipers’ motivations were evidently fueled by hate and their actions are certainly condemned by the movement. Black Lives Matter is a nationwide organization that aims to affirm “black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.” It promotes engagement and empathy through peaceful demonstrations and other powerful tactics that make clear that violence is in no way tolerated.

This message of condemnation against cop killings has been repeated countless times, especially during past isolated shootings of police officers by black civilians. In December 2014, when Ismaaiyl Abdulah Brinsley ― a black man from Maryland ― fatally shot NYPD officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos as revenge for Michael Brown and Eric Garner’s deaths, the founders of the Black Lives Matter movement immediately issued a statement that disparaged Brinsley’s actions. They told HuffPost that “an eye for an eye is not our vision of justice.”

Opal Tometi, one of the co-founders of the Black Lives Matter movement, later wrote a blog for HuffPost in response to the same tragic shooting, setting the record straight and pushing back against the dangerous narrative being shaped around the movement’s motivations.

“This is a challenging moment, but we must maintain the integrity of our message and moral movement,” Tometi wrote. “We still have the moral high ground, and we cannot allow for it to be undermined.”

The shooting in Dallas, which was the deadliest day for police since 9/11, is horrific in every way. Lives were lost and chaos and pain were experienced yet again during an already tragic week. Perhaps what makes the tragedy even more unbearable is that, during the protest, the Dallas Police Department shared pictures on Twitter showing police officers posing with protesters. It was a message from the department expressing solidarity and an understanding of the community’s concerns. DPD has openly welcomed protests and shown a level of engagement with the community in ways that is not always seen among other police departments. 

Men, women, boys & girls gathered @ Belo Garden Park for the demonstration re: recent police involved shootings. pic.twitter.com/gah2Q3tqG6

— Dallas Police Depart (@DallasPD) July 8, 2016
We all mourn the deaths of the officers who were killed on Thursday. Like Sterling and Castile, they did not deserve to die. But, even as we grieve, people should be cautioned not to spread misconceptions about the movement and allege any connections of it to the shooting in Dallas.

Just because BLM denounces police killings of black people doesn’t mean members of the movement don’t care about the unjust death of police. You can (and should) care about black lives and care about cops at the same time.

Let’s be clear: Black Lives Matter is an organization that spreads love, not hate ― and it condemns violence altogether. We should focus our energy on remembering those who have lost their lives to gun violence, both this week and every other. We must destroy vicious ideology that claims the Dallas shooting promotes a “race war” in any way. We must not compromise the integrity of a movement that deserves respect. We must figure out how to use our anger as fuel and identify actionable ways to bring about peace in a world where chaos seems to dominate. We must stand together in solidarity, even (and especially) as we mourn, to help spread unity and bring about peace.

These are tragic times upon us. The only way we’ll heal is by understanding and sharing the honest truth.




--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Offlineqman
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23423424 - 07/08/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Can you let us know what it is the media said about this latest shooting that is "crap", or that is "stirring the pot"???  Thanks.




Hmm, how about jumping to a conclusion even before an investigation.  Here's the governor playing mind reader. :facepalm: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/07/minn-cop-fatally-shoots-man-during-traffic-stop-aftermath-broadcast-on-facebook/

The Minnesota incident may very well be a case of police killing, but lets wait for all of the facts, doesn't that sound reasonable? 

The Louisiana incident may not be police misconduct at all, when you physically fight the police, you're usually  always in the wrong (especially when you have an illegal gun), either way people should wait for an investigation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/06/video-captures-white-baton-rouge-police-officer-fatally-shooting-black-man-sparking-outrage/

The title kind of says it all, "outrage".  How can anyone have "outrage" until the facts come out?



Was any of that about the Dallas shooting?  That's what I asked about.




Wasn't the Dallas shooting the result of the two recent cop shootings of black men?


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23423442 - 07/08/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

it was the result of constantly being inundated with news of people you identify with being the targets of suspect procedural handling from the courts down to the beat cops coupled with massive inaction and disregard of it's existence

(I used "people you identify w" to keep it race ambiguous and cover all police brutality)


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Offlineqman
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23423459 - 07/08/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I never claimed BLM had any responsibility for the Dallas shooting.


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23423492 - 07/08/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The article was more-so posted to spearhead any ignorance in advance.

But you are the one who mentioned BLM and def inferred blame is to be had for the situation in general, which has led to this shooting.

Quote:

qman said:
Do you know what would help?  When the President of the United States doesn't go on TV to stir the pot and incite people based on his prejudgments of the situation!

He has blood on his hands be claiming some innocent black  was killed by a white person because of racism, in both cases he was WRONG!

Now, to have a honest discussion about police brutality and abuse of power, we need to make it non-racial based to have any credibility. White people are ALSO victims of police brutality, they are murdered by the police even more than blacks.

If you and your BLM mates want to make this a black vs white police issue, you're going to remain the big losers you currently are in the political world. Because at the end of the day, BLM isn't concerned about black lives, they're only concerned about protesting for political show.





Quote:

The retards in the BLM group listen to that crap and buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Most don't know the facts and details of the case, the media wants to stir the pot.





--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23423503 - 07/08/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

http://justice.gawker.com/police-reform-is-impossible-in-america-1683262551

Quote:

In recent weeks, the White House has reaffirmed its commitment to strengthening "community policing" around the country. The U.S. Conference of Mayors has coalesced around the same theme, releasing a report days ago with recommendations for community policing measures to be adopted nationally. The suggestions for building better "relationships" and boosting "trust" are comprehensive but, for a national crisis brought on by the killing of unarmed black people, there's one thing conspicuously absent from the public policy solutions: the acknowledgement of racism.

The New Testament says that faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Well, in the absence of data to support excessive policing and police brutality in communities of color, it appears that America has just stepped out on faith.

Rates of violent crime are down and have been falling sharply for more than 20 years. In fact, since the early 90s, the national homicide rate has fallen by 51 percent, forcible rapes have declined by 35 percent, robberies have decreased by 56 percent and the rate of aggravated assault has been cut by 45 percent. And black Americans have contributed to the decline. For blacks, rates of robbery and serious property offenses are the lowest they've been in more than 40 years. Murder, rape, assault, domestic violence—all down.

America is safer than it was 20 years ago. Really. Still, white Americans (and many black Americans, for that matter) believe there's more violent crime than there actually is, and that blacks are largely responsible for it.

In fact, nearly half of white Americans polled believe that violent crime has increased in the last 20 years. Another 13 percent believe that it's stayed the same. Less than a quarter of whites realize there are less violent crimes today than there were in the 90s when the crack epidemic and gang violence were at their height. Even more, whites overestimate just how much blacks are involved in "serious street crime" and, on average, believe that black people commit a larger proportion of crime than whites do. According to a 2012 study by researchers at the University at Albany, whites significantly overestimate the share of armed robberies, break-ins and drug crimes committed by black people.

So, this is how we get to Rudy Giuliani, a man once in charge of the nation's largest police force, insisting that, "White police officers wouldn't be [in black neighborhoods] if [blacks] weren't killing each other" as a justification for the killings of unarmed black people. This is how we get Stop and Frisk policies, Tamir Rice shot dead in a park, John Crawford shot dead in Wal-Mart, Akai Gurley shot dead in a dark stairwell, Miriam Carey shot dead outside the White House (the list goes on and on.) And this is also how we get a grand jury reviewing video of Eric Garner choked to death and seeing no evidence of a crime. Each is an example of racist policing based on the assumption of threat.

In a country that has identified black people as its criminal element, public safety (and perceived security) is more tied to the suppression of blacks than it is to the suppression of crime. And as long as the public insists on its myth of black criminality—almost as an article of faith—police practices will be impossible to reform.

In the summer of 1963, Boston public television aired "The Negro and the American Promise," an hour-long examination of racial tension in America featuring interviews with Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X and James Baldwin conducted by renowned psychologist Kenneth Clark. During his segment, Baldwin delivered a blistering indictment of the white American psyche that is essential to untangle the myth of black criminality and its serviceability to American identity and feelings of security.

In a country that has identified black people as its criminal element, public safety (and perceived security) is more tied to the suppression of blacks than it is to the suppression of crime. And as long as the public insists on its myth of black criminality—almost as an article of faith—police practices will be impossible to reform.

"What white people have to do," Baldwin offers, "is try and find out in their own hearts why it was necessary to have a Nigger in the first place...If I'm not a Nigger here and you invented him, you, the white people, invented him, then you've got to find out why. And the future of the country depends on that."

"Nigger" as used by Baldwin is, of course, more than an epithet. It is arguably the very articulation of racism in this country. Its utterance summons a phantom that is as essential to American identity as the American Dream and the Pursuit of Happiness. So, when Baldwin talks about the creation of the Nigger, he's speaking to more than the word. He is assigning responsibility for a construct that has permeated every single American institution, one essential to the nation's founding and development.

Willie Horton, for example, was not the Nigger but it was conjured out of his cold stare, from OJ's courtroom smirk and even seen by some in the form of our "contemptuous" attorney general. Darren Wilson invoked the Nigger quite adeptly in his testimony before a grand jury to convince them it was necessary to shoot an unarmed Michael Brown at least six times.

"He looked up at me and had the most intense aggressive face. The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked," said Wilson about the moments before he fired the first bullet into Brown.

"At this point," Wilson said, "it looked like he was almost bulking up to run through the shots, like it was making him mad that I'm shooting at him. And the face he had was looking straight through me, like I wasn't even there, I wasn't even anything in his way."

More bullets. Then the final shot into Brown's head from 148 feet away.

"And then when it went into him, the demeanor on his face went blank, the aggression was gone, it was gone, I mean, I knew he stopped, the threat was stopped," said Wilson.

A grand jury believed it. A great many Americans find the story believable—most without ever even having to hear it from Wilson's lips or read the transcript.

So, why does America need such a narrative? The question is something of a psychoanalytic approach to our country's policing problem but one that's been gaining traction in the media as of late. Ta-Nehisi Coates gestured toward it in his column for The Atlantic weeks ago. He wrote:

"...And knowing that identity is not simply defined by what we are, but what we are not, can it be that our police help give us identity, by branding one class of people as miscreants, outsiders, and thugs, and thus establishing some other class as upstanding, as citizens, as Americans? Does the feeling of being besieged serve some actual purpose?"
I am not white. The Nigger has never been of any use to me so, unfortunately, I don't think the question is mine to answer. I do have my theories, though. I imagine, like Coates seems to, that identifying blacks as this country's criminals helps white Americans dismiss their own criminal activity as incidental (teenage drug use, insider trading, mass shootings, etc). But I think it also must help to organize their fear in an uncertain world. Like "Goldstein" in Orwell's 1984, perhaps the Nigger gives white Americans something specific to fear so they don't fear everything—including themselves and each other.

Ultimately, the contrast between the reality of black crime and this nation's perception of it reveals just how invested in the myth of the Nigger America actually is. And, as protesters push forward and leaders federal and local circle around "community policing" as reform, Baldwin's question will only become more urgent. White Americans of good conscience will have to confront their boogeyman head on. Because the truth is that there can be no "community policing" in black communities without engaging the community, without engaging black people and our distortion in the American imagination.

Donovan X. Ramsey is a multimedia journalist whose work puts an emphasis on race and class. Donovan has written for outlets including MSNBC, Ebony, and TheGrio, among others. He's currently a Demos Emerging Voices fellow.




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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23423521 - 07/08/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/08/racial_bias_in_criminal_justice_whites_don_t_want_to_reform_laws_that_harm.html

Quote:

When I want to emphasize a point on criminal justice reform, I lead with the data. There are huge racial gaps in arrests, convictions, and sentences. I’m shocked by the statistics and assume that’s also true of readers.

But according to a new study from Stanford University psychologists Rebecca C. Hetey and Jennifer L. Eberhardt, the stats-first approach to issues of race and incarceration isn’t effective—in fact, it’s potentially counterproductive.

Hetey and Eberhardt conducted two experiments, one in San Francisco and one in New York City. In the former, a white female researcher recruited 62 white voters from a train station to watch a video that flashed 80 mug shots of black and white male inmates.

Here’s where it gets interesting.

Unbeknownst to the participants, Hetey and Eberhardt had “manipulated the ratio of black to white inmates, to portray racial disparities in the prison population as more or less extreme.” Some participants saw a video in which 25 percent of the photos were of black inmates, approximating the actual distribution of inmates in California prisons, while others saw a video in which 45 percent of photos were black inmates.

After viewing the mug shots, participants were informed about California’s “three-strikes” law—which mandates harsh sentences on habitual offenders with three or more convictions—and asked to rate it on a scale of 1 (“not punitive enough”) to 7 (“too punitive”). Then participants were shown a petition to amend the law to make it less harsh, which they could sign if they wanted.

The results were staggering. More than half of the participants who viewed the “less-black” photographs agreed to sign the petition. But of those who viewed the “more-black” photographs, less than 28 percent agreed to sign. And punitiveness had nothing to do with it. The outcome was as true for participants who said the law was too harsh as it was for those who said it wasn’t harsh enough.

In which case, Hetey and Eberhardt hypothesized, there must be another explanation. Hence the New York City experiment, which tested the role of fear in driving support for harsh law enforcement policies. There, they found similar results using a variation on the San Francisco test.

Instead of photos, researchers gave demographic statistics on New York state’s inmates to a sampling of 164 white adult New York City residents. As with the previous experiment, one group received a “more-black” presentation—where the prison population was 60.3 percent black and 11.8 percent white, approximating the racial composition of inmates in New York City jails—while the other received a “less-black” variation, where the prison population was 40.3 percent black and 31.8 percent white (approximating that of the U.S. prison system writ large).

Advocates might want to try a different approach in their campaign to reform the criminal justice system.
Next, participants read that a federal judge had ruled NYC’s “stop-and-frisk” policy unconstitutional, and they were asked to answer several questions: “Given the ruling, how worried are you that crime will get out of control without the stop-and-frisk program?”; “How comforted were you knowing that people were being stopped as part of the stop-and-frisk program?”; “To maintain safety, how justified is it to use stop-and-frisk tactics?”; and “How necessary is it to have the stop-and-frisk program in place to keep crime low?”

After questioning, researchers gave participants a sample petition calling for an end to stop and frisk and asked them the following question: “If you had been approached by someone and asked to sign a petition like the one you just read, would you have signed it?” They had a choice of “yes” or “no.”

Again, participants in the “more-black” group were significantly less likely to endorse the petition (12 percent) than those in the “less-black” group (33 percent) even though most saw stop and frisk as a punitive measure.

The researchers also found that “crime concern” affected the willingness to sign the petition, as they wrote in their paper: “The more participants worried about crime, the less likely they were to say they would sign a petition to end the stop-and-frisk policy.”

Taken together, the conclusion was that “exposing people to extreme racial disparities in the prison population” led to a greater fear of crime and—at best—an unwillingness to support reform. For as much as you might be outraged by the vast racial disparities in marijuana arrests, for example, the general public might see the image of a young black man and hunker down in its support for marijuana prohibition.

It’s disheartening. But, if I can indulge my cynicism for a moment, it’s also not too surprising. From previous research, we know that—among white Americans—there’s a strong cognitive connection between “blackness” and criminality. “The mere presence of a black man,” note Eberhardt and other researchers in a 2004 paper, “can trigger thoughts that he is violent and criminal.”

Indeed, they continue, simply thinking about black Americans can lead people to see ambiguous actions as aggressive and to see harmless objects as weapons. When Michael Dunn saw 17-year-old Jordan Davis and his friends, he perceived a threat, imagined a gun, and opened fire, killing Davis. “I was the one who was victimized,” said Dunn in a phone call to his fiancée before his trial. It’s ludicrous, but it’s not dishonest. Like many other Americans, Dunn sees black people—and black men in particular—as a criminal threat.

What’s striking is this goes both ways. “In a crime-obsessed culture,” says the study, “simply thinking of crime can lead perceivers to conjure up images of Black Americans that ‘ready’ these perceivers to register and selectively attend to Black people who may be present in the actual physical environment.” In other words, the connection between blacks and crime is so tight that just thinking about crime—irrespective of the environment—triggers thoughts of black people in the same way that thinking of black people triggers thoughts of crime. And if you want a more disturbing thought, consider this: In one of the 2004 experiments, researchers found that exposing police officers to crime-related words followed by photos of black inmates “increases the likelihood that they will misremember a black face as more stereotypically black than it actually was.”

On top of this, there’s the stubborn persistence of false or faulty ideas. “Misperceptions, like zombies, are difficult to kill,” writes political scientist Brendan Nyhan, citing the health care reform “death panel” myth, which persists five years after Sarah Palin pushed it into the mainstream. In fact, they’re so durable that giving counterinformation can strengthen the original misperception. Confront vaccine-skeptics with evidence that vaccines don’t cause autism, and they may respond with greater skepticism.

The dynamic between race, crime, and criminal justice reform is similar. Tell people that blacks are overpoliced and over-represented in prison, and it triggers thoughts of crime, which leads to fear, which causes a backfire effect as people follow their fear and embrace the status quo of unfair, overly punitive punishments.

The immediate takeaway is that advocates might want to try different language (or a different approach) in their campaign to reform the criminal justice system. Racial injustice might be the main problem, but that doesn’t mean it’s the problem the broader public wants to solve.

To go a little deeper, however, I think this study further underscores the extent to which “blackness” retains its racial stigma, even as we move far away from the time of explicit anti-black attitudes. The dramatic progress of the past 50 years hasn’t dismantled America’s racial hierarchy or reshaped its form. The mythical “war on whites” notwithstanding, black Americans remain a disfavored class, subject to negative stereotypes, residential segregation, and rampant police violence.

Not that there aren’t bright spots. Large communities of black Americans succeed and thrive in ways that weren’t possible a few decades ago. But ask yourself, during downturns and recessions, why are blacks the worst off? Why do they fall furthest? Is it some unique pathology? Or is the racial caste system—and our subconscious racial attitudes—more durable than we want to believe?




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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: airclay]
    #23423681 - 07/08/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
The article was more-so posted to spearhead any ignorance in advance.

But you are the one who mentioned BLM and def inferred blame is to be had for the situation in general, which has led to this shooting.

Quote:

qman said:
Do you know what would help?  When the President of the United States doesn't go on TV to stir the pot and incite people based on his prejudgments of the situation!

He has blood on his hands be claiming some innocent black  was killed by a white person because of racism, in both cases he was WRONG!

Now, to have a honest discussion about police brutality and abuse of power, we need to make it non-racial based to have any credibility. White people are ALSO victims of police brutality, they are murdered by the police even more than blacks.

If you and your BLM mates want to make this a black vs white police issue, you're going to remain the big losers you currently are in the political world. Because at the end of the day, BLM isn't concerned about black lives, they're only concerned about protesting for political show.





Quote:

The retards in the BLM group listen to that crap and buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Most don't know the facts and details of the case, the media wants to stir the pot.








BLM started based on misinformation and lies, the fact that you ignore this reality is very troubling. The movement does not care about facts, only racial rhetoric.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: qman]
    #23423831 - 07/08/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people?  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineqman
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Posts: 34,927
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Re: Dallas shootings [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23423885 - 07/08/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do you think it's a lie that black people are treated differently than white people?  :shrug:




People are treated differently based on everything in life which includes age, sex, wealth, appearance, ethnicity, and the car they drive.

After a women sees the size of my penis, I get treated differently.


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