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Ezuma
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Sanguin3]
#23429076 - 07/10/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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this whole thing is exceedingly lame, not least because it will only make cops worse. Th individual shooter was an asshole, but I understand the distrust and outright hatred of the police force in some areas. Imo it's a sham because I do think cops are necessary, all the more reason to better train and monitor them imo.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: qman] 1
#23429078 - 07/10/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You act like unjustified shootings don't happen, when the news is filled with them. Denial ain't a river in Egypt, you know.
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qman
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Quote:
Sophistic Radiance said: You act like unjustified shootings don't happen, when the news is filled with them. Denial ain't a river in Egypt, you know.
Unjustified shootings do happen, that's why cops get convicted for it. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-south-carolina-trooper-pleads-guilty-after-shooting-unarmed-man-n538411
"the news is filled with them"
Actually not, Martin, Brown, Rice and others were concluded to be justified. Just because the talking heads and that idiot in the White House prejudge cases without facts, that doesn't make it true.
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: qman] 1
#23429094 - 07/10/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Convictions are nice, but those people are still dead.
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Sophistic Radiance
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It's like we've been saying for this whole thread-- the measures which exist to hold police accountable for their actions on duty are not sufficient to stop the current epidemic of racist police shootings. We need a political solution to this problem.
Metropolitan police forces need to be shaken up. Probes need to be conducted into racism, veteran officers found to be racist need to be fired with extreme prejudice, and hiring policies have to become more stringent to avoid hiring racist cops. Or, police need to be disarmed. Take your pick, the status quo is unacceptable.
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clock_of_omens
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Who gets to decide what is racist and how do we find out if they are racist? Do we ask them if they've said the word 'nigger' within the last ten years Mark Fuhrman style?
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: clock_of_omens]
#23429124 - 07/10/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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These are the questions we need to be asking at this point.
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Ezuma
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: clock_of_omens]
#23429125 - 07/10/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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clock_of_omens said: Who gets to decide what is racist and how do we find out if they are racist? Do we ask them if they've said the word 'nigger' within the last ten years Mark Fuhrman style?
while I'm mostly on sophist's side, I'm also curious how you would determine which cops were racist? surely they would, you know, hide it? I'm all for stricter standards on cops though, that seems to be the biggest problem really
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Ezuma]
#23429127 - 07/10/16 11:57 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Honestly, I can't answer that question. Social psychology is not my field of expertise.
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clock_of_omens
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Also in what universe does 123 black people having been shot by police this year out of 13% of a country with a population of >300million constitute an "epidemic"? And that's even granting that every one of those shootings was racist, which is nonsense.
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: clock_of_omens]
#23429134 - 07/10/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.
Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.
"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.
MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.
"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."
2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks. According to MacDonald, 12 percent of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police officers, while only four percent of black homicide deaths were the result of police officers.
"If we’re going to have a 'Lives Matter' anti-police movement, it would be more appropriately named "White and Hispanic Lives Matter,'" said MacDonald in her Hillsdale speech. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story. In August 2015, the ratio was seven-to-one of unarmed black men dying from police gunshots compared to unarmed white men; the ratio was six-to-one by the end of 2015. But MacDonald points out in The Marshall Project that looking at the details of the actual incidents that occurred paints a different picture:
The “unarmed” label is literally accurate, but it frequently fails to convey highly-charged policing situations. In a number of cases, if the victim ended up being unarmed, it was certainly not for lack of trying. At least five black victims had reportedly tried to grab the officer’s gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment. Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. And two individuals included in the Post’s “unarmed black victims” category were struck by stray bullets aimed at someone else in justified cop shootings. If the victims were not the intended targets, then racism could have played no role in their deaths.
In one of those unintended cases, an undercover cop from the New York Police Department was conducting a gun sting in Mount Vernon, just north of New York City. One of the gun traffickers jumped into the cop’s car, stuck a pistol to his head, grabbed $2,400 and fled. The officer gave chase and opened fire after the thief again pointed his gun at him. Two of the officer’s bullets accidentally hit a 61-year-old bystander, killing him. That older man happened to be black, but his race had nothing to do with his tragic death. In the other collateral damage case, Virginia Beach, Virginia, officers approached a car parked at a convenience store that had a homicide suspect in the passenger seat. The suspect opened fire, sending a bullet through an officer’s shirt. The cops returned fire, killing their assailant as well as a woman in the driver’s seat. That woman entered the Post’s database without qualification as an “unarmed black victim” of police fire.
MacDonald examines a number of other instances, including unarmed black men in San Diego, CA and Prince George's County, MD attempting to reach for a gun in a police officer's holster. In the San Diego case, the unarmed black man actually "jumped the officer" and assaulted him, and the cop shot the man since he was "fearing for his life." MacDonald also notes that there was an instance in 2015 where "three officers were killed with their own guns, which the suspects had wrestled from them."
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Greg Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to MacDonald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.
Despite the facts, the anti-police rhetoric of Black Lives Matter and their leftist sympathizers have resulted in what MacDonald calls the "Ferguson Effect," as murders have spiked by 17 percent among the 50 biggest cities in the U.S. as a result of cops being more reluctant to police neighborhoods out of fear of being labeled as racists. Additionally, there have been over twice as many cops victimized by fatal shootings in the first three months of 2016.
Anti-police rhetoric has deadly consequences.
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: qman]
#23429135 - 07/10/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Its more then likely that large portions of the police force are vehemently racist. Not unless your suggesting blacks hve a genetic predisposition to being shot by cops. Which would be silly, wouldnt it?
If those shootings are deemed unjustifiable, you would be correct, now please tell me what percentage of those shootings were unjustifiable?
You're not suggesting that a justified shooting has racial bias, are you?
Actually that is what Im suggesting, its what the numbers suggest even when you factor in the differing rates of crime. Prove they mean something else otherwise.
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: clock_of_omens]
#23429139 - 07/10/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You mean this year alone?
I already posted evidence that unjustified police shootings involve Black victims more frequently than white, at those rates I do think it constitutes an epidemic warranting of a special response. We can't just accept living in a country where black people are 4x more likely to get shot for any or no reason, that's not my country.
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: clock_of_omens]
#23429140 - 07/10/16 12:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't like the over use of the word epidemic -which the media is overly fond of- but I think it's clear there is a problem. Even if the problem isn't that any of these cops are racist -doubtful- but simply under-trained, or that black people just happen to be on average poorer or more criminally inclined and so come into conflict with cops more, any of these scenarios presents a problem, one which needs to b addressed imo
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Plain
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Quote:
Sophistic Radiance said: You mean this year alone?
I already posted evidence that unjustified police shootings involve Black victims more frequently than white, at those rates I do think it constitutes an epidemic warranting of a special response. We can't just accept living in a country where black people are 4x more likely to get shot for any or no reason, that's not my country.
Look at my stats
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Plain]
#23429147 - 07/10/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok, if you think BLM has got the approach wrong, why don't you come up with something better.
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
Sophistic Radiance said: A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014 (PLOS)
Quote:
The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average. Furthermore, the results of multi-level modeling show that there exists significant heterogeneity across counties in the extent of racial bias in police shootings, with some counties showing relative risk ratios of 20 to 1 or more. Finally, analysis of police shooting data as a function of county-level predictors suggests that racial bias in police shootings is most likely to emerge in police departments in larger metropolitan counties with low median incomes and a sizable portion of black residents, especially when there is high financial inequality in that county. There is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.
what a load of bullshit
whites are killed twice as often as black in this country, but considering that blacks only make up 13% of the population it speaks volumes for the disproportionate amount of crimes committed by blacks so if a black man is a retard willing to go out and commit a crime and upon getting caught, fight with the cops, then just like anyone else, they deserve what they get. I dont agree with coddling criminals of any color
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23429152 - 07/10/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're just like qman, you couldn't even finish the paragraph before reacting.
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
Sophistic Radiance said: You're just like qman, you couldn't even finish the paragraph before you reacted.
it started as bullshit and ended as bullshit of 'well, we just dont have the info'
so yeah, I did read it
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Re: Dallas protest shooting, 2 officers shot [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23429160 - 07/10/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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No. The info is there. You are in denial.
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