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OfflineRAWthbard
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Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom.
    #23418268 - 07/06/16 08:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I have been toying with the idea of doing my own grow for awhile. When I finally took the leap I ran into unforeseen problems. Any advice is appreciated.

To start with I used the PFtek. From what I have read I had extremely slow growth. I believe it has been over two moths since inoculation. I have heard that this may be because of a lack of moisture. Anyway I thought this could have been a blessing because I ended up having to move. After the move and unpacking my computer crashed and that further delayed my question.

So my jars never seemed to get completely colonized. They were beginning to get close before the move when I started seeing some yellow. Some of the yellow has turned to brown, other places had just became a more solid yellow creating a marble look. Some of the white myceliam seems to almost avoid completely colonizing parts of some jars. One of the jars had kinda a bad milk smell that seems to be dissipating. I have twelve jars in total. 4 look really bad, 4 look a little iffy(one of these actually the milk smell), and 4 look pretty decent. 2 seem to have mushroom growth.

What should I do? Should I birth them asap and check for smell, trow them out and start over, or a combination of the two? Birth the 4, or 8 and trow the rest out? Thank you so much for the help.



These are not all the jars and one of the pics is a double post. Sorry. Thanks again for the help.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: RAWthbard]
    #23418810 - 07/06/16 11:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah the majority of those are bacterial...

1st looks fine.
2nd looks hella bacterial. I'd toss it.
3rd is bacterial. You could maybe risk it and fruit it.
4th is fine.
5th is hella contamintated, toss it.
6th is bacterial. Refer to 3rd.
7th is the same as 2
8th is contaminated, toss it
9 and 10 refer to 3
11 refer to 5


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OfflineRAWthbard
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23421239 - 07/07/16 07:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That helps a lot, Thanks.


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InvisibleMushiez
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: RAWthbard]
    #23427163 - 07/09/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

dunk the healthy ones in cold water and spawn to pasteurized coir outside and you might get a fruit or two if you wish to salvage experiment


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Invisiblegoop
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mushiez]
    #23427210 - 07/09/16 05:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I've birthed jars with contams and washed off the contamination and fruited in a quarantined terrarium with some success.


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whats this man saying?


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InvisibleMushiez
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: goop]
    #23427263 - 07/09/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

goop said:
I've birthed jars with contams and washed off the contamination and fruited in a quarantined terrarium with some success.




they often work well in coco trays in sgfc after surgery and crumbling :lol:


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OfflineRAWthbard
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: RAWthbard]
    #23428492 - 07/10/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

So the thing about contams is they will not fruit? I thought it was a health issue. I have tossed a majority of them. I am dunking four of the healthiest now. 

"spawn to pasteurized coir," What do you mean by this?
Again, thanks for the help and info.


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InvisibleMushiez
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: RAWthbard]
    #23428511 - 07/10/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RAWthbard said:
So the thing about contams is they will not fruit? I thought it was a health issue. I have tossed a majority of them. I am dunking four of the healthiest now. 

"spawn to pasteurized coir," What do you mean by this?
Again, thanks for the help and info.




there is no guarantee that a contaminated cake will fruit, though there is a chance

if there's mold, it has to be tossed to prevent contaminant spores getting everywhere

if there's bacteria, you can intervene and remove infected regions. The healthy myc that remains has its own immune system and can overtake contaminant borders of bacteria

Your cakes have enough health myc to fruit on their own as a cake so you need not break them down to pasteurized coir. Pasteurized means the core temp of the coconut coir has been heated to 160F for an hour or more.

What you've got on the bottom of your jars is metabolite wetspots, bacteria that was eaten up by the myc

If you want to toss them, you can. But if you want to salvage the usable myc in the cakes, birth them and rise well under cold water and with an alcohol wiped knife, remove the questionable areas taking care not to spread it around

If the region is soft or milky or bad smelling in any way, you will either need to toss it, or cut the entire bottom half of the cake off with an alcohol wipe or boiled knife

After contam regions are removed at wide margin, you can dunk them and attempt to fruit it

Be sure to fruit all possible contaminants in a separate fruiting environment or fruiting chamber to avoid cross contamination


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mushiez]
    #23428860 - 07/10/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

ugh, so much :facepalm:

you dont need to pasteurize coir and thats not metabolites its bacteria haven.
dont cut out bacteria, it makes no sense its fused into the myc.
and yes contamed subs will fruit.
just disregard everything that last dude said.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23429144 - 07/10/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Yeah the majority of those are bacterial...

1st looks fine.
2nd looks hella bacterial. I'd toss it.
3rd is bacterial. You could maybe risk it and fruit it.
4th is fine.
5th is hella contamintated, toss it.
6th is bacterial. Refer to 3rd.
7th is the same as 2
8th is contaminated, toss it
9 and 10 refer to 3
11 refer to 5



2,5,7(same as 2),8,11 are all garbage

The mycelium has already hit the border and it didn't take it over. That shits hella bacterial. Coir does not need pasteurization, and heating to 160 for an hour is kinda too much for substrates that do need it like hpoo. Try 140-150 for an hour.

Yeah uh the only one that I'd even consider surgery with is 2/7. Why does he need an alcohol soaked knife? A regular knife would work just fine.

Be sure to fruit in a separate container to reduce what exactly? Every chamber sees contaminations, and healthy cakes don't just turn green because of it.. I feel like we just told you this because fear mongering about environmental contaminations will deter people from growing who think that they get tons of contaminations from the environment.. even after they've bleach bombed their room (which I've never done in all my years)

People can leave for a few days come back and only one cake is covered in green. The others actually can fight it off, because they're healthy. Just saying.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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InvisibleMushiez
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23432808 - 07/11/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Growers need to reduce contam vectors at every step from incolulation to fruiting. That's just how mycology is. If people don't like it, they should go outside and do something else.

Not pasteurizing coir is retarded and you can get away with it plenty of times but it will catch up to you eventually because nearly all those bricks are from sri lanka and pack pressed in high humidity climate outdoors with trich spores everywhere in the coco

Advising against pasteurization of any bulk sub is simply unwise


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mushiez]
    #23432839 - 07/11/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

lol, trich spores are killed way before pasteurization temps.
facts are it doesnt matter if you sterilize,pasteurize or just bucket tek your coir. it has no microbes to save anyway.
This is pretty basic knowledge, the bucket tek is just as popular today as the day it came because its all coir ever needs.

no one would argue pasteurization on manure or anything but CVG.


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InvisibleMushiez
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: spacechildo]
    #23432930 - 07/11/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

bucket boil is pasteurization if it hits 160 which it certainly does, and holds it an hr

it's not like shit where you need a 20 inch comost therm and to sit there all night with turkey bags

penicilium spore death is 60 C

pasteurization is 70 C

that extra 10 c is for sleeping tight at night knowing your clean spawn won't be wasted


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mushiez]
    #23432945 - 07/11/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

that's not how it works. time + temps is what matters when killing mold spores. 130F for 30mins kills most spores, thats way less than 60c.
bucket tek often starts out too hot, which is why manure fails in the bucket. its NOT proper pasteurization. Proper pasteurization is 60-90mins at 60-70c.

try actually growing mushrooms instead of reading wiki pages, gets you way further in this hobby! :super:


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InvisibleMushiez
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: spacechildo]
    #23432949 - 07/11/16 07:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lol you have no gallery so don't speak

130 F is inadequate

still on that high horse of yours


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: spacechildo]
    #23432959 - 07/11/16 07:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Coir has been done A LOT without any heat treatment at all. I mean they package it at extremely high temperatures, so it comes out of the package sterile..

Quote:

eatyualive said:
so i had to double check today.

this is what i am documenting now.

pasteurized coir
1 texas orange cap
3 AA+ clone

Untreated coir
2 texas orange cap
5 AA+ clones

and here is control tub AA+ 3 and 4.



more to come.



Quote:

eatyualive said:
don't have time to update this just yet. timing was off. i had to throw out about half the containers due to life happening just now. but flushed half of them. ill pick up the tests later.





Quote:

filthyknees said:
bump..



all untreated. dropped three coir bricks and six quarts verm into a tote and added 4 quarts warm water per brick&two verm quarts as per damion5050's tek ratio.

ten minutes to expand everything, break it up a couple minutes and spawned away.

used a 1/4 inch casing and holes stuffed medium at spawning, total neglect for two weeks and this is what I get.

finally see how easy it can be :cookiemonster: the first tubs harvest couldn't fit on a standard nesco american harvest :thumbup: :awesomenod:




All you gotta do is search untreated coir with 2 years or later and TCs.


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (07/12/16 12:57 AM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mushiez]
    #23432962 - 07/11/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What I'm saying is backed up by my experience which also seems to be the experience of most the regulars on the shroomery.

You on the other hand have a reputation of quoting wikipedia and having to opt out of ratings because others have raised concerns regarding the advice you give to noobs that are here to learn.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23432969 - 07/11/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

MadSeason that's even on non-heat treated coir!
sterilizing coir seems to give better results than pasteurization or bucket tek'ing them,
the excess heat treatment breaking down the lignin making food more accessible.


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OfflineRAWthbard
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Re: Should I keep these? First grow with problems. Need some wisdom. [Re: spacechildo]
    #23435909 - 07/12/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Im sure there is a lot of good information here, but you guys have my head spinning. I'm fruiting five and am going to see what happens. If it does not work out I will just start over and be far more careful with my decontamination procedure. I'm sure the contamination occurred during my open air inoculation. Thank you for your help and you all certainly know more than me. Whoever said this was going to be easy right?


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